Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 89

Thread: Would Super Mario Bros 3 be possible on the 7800?

  1. #1
    Insert Coin (Level 0)
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    54
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default Would Super Mario Bros 3 be possible on the 7800?

    They say this system wasn't really pushed, so do you guys think that the 7800 was able to handle a game like this? Oh using the pokey chip for sound and a nes/sms like controller for gameplay.

    I see that the 7800 had a stronger CPU.

  2. #2
    Alex (Level 15) InsaneDavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Silicon Valley, USA
    Posts
    7,366
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    24
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    13
    Thanked in
    12 Posts

    Default

    No. The 7800 ProSystem is a great console that has some great exclusives but come on.

  3. #3
    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Hurricane, WV
    Posts
    7,749
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Xbox LIVE
    boatofcar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitdude View Post
    and a nes/sms like controller for gameplay.
    You mean like this?


    I see that the 7800 had a stronger CPU.
    Both systems used the 6502.

    Dude, the 7800 couldn't even handle the scrolling in SMB1, let alone a game that pushed the NES to its limits.

    EDIT: Here's a thread I started two and a half years ago that sums up all the NES vs. 7800 questions you might have.
    Last edited by boatofcar; 12-28-2007 at 11:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Great Puma (Level 12) Bratwurst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,461
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    13
    Thanked in
    10 Posts

    Default

    Now hold on gentlemen- both platforms were conceived and manufactured around the same time frame. 82-84. Arguably the 7800 had an R&D advantage since it was developed a little later.

    The NES looked rosy in comparison mostly because of its popularity. More companies worked on it, more technical tricks were figured out, it had a longer run.

    Put that behind the 7800's hardware and an SMB3 facsimile surely would have followed.

  5. #5
    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    5,880
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Default

    I'd say the biggest question isn't if the 7800 is superior hardware wise, but if the 7800's cartridges could physically fit such things as the mappers many Nintendo games such as SMB3 used to enhance the NES's capabilities. Just looking at the specs of each system, I'd say most individuals would give the edge to the 7800.

    If the 7800 could've benefited from such enhancements, I'd say it had a chance. But 7800 carts are much smaller than a NES cart, and you already have to have a Pokey in there if we're talking about matching the NES. So I'd say the biggest question would be if the 7800 can take advantage of such additions in the cartridge like the NES could after already having the addition of a Pokey sound chip in order to expand their memory capabilities.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 12-19-2011 at 02:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Bell (Level 8) 7th lutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,798
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts

    Default

    As an owner of booth systems, the nes is stronger then the 7800.

    I have to say the nes was not capable of doing Super Mario 3 without the MMC3 chip. The Nes depended on extra chips in cartridges. Those chips made the nes better in capabilities then it is without the chips. The MMC chips helping the nes is like roids to professional athletes. The chips performance enhancers for nes games. Without the different types of MMC chips, the nes wouldn't be able to do 1024k games. That is the size of a 1991 genesis game. That is the roid analogy comes in.

    The Atari 7800 didn't have much in extra chips for improving scrolling and other great stuff like the nes had. Sounds chips does not have much of an impact as graphic chips and increasing the size the cartridge capabilities at the same time.

    The 7800 did backswitching to an extent with a games going 144k. The 7800 was capable of doing 512k games, but the owners of Atari were to cheap to do it.

    The 7800's problem was the system was not built with enough rom and ram inside the system.

    The Atari 7800 also was at a disadvantage of starting to have games released in 1986 instead of 1984. That is a big game of system that was only released due to the Tramiel family seeing how well the nes was selling. They prevented the 7800 to be realeased in 1984 despite being ready.

    That is why there was 1984 games being released in 1986 for the 7800. Tramiel only care about making money without putting money into something. The 7800 would have been better in graphics due to the programmers being in middle of creating games for a system that is 2 years old.

    The other problem was the Tramiel family had atari supporting 3 game consoles at the same time. The atari XEGS was a computer acting like a game console. Tramiel was putting money into the XEGS and the 2600 at time they should've been give the money for R&D to the 7800. The XEGS was weaker in graphics then the 7800 was.

    The tramiel family was having Atari games competing against other Atari game systems. That does not make sense from a bussiness standpoint.

    We don' know the entire capabilities over the 7800 since the Tramiel family was cheapskates and didn't have clue on how to run a video game company by having 3 systems compete against each other.

    The chances are the 7800 is unlikely to pull of Super Mario with advanced technology coming from chips, but we don't know for sure. The 7800 might of have been able to pull of Super Mario Brothers due to how good Commando was for the 7800.

  7. #7
    ServBot (Level 11) swlovinist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Gamers Paradise
    Posts
    3,607
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    swlovinist

    Default

    Sometimes, I think the Atari Fans are smoking some good stuff. I too, love the 7800, but of the three(SMS, NES, and 7800), the 7800 was by far the weakest on scrolling games. Dont get me wrong, on pure sprite based games, the 7800 could hold its own. I know that "on paper" it was a superior system, but on paper and reality are two different things. Mario 3 on the 7800 would look like shit and play like shit.
    Would you like to know more about collecting video games? Check out my extensive Youtube channel! https://www.youtube.com/user/swlovinist

  8. #8
    Pretzel (Level 4) miaandjohnrule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    846
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    OriginalRope

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swlovinist View Post
    Sometimes, I think the Atari Fans are smoking some good stuff. I too, love the 7800, but of the three(SMS, NES, and 7800), the 7800 was by far the weakest on scrolling games. Dont get me wrong, on pure sprite based games, the 7800 could hold its own. I know that "on paper" it was a superior system, but on paper and reality are two different things. Mario 3 on the 7800 would look like shit and play like shit.
    That pretty much sums it up.

  9. #9
    Apple (Level 5) MrRoboto19XX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,121
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    St Aspartame

    Default

    While I fully agree with the idea that the Tramiel family was the primary reason for the 7800's failure (Since they decided to hold it, and therefore ensured Nintendo's market saturation in a way) we've also got to remember that the NES was technically released before the 7800 should have been. After all, the Famicom was released in 1983, and some of the 1983-84 games were among the first released for the NES in America.

    I love Atari, and if you ask me from 1978 to 1982 they were king in my book, but I've got to wonder if by even 84 the magic was just gone in several ways.

    Today I don't think we could see an SMB3 clone on the 7800 even with some really impressive homebrew. However, if the thing had just a little bit more time...


    ...well then we may have seen something to the quality of a later Master System game. Poor thing just didn't have much going for it. Still, I've got to say I do love my 7800, and nothing beats a good game of Food Fight.

    Imagine if Atari had said yes to Nintendo's offer...
    Welcome to Macintosh.


  10. #10
    Apple (Level 5) MrRoboto19XX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,121
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Xbox LIVE
    St Aspartame

    Default

    Double Post... Bah.
    Last edited by MrRoboto19XX; 12-29-2007 at 10:21 AM.
    Welcome to Macintosh.


  11. #11
    Strawberry (Level 2) tomaitheous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    446
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitdude View Post
    I see that the 7800 had a stronger CPU.
    You mean because it's the CMOS revision to the original 6502? They both run at the same speed and the same performance. The NES is faster in the sense that it doesn't halt the CPU while processing sprites on screen and such. Not to mention most 7800 games I've seen run in 160x240 mode.

  12. #12
    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Hurricane, WV
    Posts
    7,749
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Xbox LIVE
    boatofcar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7th lutz View Post
    The XEGS was weaker in graphics then the 7800 was.
    I don't believe that. Look at the XEGS version of Mario Bros. vs the 7800.

  13. #13
    Bell (Level 8) 7th lutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,798
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boatofcar View Post
    I don't believe that. Look at the XEGS version of Mario Bros. vs the 7800.
    It does look like the xegs version is closer to the arcade version in graphics.

    I think Commando is a better comparision, since it one the better games from a graphic standpoint.

    I own the 7800 version of Commando and it looks better then the Prototype of Commando for the XEGS. The XEGS proto was the final version. Here is the link: http://www.atariprotos.com/8bit/soft...o/commando.htm

  14. #14
    Kirby (Level 13) j_factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Oakland, CA (representin')
    Posts
    5,231
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Super Mario Bros. 3 wouldn't be possible on the 7800, but it wasn't possible on the NES either -- hence the need for a chip in the cartridge.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheShawn
    Please highlight what a douche I am.

  15. #15
    Cherry (Level 1) xaer0knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    USA->WI->Kenosha
    Posts
    216
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7th lutz View Post
    It does look like the xegs version is closer to the arcade version in graphics.

    I think Commando is a better comparision, since it one the better games from a graphic standpoint.

    I own the 7800 version of Commando and it looks better then the Prototype of Commando for the XEGS. The XEGS proto was the final version. Here is the link: http://www.atariprotos.com/8bit/soft...o/commando.htm
    i would have to say.. WHOA that is awesome work on a 7800. Pretty great for its time.
    In the free/libre software
    movement, we develop
    software that respects users'
    freedom, so we can and you can
    escape from software that
    doesn't --Richard Stallman

  16. #16
    ServBot (Level 11) Aswald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,731
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Default

    With some kind of cartridge-chip enhancement, probably yes. Just like a number of NES games.


    The single biggest problem with the 7800 was the way it was marketed. When it first appeared in the video game magazines around mid-1984 (I still have them), we were thrilled by the pictures of games like Joust and Desert Falcon. Xevious was a recent enough game, and so the initial lineup was pretty impressive...for 1984...especially if you didn't have the 5200 versions.

    And that was the real problem. Ms. Pac-Man, Robotron: 2084, and a couple of others were better on the 7800, but absolutely NOT enough so to make you want to abandon the 5200 versions.

    Worse yet, the 7800, even in the more heavily populated area I used to live in, didn't really appear until 1988. Those four years made a tremendous difference; even Xevious was aged. Most of the 5200 games were recent for the time, as were the ColecoVision and 2600 games. That was a tremendous plus in their favor. But the 7800? That "oh, man, cool, that great new(ish) arcade game is on that home system" just wasn't there.

    As a result of this and several other things, the 7800 got off to a weak start. Those idiot Tramiels never properly supported the 7800, and so it never was really fully utilized. All of this, in such an industry, is interconnected.
    Last edited by Aswald; 12-29-2007 at 02:11 PM.
    Interesting stuff, here (COMPLETELY unbiased opinion, hehhehheh):

    http://griswaldterrastone.deviantart.com/

  17. #17
    Insert Coin (Level 0)
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    54
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Default

    With a extra chip , I also believe the 7800 could have pulled it off.

    For one most of the games on the system were first generation and even those titles weren't pushed.

    Really nothing was pushed. But we still like alot of the games on the system, so that says there, if the system was pushed, we would probably be talking about 7800 vs SMS and not 7800 vs Nes.

    These Tramiels people really fucked up, heads all up in the computer world.

  18. #18
    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Hurricane, WV
    Posts
    7,749
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Xbox LIVE
    boatofcar

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bitdude View Post
    With a extra chip , I also believe the 7800 could have pulled it off.
    And you are wrong. There is no way

    No Way

    NO WAY

    the 7800 could do SMB3. The very idea is laughable. It's ok to be a fan of a system, but part of being a fan is realizing the system's limitations.

  19. #19
    Alex (Level 15) boatofcar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Hurricane, WV
    Posts
    7,749
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Xbox LIVE
    boatofcar

    Default

    When people talk about the graphical abilities of the 7800, they always bring up Commando. Commando looks very good on the 7800. It's also one game. One game you're comparing to a proto of a XEGS game. Give me one more example of a 7800 game that's graphically superior to an XEGS game and then we'll talk.

  20. #20
    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    16,556
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Default

    What the heck, this is an interesting topic.

    The 7800 is doing fairly well for its palette (25 of 256), and I think games like Midnight Mutants could have shown that off, but didn't for some reason (most of the time...did the game just use colors poorly? There's more colors onscreen when the Game Over logos show up).

    Both games seem to have futzed around with the graphical system somewhat...I understand that the NES deals with the first number of scanlines differently, and looking at the 7800 MM game it's apparent that the text on the top of the screen is higher-res than the gameplay screen [link url=http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-7800/midnight-mutants/screenshots/gameShotId,82911/](example)[/quote].

    On the whole, I think the 7800 would've done much better with an expansion chip. Early NES games without any expansion chips (like Wild Gunman) are pretty laughable, after all. On the other hand, the 7800 was around at the same time as the NES, so you'd have thought some of the 6502 knowledge in the gaming market would've helped the system. I think unfamiliarity with or bottlenecks in the graphics CPU might've been a major factor (plus, who's going to develop for the 7800 anyway?).

Similar Threads

  1. Super Mario Bros. Toy - Two Ladders & Mario Luigi Figures
    By ZackyH in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-31-2007, 02:06 AM
  2. FS: N64 Mario Kart 64, Mario Golf, Super Smash Bros $35
    By Perkar in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-24-2006, 11:31 PM
  3. NEW Super Mario Bros. an evolution of classic 2D Mario
    By Jasoco in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-19-2005, 03:25 PM
  4. FA: Mario Bros / Zelda Toy Chest, Super Mario 2 Inside Out
    By TisLord in forum Buying and Selling
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-21-2004, 09:25 AM
  5. Everybody Rejoice ---- Super Mario Bros. Super Show! - Vol 1
    By www.consolegames.org in forum Classic Gaming
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-28-2004, 04:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •