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Thread: Definitive series in Retro Gamer...worst writing/research?

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Default Definitive series in Retro Gamer...worst writing/research?

    The definitive series in Retro Gamer:

    Frogger (issue 38):
    Frogger II: Threeedeep!, in the magazine it is spelled 'Frogger 2:Threedeep' throughout the article. So he didn't even look at the game (box)?
    And he called Frogger (first Frogger)(Parker Bros version) a 'crude-looking' effort! What??? It's an excellent title in both graphics and sound (for the time). And a million seller too. (No comparison with Supercharger, of course, but for a cart version, Frogger was top).

    Galaxian (issue 32):
    No mention of Galaga on Atari 7800, nor the excellent VCS version of Galaxian, nor Gorf on Jaguar (which includes the 'Galaxians' level). Although he does mention that there is no 'official' Gorf version.

    Xevious (issue 34):
    No mention on (again) Atari 7800 (does he actually know this console?), A8, Apple ][, nor the VCS proto (should have been included/at least mentioned as the game was started by Tod Frye).

    And that is just 3 'definitive' articles picked out at random.

    I really hope the writer doesn't do the 'Definitive' series much longer, as it is not. Or am I being picky? Am I asking to much? Is proper research still so difficult, even with the internet, providing DP, AA, AM, VA and so forth?
    Last edited by tom; 07-07-2007 at 07:03 AM.

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    They're written by the infamous Stuart Campbell, no?

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Well I wasn't gonna mention any names, but yes.

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    Conversions generally DO NOT get listed in the articles unless they are significantly different in someway (for example Rodland on the NES) compared to the arcade.

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    Didn't they have a big look back at the NES in that issue? They mentioned that the 6502 processor was comparable to the 68000, which struck me as pretty inaccurate.

    So much of the magazine's information is inaccurate, but I love it anyway. I couldn't take a poop without it.

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    After the buyout, I stopped subscribing. I prefer the "dry" writing of the early days of the magazine to what I read about now. I never thought it was dry, anyway. I loved the magazine in its original incarnation, UK computer bias and all

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Conversions generally DO NOT get listed in the articles unless they are significantly different in someway (for example Rodland on the NES) compared to the arcade.
    Now that's just being stupid. Not an arcade game at all, but why mention the Coleco version of Frogger II: Threeedeep!, and NOT the VCS version then? Sorry, that excuse won't wash.

    If not it's own column, but a mention should be a must, after all; C-64, even CPC and Spectrum conversions get at least mentioned, whilst Apple ][, VCS, 7800, A8 do not. That's just not right.

    Most conversions differ from the arcades to start off with anyway.
    Last edited by tom; 07-07-2007 at 03:58 PM.

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    General thought on that? It's a UK mag with a UK writer, hence he'll most likely write on UK predominant format. Most people reading the magazine won't have played the games on those formats anyhow.

    I'm not excusing it, just giving it rational.

    Stu himself, by the way, would probably quote something witty or tell you fuck off btw...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom View Post
    Frogger II: Threeedeep!, in the magazine it is spelled 'Frogger 2:Threedeep' throughout the article. So he didn't even look at the game (box)?
    It's quite normal to normalise titles with strange spelling in running text.

    Otherwise I agree that RG is a haven of shoddy journalism and bad research. Its series of coverage of specific systems is repetitive and ridden with errors.

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    Well thanks for dissing in one sentence the hard effort I put into writing the C64, N64 and Vectrex pieces then

    Given obviously you think it's shoddy, why do you still read it, and whereas is actually, in general fact, doing better?

    Perhaps we should get you to write something and then hack it pieces in front of your eyes... poor baby can't take the criticism? I've been in this game long enough to let most of it slide and just ignore it, for the only thing that really matters is why the people paying us to write it continue to do so.

    If THEY were unhappy with it, then surely we wouldn't have jobs? :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Well thanks for dissing in one sentence the hard effort I put into writing the C64, N64 and Vectrex pieces then
    I can't speak for the other two, but I thought the C64 one was fantastic!

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    Thanks

    I always try and remember that most people only say something when it goes wrong... a lot of silent people who like what they read then I guess

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Stu himself, by the way, would probably quote something witty...
    Stu, witty? I doubt it very much. As for 'fuck off' yes, I believe that would be the height of his vocabulary.
    Last edited by tom; 07-08-2007 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Well thanks for dissing in one sentence the hard effort I put into writing the C64, N64 and Vectrex pieces then

    Given obviously you think it's shoddy, why do you still read it, and whereas is actually, in general fact, doing better?

    Perhaps we should get you to write something and then hack it pieces in front of your eyes... poor baby can't take the criticism? I've been in this game long enough to let most of it slide and just ignore it, for the only thing that really matters is why the people paying us to write it continue to do so.

    If THEY were unhappy with it, then surely we wouldn't have jobs? :P

    The C64 article was actually very good, Usually your writing is excellent, but you are in the know thanks to us at DP. (except your A8 and Apple ][ knowledge leaves a lot to be desired)
    But I stress, the magazine cost GBP 4.99, I expect at least Threeedeep! to be spelled that way.
    (Also in issue 34 RB questioned Mattel Aquarius: 'Downloading games in 1983?' Well, yes, that was nothing new, the VCS had been doing this in 1983 via Gameline already. This common knowledge even people at RG should know about ).

    As for 'right' or 'wrong', you might wanna watch 'The Devil wears Prada' (conversation between Andrea and Nigel, when Andrea messed up). We can't worship and kiss your butt everytime you do a good job. That is your job, after all. You're supposed to get it right. You get money for this. We are here to critizise and elaborate on your mistakes.
    Last edited by tom; 07-08-2007 at 01:24 PM.

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    RG is a terrible, terrible magazine.

    I received a subscription as a present about 7/8 months ago. I was delighted at first and thought it a great idea. But as the months go by i realise just how poor the journalism in this magazine really is.

    Honestly, I also get 'edge' magazine which has had over the years some of the greatest peices and mini esseys i have ever read about videogames. After reading it each month it brings me to tears to go back to the 6th form, juvinile and just poor writing of this magazine.

    I don't know if that is meant to be it's style and i don't mean to diss your work mayhem but that the way i feel about it. I honestly get better discussion and thoughts on videogames here on this forum then in that maghazine. It seems like rushed research and that the writers have just lifted all knowledge straight from the internet.

    The Assembler article was pathetic, hyped and sensationalised. The thing is there was some interested bits in there but it was written with such a horrible forced style and the whole 'underground' thing felt so fake.

    I would give kudos to the artwork and covers mind, they can be really great.

    The last few months have become a quck flick through the pictures as they do raise a smile if i havn't played said game for a while but the writing i can take or leave.

    sorry mayhem, but i won't be re-subscribing!

    Edge magazine and here is my fix.

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    Fair enough... a lot of people can't stand Edge's writing because it's so pompous, self inflated and up its arse. But I won't comment further heh... and quite often ill researched and written too. Damn, I said I'd stop. Bitter... nah? But Edge gets a lot of flack as well.

    Besides most of what goes into RG doesn't come from the internet, all the Making Ofs, and behind the scenes stuff is from the actual people who were there or wrote the games... likewise the interviews.

    The only real final word I generally ask is... if you think it's so bad, I'd appreciate seeing how well you can do yourself...
    Last edited by Mayhem; 07-08-2007 at 12:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Fair enough... a lot of people can't stand Edge's writing because it's so pompous, self inflated and up its arse. But I won't comment further heh... and quite often ill researched and written too. Damn, I said I'd stop. Bitter... nah? But Edge gets a lot of flack as well.

    Besides most of what goes into RG doesn't come from the internet, all the Making Ofs, and behind the scenes stuff is from the actual people who were there or wrote the games... likewise the interviews.

    The only real final word I generally ask is... if you think it's so bad, I'd appreciate seeing how well you can do yourself...
    I could contribute, but I am not writing anymore (I ran my own fanzine in the UK for over 5 years ('87 - '92, Atari 8/16), written for many fanzines including Digital Press (USA), The 2600 Connection (USA), Retro Classix (UK), Portfolio Connection (UK), Atari Entertainment (UK), Lynx User (UK), and I was voted 'best writer of the year' by readers of Retrogames UK (late 90s), a best selling fanzine which ran over a period of 10 years. Further I contributed to one of the first Retro shows in London (wasn't even known as 'Retro' back then), attended and contributed to many UK exhibitions like AMS, held in Uttoxeter, RRL and so forth, and I am sleeping on 2500 (mostly) UK gaming magazines, starting from the early 80s. So I'd say I qualify.

    Almost forgot: During the 80s/90s I used Atari XE/FDD, C128/FDD, Apple ][/FDD, all three running side by side, each on their own monitor.
    Last edited by tom; 07-08-2007 at 02:11 PM.

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    Well then a pity... because it sounds as if you'd be the perfect person to do an Atari or Apple piece then.

    RG is a mostly UK, partly European centric publication by virtue of its writers and its readers. Hence it is inevitable that a lot of the content will be applicable to people in those regions. Having read many issues of DP myself, I don't think you'll be in a position to deny that the homespun fanzine here caters almost exclusively to American readers.

    I see both of us as some of the few who have an expansive knowledge of a lot of different systems. Many people are not like that. Btw my previous comment was really directed at TMC, not yourself. I always say if you don't like what you read, then please have a go yourself and see if you can actually do any better. Most people shut up after that point.

    I do have vague recollections of reading some issues of Retro Classix and Retrogames, as I knew both guys in charge of them and visited their shops (whilst they still existed, sadly neither any more). Maybe I read something by yourself then?

    To be bluntly honest, the Atari and Apple were the merest of specs impression wise in the UK gaming market, and that I hope you concede is why neither get much mention. I've barely used an Apple II myself, maybe I'll ask the gf to hook hers up when I visit end of this month and we'll have a play through some games.

    Since Imagine took over RG, I would agree the range of systems left to cover is starting to get thin. I wonder what most would make of an Apple II piece given so few people in the UK would have used one, but I figure everything deserves an equal coverage. Should it ever get to look at the Bally Astrocade or the RCA for example, then I know things are scraping the barrel

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedEye View Post
    I can't speak for the other two, but I thought the C64 one was fantastic!

    Yep - I liked it too - Immensely - Was obviously written by a fan of the good ol' C64 (Still got mine, with all the extras, and an MMC64.. ...oh, and another 40-50 at present ...and no, I'm not Bullsh*tting - Though erm... I may have bought one or two many! ) - Mind you, I didn't know Mayhem had written that article!...

    ...However.... What was with the Screenshots montage? - AARRGH!! - The C64 has FANTASTIC colours, but the whole thing was just a wash of grey, purple, and green!!! - I doubt it did Mayhem's hard work justice, and if anything, would have turned people off the good 'ol C64!!! - Grrr... As an avid RG subscriber and regular retro event attendee, I was *soooo* close to writing in an' having a moan, especially as the Speccie article got nice, vibrant colours on it's montage! (Hmmm... Bias? -Nooooo... I'd like to think it was just that the printers got it wrong... )

    Other than that - Tosh! - I still like RG for what it IS - The only dedicated source for info (Nostalgaic AND Current) on my favourite era - I may not always agree with them, but hey - I didn't agree (by far!) with the ORIGINAL RG's top 100 , and dminishing page counts... (Though I DO miss those coverdiscs! )

    The main thing I don't get get on with in the new-look/feel RG is the constant onslaught of "witty" captions for pretty much every screenshot in there! - Like my fellow forumite above, I preferred the more dry/serious feel of the original RG, but again - I appreciate that some of the new guys actually enjoy/really feel for what they're doing, instead of it just being a job - I've pretty much met all of 'em at retro events, and unlike, say "Redeye" from Edge did, they are TRULY supportive, and don't go back to their word processor and start writing utter p*ss-taking drivel in the style of a PI/Reporter, just to p*ss on whatever the scene is currently trying to do for all of the true enthusiasts out there!

    Mayhem? - I for one appreciate the time and effort you've put in for everybody's enjoyment, and it was great to meet you at last year's Retro Fusion (PS - A big THANKS to Chris too!) - good to meet everyone in fact, and having a laugh and a chat with Archer M. about Dropzone, IK+ and the good times in general, not to mention a top curry, was the icing on the cake - Keep it up guys!

    PS - I managed to get a SNES Proto/in-house pre-release cart of Wolfenstein 3D (PAL) amonst some other stuff the other day, complete with Japanese official Nintendo blank label (obviously with Wolfenstein 3D writtern on!) - Tried it, and works fine, so unsure of *how* complete it is!

    Any of you guys know the best place to punt it purleeez?

    Cheers, and congrats on the forum/site!


    Den/Japster...
    Last edited by japster; 07-08-2007 at 04:31 PM.

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    ServBot (Level 11) tom's Avatar
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    >>>>>japster said: Other than that - Tosh! - I still like RG for what it IS - The only dedicated source for info (Nostalgaic AND Current) on my favourite era<<<<<

    To end this: Yes, here's a newbie I agree with.

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