Poll results - HARDWARE RELIABILITY OF PS2, XBOX, AND GC

[lendelin]

The Q asked in the three polls: Did you have a serious problem with your [PS2, Xbox, GC] hardware?

As of now, the results are as follows:

PS2
Serious problems: 24 (52%)
No serious problems: 22 (48%)
Total # of cases: 46

Xbox
Serious problems: 7 (29%)
No serious problems: 17 (71%)
Total # of cases: 24

GameCube:
Serious problems: 2 (5%)
No serious problems: 37 (95%)
Total # of cases: 39

Total # of cases (all three polls): 109

Statistical limitations, strenghts and results:

1) Participants weren't randomly chosen, which results in an increased likelihood of bias for all socio-demographic data. The same bias is reduced for the target population, however, it is still very likely.

2) Because of 1) the poll isn't representative of the general population and/or the target population of game system owners, therefore the poll isn't generalizable.

3) The number of cases is low. However, a difference of means test which is appropriate for case numbers from around 25 to 100 showed across the groups and for the pair of groups within the target population statistical significant difference. The differences found exclude population difference based on sampling error. However, the commonly agreed upon statistical significance level of .5 cannot be tested due to the low number of cases.

4) The poll gives certainly a trend of hardware reliability. The found differences between the three systems are 1) substantial, and 2) not coincidental. The PS2 is certainly much more prone to perceived hardware problems than the Xbox and the GameCube. The qualitative posts for the PS2 which explained at least some of the problems, indicate clearly more serious hardware problems compared to the two other systems. The GameCube proved to be by far the most reliable piece of hardware.

6) Although the polling question wasn't specified (meaning of "serious", hardware") and didn't distinguish between different kinds of problems, this doesn't distort the trend across the systems at all. Potential misunderstandings, exaggerations, different assumptions, bad feelings for a specific system etc. are present for all three polls. It is unreasonable to assume that owners of a specific system are more intelligent, hate another system more, and/or are more or less prone to the above mentioned perception problems.

7) There is a bias in favor of the PS2. The PS2 was one year earlier released than the GC and the Xbox. Hardware problems are corrected over time for the subsequent versions of a system. If we assume that early childhood flaws of a system are corrected, the more recently released systems are disadvantaged. The fact that the oldest system, the PS2, turned out to be the most problematic piece of hardware by far, underlines the overall trend.

8) The target population is part of a videogame website dedicated primarily to video game collectors. It is reasonable to assume that videogame collectors are over-represented in the sample compared to the general population. Videogame collectors in general have experience and an incentive to treat game hardware carefully and appropriately. The findings of a PS2 prone to serious hardware problems is therefore even more troublesome. (unless we assume that the more careless non-collectors are clearly over-represented in the "serious problems" category of each system.)

9) Two of the systems (PS2, Xbox) have DVD and CD play capability, while the GC is only able to play game discs. The troublesome findings for the PS2 still hold up. 1) Compared to the Xbox, the PS2 still proved to be more unreliable, 2) If a combo ‘game player/DVD player' is offered as an incentive to sell a system and in all likelihood results in more sales, problems with the DVD player as part of the system can certainly count as a serious hardware problem.


Well, draw your own conclusions. The polls together with accumulating reports from friends, game mags, and store employees make the problem-ridden PS2 hardware certainly much more than just a rumor or a distorted picture of anecdotes, in my opinion. It's one significant step above anecdotal evidence for sure.

Hey, thanks for participating! 109 is much more than I expected, and statistically you can certainly work with such a number of cases. Pretty bad results for the PS2, eh?

[Shadysmurf]

Actually.. for that to be an accurate poll you would need to poll the same amount of people for each system, and the "serious" hardware damage on the ps2 is 9/10 times Disc Read Error while inall is a big problem it usaully just means the voltage is off, the lazer postiting is off, or you need need a whole new lazer and is not that hard for sony to fix.. Serious Damage sould be described as needing a new powerpack, a harddrive crash, a controller port breaking etc..

[IntvGene]

7) There is a bias in favor of the PS2. The PS2 was one year earlier released than the GC and the Xbox. Hardware problems are corrected over time for the subsequent versions of a system. If we assume that early childhood flaws of a system are corrected, the more recently released systems are disadvantaged. The fact that the oldest system, the PS2, turned out to be the most problematic piece of hardware by far, underlines the overall trend.

Isn't this the opposite? The PS2 has been around the longest and is the oldest. If I bought a PS2 on day one, and Sony fixed it free of charge, I still would vote YES for "Did you have a serious problem with your PS2 hardware?"

Also, have you accounted for the general wear and tear on a system? If the PS2 has been around the longest, shouldn't we expect it to have the most problems? Since it has been around the longest, and has the most number of systems out there, should we also expect more problems from multiple users? If there are more PS2s, and naturally, more used PS2s re-sold to users again, I don't think that you are measuring accurately "equal system use" between them. PS2s would have experienced more use in the same time.

[lendelin]

Actually.. for that to be an accurate poll you would need to poll the same amount of people for each system.

Nah, in every poll you have variations in the number of cases, and different numbers for each variable. If people fill out a questionnaire, they get tired at the end of it, and just don't fill out the last couple of Qs. The same number of cases isn't a reliability problem.

and the "serious" hardware damage on the ps2 is 9/10 times Disc Read Error while inall is a big problem it usaully just means the voltage is off, the lazer postiting is off, or you need need a whole new lazer and is not that hard for sony to fix.

I'd reagrd this as serious hardware probs, if it falls out of warranty...you have to pay for it.

[lendelin]

[quote="IntvGene"]

7) There is a bias in favor of the PS2. The PS2 was one year earlier released than the GC and the Xbox. Hardware problems are corrected over time for the subsequent versions of a system. If we assume that early childhood flaws of a system are corrected, the more recently released systems are disadvantaged. The fact that the oldest system, the PS2, turned out to be the most problematic piece of hardware by far, underlines the overall trend.

Isn't this the opposite? The PS2 has been around the longest and is the oldest. If I bought a PS2 on day one, and Sony fixed it free of charge, I still would vote YES for "Did you have a serious problem with your PS2 hardware?"

quote]

your point isn't bad. The longer a system is on the market, the more people have a prob with it. However, doesn't the early childhood flaws of systems outweigh the life time probs of a system? Imagine you'd have asked the same Qs one year after the PS2 release, the GC owners and XBox owners also only one year after the release, would you seriously expect a different result??

Since it has been around the longest, and has the most number of systems out there, should we also expect more problems from multiple users?

See above...and...these are percentages! Your argument only holds if you assume that there are more PS2s sold and resold than XBoxes and GCs. I seriously doubt it, on the other hand...I din't have any data about it.

[jonjandran]

Also, have you accounted for the general wear and tear on a system? If the PS2 has been around the longest, shouldn't we expect it to have the most problems? Since it has been around the longest, and has the most number of systems out there, should we also expect more problems from multiple users? If there are more PS2s, and naturally, more used PS2s re-sold to users again, I don't think that you are measuring accurately "equal system use" between them. PS2s would have experienced more use in the same time.

The problem is you are saying " more use " when you haven't even determined the amount of use each unit received.

The people in the gamecube poll might have used their gamecubes 10 hours a day and the PS2 people only 1 hour a day.

That's why with ALL polls they are subjective and not truly scientific.
But you have to admit they work and help to give most people a good guage on what to buy and when to buy it , etc . ( For instance after reading the PS2 poll most people wouldn't risk buying an older PS2 , and for good reason )

All in all , I say it was a poll well done........

[Sylentwulf]

skimmed the topic.... heres my biggest problem (don't know if it's been addressed, so don't hurt me)

Gamecube versus PS2

I like both systems, and I'm not picking on the gamecube, but the fact IS, that I'm sure each PS2 unit out there get's a LOT more play than each gamecube unit out there (Sure, not each and eveery one, but overall) There just aren't as many games out for the gamecube.

AND, now that F-zero GX has caused problems, I'm sure over the next 6 months, the amount of gamecube errors people are going to have will probably rise QUITE drastically since nintendo has even admitted the problem, it must be pretty widespread.

Of course, the PS2 Hardware IS VERY INFERIOR in quality, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying, that gamecubes numbers will probably rise due to F-zero, and even if they don't the hardware isn't pushed nearly as much, causing less problems, thus evening out the curve a little bit

[lendelin]

Isn't this the opposite? The PS2 has been around the longest and is the oldest.

...additionally, if the life time of a system would be the most important reason for reported hardware flaws and problems, how would we explain the striking difference between the GC and XBox which were released around the same time??

[jonjandran]

I like both systems, and I'm not picking on the gamecube, but the fact IS, that I'm sure each PS2 unit out there get's a LOT more play than each gamecube unit out there (Sure, not each and eveery one, but overall) There just aren't as many games out for the gamecube.

I think you're looking at that from an adult perspective.

I have 2 kids and almost every system made, and the only one they play is the Gamecube. Several hours a day if they can.
And I know a lot of younger people (8-14) with PS2's and Gamecubes, and they play their Gamecubes a LOT more.

So I guess it depends on how you look at it .

[zmeston]

N/A

[RoboticParanoia]

AND, now that F-zero GX has caused problems, I'm sure over the next 6 months, the amount of gamecube errors people are going to have will probably rise QUITE drastically since nintendo has even admitted the problem, it must be pretty widespread.

GX is causing problems? Nintendo has admitted to it? Is this info on the Web somewhere?

-- Z.

That's what I'm wondering as well.

[lendelin]

That's why with ALL polls they are subjective and not truly scientific.

Nah, they are scientific, and one thing is always subjective, the interpretation of the results; but this goes for qualitative analyses as well, you have the real world phenomena, and then you interpret them as objectively as you could according to scientific standards.

Ideally this would be a questionnaire with 50 or so items. You could ask for age, gender, all kinds of socio-demographic data. Then the time of purchase of a system, when the prob occured, what kind of a prob (offering 6 probs and 'others'), how long someone plays on average, if the system is used by someone else (kids, with age), ...and so on, you had varaiables a plenty.

THEN you could run sophisticated regression amnalyses with around 500 cases in total, and you could determine which factor/s (playtime, age of system, age of palyer, ....) has/have themost impact on hardware flaws, even broken down according to different problems and at the same time controlling for all the other potential factors. The possibiliries are plenty, it would be paradise.

However, this is a straightforward YES/NO poll which ignores all these different possible variables. But that's not bad. We have polls of approval rates of politicians, simple percentages, without getting into heavy reasoning/reason problems.

The limit of the poll is it's non-generalizability to the entire population of the US, but it was never intended as such ...and ideally we would have 300 cases which makes it more reliable.

...but was this poll undoubtedly gives you is a TREND which is valid for system owners who frequent this website and were willing to participate in this poll. The results are so clearcut...it's unavodable to see a clear trend unless you close your eyes.

The thing is...youi have to stay within the limits of the poll. You can't argue this way or the other about aspects the poll just doesn't cover. It might be that playtime plays a big role for hardware flaws, but then, can we assume that the PS2 is more often played than other systems? It might be that for average playtime for all systems would show no difference in hardware flaws. But then, wouldn't we expect from a system that it works properly very often played?

Reasonable is to argue that there are factors which question the results, and good points were made, and I responded to them. But to be honest, I can't see a single factor which would inherently bias one system, or a factor which would tell me that tthe results are merely a statistical coincidence.

...but then I have often overlooked things in my life although I tried hard, so, there might be something which questions the entiore poll result.

[spoon]

I believe anotherfluke posted a topic about it around 2 weeks back. From what I understand, Nintendo will fix it free of charge. If it is under warranty or not.

Link to topic
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/view...light=fzero+gx

[Anonymous]

I believe anotherfluke posted a topic about it around 2 weeks back. From what I understand, Nintendo will fix it free of charge. If it is under warranty or not.

For the record, NO, F Zero GX does NOT cause problems with the Gamecube. What it does is expose an internal flaw in a few (very small number, we're talking hundreds) Gamecube systems because of the way it uses the hardware. There was a similar issue with Star Wars: Rogue Leader locking up on the Hoth level, and Eternal Darkness stuttering during cut scenes.

Keep in mind that the games do not CAUSE the issue, they only expose it. And I'd be more than willing to bet that Sony and MS have similar issues, but we don't have anybody who works there to tell us about it.

Sorry Zach, I doubt you'll ever find this info on the web or in a verifiable news source. But they are real issues, trust me.

[zmeston]

N/A

[Anonymous]

With ED, the method that Silicon Knights used to stream their movies (I believe they pulled data and the movie info at the same time) taxed the drives in the GC, and the models that had the dirty diode in them tended to breathe their last while attempting such a feat. With SW:RL:RSII (whew!), the game was designed on prototype hardware (it was used as a demo back when the Dolphin was a Card in a PC), and some issue with the way the final hardware was done led to a part overheating more than expected. I don't know specifically what the deal is with F Zero, aside from it stems from the programmers eeking performance out of the system.

This is all 'hearsay' of course, and I make no official claims on behalf of Nintendo, nor do the sources I hear this information from. To get any more specific, I'd have to speak to people that I don't normally have access to without a reason, and I probably wouldn't post the info on a public board anyways (sorry DP).

[SoulBlazer]

Somebody else posted that Nintendo was willing to fix these 'defective' GC's free of charge. Is that true?

[jonjandran]

That's why with ALL polls they are subjective and not truly scientific.

Nah, they are scientific, and one thing is always subjective, the interpretation of the results; but this goes for qualitative analyses as well, you have the real world phenomena, and then you interpret them as objectively as you could according to scientific standards.

I disagree . In order to be truly scientific there would have to be to many questions asked. There are just to many variables as we have seen from just these 3 polls you've taken.

For instance : How much was each system played ? What version is it ? What kind of environment was it kept in ? Was it sufficiently cooled? Did you use 3rd party accessories ? Did you use it mainly for games or dvd's ? Was it ever dropped ? Was a liquid ever spilled on it ( cat piss ? ) ? ETc , etc , etc , etc,

No polls aren't very scientific. Science looks for the facts and with polls there is just no way to get All the facts. Polls are very subjective.

[Anonymous]

@SoulBlazer - Yeah, that was me. If your Nintendo randomly restarts (stops, goes back to the title screen for F Zero) while playing F Zero, then yes, you can call Nintendo and they will fix your Gamecube.

[hydr0x]

of course these results are not scientific in any way, BUT they clearly show that there are differences between the consoles and that it seems to be in favor of the gamecube/nintendo

my question is, would you guys participate in a real survey? i mean, it really shouldn't be a problem to make a more scientific survey that has results which really show something