Recent NES black box sales

[portnoyd]

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

I'm quoting this because everyone passed it off, especially buyatari as an 'overly paranoid' view but no one countered it. So here we go:

Braveheart69 is shilling like crazy any black box auction to boost prices to make what he has even more valuable.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sort=3&guest=1

Note the feedback: 3283 (as of 4/15). Now look at this infamous DK Jr Math lot auction:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290690633965

Do you see a familiar number? e***r (3283)? Also look at the bids. He made half of them.

This is clearly braveheart69, someone who owns a ridiculously mint copy of DK Jr Math from TheFrisbee. He's either trying to hoard these, boost prices or both.

How is my assertion overly paranoid again? And don't say you can't counter it - I mean, "fuck It, (you) can't be bothered at this point" if you're going to reply at all.

[Buyatari]

I'm quoting this because everyone passed it off, especially buyatari as an 'overly paranoid' view but no one countered it. So here we go:

Braveheart69 is shilling like crazy any black box auction to boost prices to make what he has even more valuable.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sort=3&guest=1

Note the feedback: 3283 (as of 4/15). Now look at this infamous DK Jr Math lot auction:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290690633965

Do you see a familiar number? e***r (3283)? Also look at the bids. He made half of them.

This is clearly braveheart69, someone who owns a ridiculously mint copy of DK Jr Math from TheFrisbee. He's either trying to hoard these, boost prices or both.

How is my assertion overly paranoid again? And don't say you can't counter it - I mean, "fuck It, (you) can't be bothered at this point" if you're going to reply at all.

So what, this still doesn't affect loose carts.

I still stand by what I said. Most loose carts worth $30-20 and under five years ago are still worth $30-20 and under. A few may have become pricey but for the most part only the games worth more than $50 five years ago are worth more than $50 now. Some have fallen in price.

I don't understand how a few titles in a certain condition selling for big bucks changes anything if you just want to collect videogames for fun. I would bet you that there are still thousands of games worth under $20 that you still do not own if you look across all platforms and all regions.

[portnoyd]

So what, this still doesn't affect loose carts.

I still stand by what I said. Most loose carts worth $30-20 and under five years ago are still worth $30-20 and under. A few may have become pricey but for the most part only the games worth more than $50 five years ago are worth more than $50 now. Some have fallen in price.

I don't understand how a few titles in a certain condition selling for big bucks changes anything if you just want to collect videogames for fun. I would bet you that there are still thousands of games worth under $20 that you still do not own if you look across all platforms and all regions.

Nice deflection. You are proving to be quite the expert at dismissing people's claims.

How is it overly paranoid when I cite the evidence above?

[Buyatari]

Nice deflection.

You can count on this in just about any hobby. Comic,cards,coins,stamp whatever. The rare most desired expensive items in top condition will continue to go up and up and will continue to go up so long as there are people out there collecting them. Some people who recognize this may take advantage but without rarity and demand it wouldn't be possible. Having the forsight to take advantage of such a situation doesn't mean you created it single handedly. Without new buyers willing to shell out more and more it just wouldn't happen no matter how many you tried to put away.

Still none of this should matter if you just want to collect games and enjoy collecting videogames cheaply. There is plenty out there that is cheap and that will stay cheap for a long long time.

[BeaglePuss]

Evidence that Braveheart bid on a black box title he already owns? What does that have to do with the price of loose black box games (over even sealed black box games that the thread was originally about)?

[jonebone]

Yeah hoarding is basically a big middle finger to the collecting community, and I find it disgraceful that a "mod" does that, but that's another argument. It's one thing to buy another for an upgrade, or to buy another for tradebait, but at some point it becomes quite excessive. But quite frankly, it's not my business what anyone does with their money (and I don't really care), I just hate to see such a figurehead be all about the money.

However, I don't think that CIB or sealed hoarding has too much of an effect on loose prices. What it does prove, is your point about the "hobby" being more like a business these days. It's sad but true, and it will never revert back to how it was. I can't say that I really remember those days though, as I started in 2008 and things were still pretty "business-like" at the time. Values were just drastically cheaper.

[Buyatari]

Yeah hoarding is basically a big middle finger to the collecting community, and I find it disgraceful that a "mod" does that, but that's another argument. It's one thing to buy another for an upgrade, or to buy another for tradebait, but at some point it becomes quite excessive. But quite frankly, it's not my business what anyone does with their money (and I don't really care), I just hate to see such a figurehead be all about the money.

However, I don't think that CIB or sealed hoarding has too much of an effect on loose prices. What it does prove, is your point about the "hobby" being more like a business these days. It's sad but true, and it will never revert back to how it was. I can't say that I really remember those days though, as I started in 2008 and things were still pretty "business-like" at the time. Values were just drastically cheaper.

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

[Panzerfuzion]

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

Replace Atari with Nintendo or Sega and you have the Nolan's...

[Bojay1997]

For you personally it may have always been about the money, but having been a collector since 1989, I can honestly say the whole flipping/reselling thing is a relatively new phenomenon, at least in the scale and scope it's happening today and it's still not where most collectors are operating. For most of the 90s and even into the 2000s, there were a number of good on-line small retailers selling old games at reasonable prices, plenty of Ebay auctions that were actual auctions and plenty of collectors who traded or sold stuff at or below cost whenever they met up at various local gatherings or CGE and other regional conventions. I know I have given away thousands of dollars in duplicate games and consoles over the years to new collectors and I know many other collectors have done the same thing. In short, collecting was always a community first and the whole money thing was completely secondary. Similarly, the vast majority of people collecting prototypes and other rare items in the 90s were not doing it for the money. They did it to preserve the games and to build interesting and unique collections. Heck, if everyone was doing it for the money, there would be no museum at CGE or large holdings of rare Atari items like Curt Vendel's collection.

With the rise of NES collecting and grading, the whole flipper/reseller thing has reached alarming proportions. For me personally, it troubles me that these resellers are contributing nothing to the collecting community, using tips and resources from collectors to profit and essentially sitting on Ebay to grab stuff only to have it graded and re-sell it a month or two later at several times the original price. There is no real work going into the process, it's not like these people are going out and searching swap meets or thrifts or scouring distributor warehouses for the stuff, they are simply snagging games before other non-flipper/reseller collectors can purchase them on Ebay and marking up the prices to absrud levels.

I guess my major trouble with all of this is that there seems to be a lack of outrage against these resellers. I have no problem with people selling their excess or even buying lots and breaking it up, removing what they need for their own collection. I do have an issue with people doing the perpetual Ebay flipping and justifying it by saying it supports their collection. Those resellers hurt other collectors by taking away their opporunity to grow their collections at reasonable prices. That should not be commended or accepted. Similarly, these resellers shouldn't be allowed to have free access to the knowledge and advice of collectors who really do care about the games and want to help other members of the community to grow their collections and not profit financially.

I've collected many things over the years and I am very confident that at some point in the near future, the bubble will burst and the resellers will move on like they always do. Until then, there are plenty of collectors out there who care about the games first and preserving history and who will continue to operate in the spirit of the old days of video game collecting.

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

[jonebone]

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Well you can speak for yourself there. I would part with every single item in my collection before parting with a few N64 games, it was my favorite system by far, and will always be my favorite system to collect for. With such a small library though, you run out of things to collect and eventually have to branch out, or stop collecting. So many of us branch out.

You favorites get you into the hobby, but at some point value does influence your purchases. I would collect Sega Genesis / WWF Wrestling VHS / and a few other things if value was all created equal. But it's not, so as you mention, I tend to focus on most things Nintendo.

So after you finish your favorites, most people continue to collect instead of stopping entirely. At that point you realize that your time is worth money, so you might as well collect things that have value associated with them. I don't think that makes it "all about the money though". When I think of "all about the money", it's the people who are a slave to eBay every single day in and out, with a continuous rotating stock of items for sale. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there are definitely more people like that now, than 4 years ago when I started. And probably even less back in the 90s.

[Griking]

I'm quoting this because everyone passed it off, especially buyatari as an 'overly paranoid' view but no one countered it. So here we go:

Braveheart69 is shilling like crazy any black box auction to boost prices to make what he has even more valuable.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sort=3&guest=1

Note the feedback: 3283 (as of 4/15). Now look at this infamous DK Jr Math lot auction:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290690633965

Do you see a familiar number? e***r (3283)? Also look at the bids. He made half of them.

This is clearly braveheart69, someone who owns a ridiculously mint copy of DK Jr Math from TheFrisbee. He's either trying to hoard these, boost prices or both.

How is my assertion overly paranoid again? And don't say you can't counter it - I mean, "fuck It, (you) can't be bothered at this point" if you're going to reply at all.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point but what is this braveheart69 actually doing wrong? How is it shilling if you're bidding on soneone else's auction or are you suggesting that Braveheart69 is the same person as stickmans_onlinestuff?