When people talk about the graphical abilities of the 7800, they always bring up Commando. Commando looks very good on the 7800. It's also one game. One game you're comparing to a proto of a XEGS game. Give me one more example of a 7800 game that's graphically superior to an XEGS game and then we'll talk.
What the heck, this is an interesting topic.
The 7800 is doing fairly well for its palette (25 of 256), and I think games like Midnight Mutants could have shown that off, but didn't for some reason (most of the time...did the game just use colors poorly? There's more colors onscreen when the Game Over logos show up).
Both games seem to have futzed around with the graphical system somewhat...I understand that the NES deals with the first number of scanlines differently, and looking at the 7800 MM game it's apparent that the text on the top of the screen is higher-res than the gameplay screen [link url=http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-7800/midnight-mutants/screenshots/gameShotId,82911/](example)[/quote].
On the whole, I think the 7800 would've done much better with an expansion chip. Early NES games without any expansion chips (like Wild Gunman) are pretty laughable, after all. On the other hand, the 7800 was around at the same time as the NES, so you'd have thought some of the 6502 knowledge in the gaming market would've helped the system. I think unfamiliarity with or bottlenecks in the graphics CPU might've been a major factor (plus, who's going to develop for the 7800 anyway?).
This is a great topic I found accidentally while searching for something else. While I love my 7800, I can't see how anyone can seriously debate this. A better question would be "Would the original SMB be possible on the 7800?" Even with that question, I still say no. The fast scrolling and fast-paced action, pastel colors, and music don't seem possible. However, if someone makes a homebrew and proves me wrong, I'd be happy to admit it.
Your reply can't be taken serious if you don't look beyond what was actually produced for the 7800. This thread is about speculation on what might've been had the 7800 had the financial and human resources behind it that the Famicom/NES enjoyed. It's not a thread for someone to quickly compare the 7800 library with the NES library and then state, no, it couldn't be done.
Atari focused on things like arcade ports from the early 80s, they never went beyond 1984 for the most part with this console. And cartridges were always as cheaply produced as possible, with minimum amounts of memory. It's a miracle there were even two titles released that had a POKEY sound chip.
And after the first round of titles that was produced before the home division was sold and the console was temporarily shelved, the console never had top programming talent or even development teams the size of anything on the NES side. They were still largely being programmed by teams of just a handful of individuals, unlike most top NES titles. Games were being developed as if it was still the early 1980s, rather than the late 1980s in a era where games were becoming far more advanced.
I'd say if you compared the 7800 with the Famicom during it's early days, they compare very well. Sadly, Atari never took it further, prefering to use the 7800 as a cash cow to gleen profits off consumers that couldn't afford a NES, with the minimum financial investment possible. And there was little 3rd party support to help further the console along.
In other words, they never pushed the system. Imagine the NES without the advanced multi-memory controllers like the MMC3 that made things like Super Mario Brothers 3 possible, battery backup saves, all that 3rd party development, etc. Most NES favorites that are well remembered and are used as a basis for comparison today used special chips designed to extend the capabilities of the NES and make it possible for NES titles that were far more advanced than the original console could offer. The 7800 had nothing of that.
Sadly, Atari never even pushed the 7800's basic capabilities. We can just speculate what might've been had Atari been able to push the console to it's limits, and even extended those limits when necessary through creative cartridge solutions, such as what Nintendo routinely did throughout the NES and SuperNes eras.
You can't know what was possible when they never even tried. Technical specifications (In some aspects, the console is actually more powerful), certain gems in the 7800 library, and even incomplete titles like Rescue on Fractalus, suggest far more could've been achieved from the 7800.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the Atari 7800 could've had something like Super Mario Bros. 3 developed for it. What I am suggesting is that we'll never know because the console never even came close to being pushed to it's limits, and that perhaps efforts on par with many of the more advanced efforts we witnessed on the NES might've been possible had it been on a more equal footing with the NES.
Last edited by Leo_A; 12-08-2009 at 06:21 PM.
It amazes me when people talk badly about the 7800's scrolling capabilities but nobody ever brings up Scrapyard Dog, a game that has perfectly fine scrolling and graphics more complex than SMB 1.
This was a Tramiel thing. Everything had to be cheap, cheap, cheap. I think he had the right idea for hardware (C64 and to a lesser extent Atari ST worked out well), but he had no idea how to manage a game company.Originally Posted by Leo_Ames
You could even go further and argue that Tramiel didn't even want the 7800 and had no intention of really supporting it at all. After all, he had wanted to buy only the computer aspect of Atari, but they'd only sell him the entire computer and console division. So the 7800 just got thrown out there unceremoniously.
Then again, that explanation doesn't make sense when you think about Atari's later failings, but I'm not sure when Sam Tramiel took over.
There is a scrolling demo for the Atari 7800. It is found at http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic...st__p__1884122 .
The Megaman style demo that features scrolling. Since the demo shows the Atari 7800 is capable of Megaman game, it means it is capable of Super Mario Brothers besides Scrapyard Dog.
Scrapyard Dog is the only scrolling platform game for the Atari 7800 that isn't a demo.
The 7800 did Mario 3, it was called Scrapyard Dog.
vs.
#vbender
Looks a bit one-dimensional. Kind of like Mario Bros. without the platforms (or the Bros.). There any cloud cover or platforms later in that game? I'm interested in seeing more, don't get me wrong.
Looking back at my '07 post (the previous last one in the thread lol) I wonder if the game over screen in Midnight Monsters isn't a different resolution mode than in gameplay. Possibly a slow highres and high-color mode (if the 7800 had such a thing).
It is possible that Scrapyard Dog didn't show all the potential doing a Super Mario Bros. style game. The Atari 7800 didn't exactly have great programmers back in the day like the person that did Karateka, Hat Trick, and Choplifter!. The homebrew games done for the Atari 7800 are better than a lot of the games released back in the day. I think we might better off not to judge if the Atari 7800 is capable of Super Mario 3 until a 2nd scrolling Atari 7800 platform game is being worked on.
There has been homebrew games for the Atari 7800 that has Scrolling and are great games. That means a Super Mario Bros. style game isn't out of the question for a homebrew game. The homebrew games that has scrolling are the following:
Jr. Pac-man - it is released in Cartridge form.
Apple Snaffle - found at http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic...birthday-game/
Failsafe - Countermeasure sequel that is a work in progress and has the scrolling. Information on it is found at http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic...safe-7800-wip/ .
It is possible to see a homebrew Super Mario bros. style game for the Atari 7800 down sometime down the road. If a such a game will be worked on, it is likely to come from GroovyBee or Propane13. The only way PacManPlus could do a Super Mario bros. style game is if he does Pac-Land.
PacManPlus is doing a sequel to countermeasure, but he usually does arcade ports since he likes doing arcade ports.
Propane13 is doing Arkanoid, he did a scrolling demo prior to that. Propane 13
might do some more homebrew Atari 7800 games that aren't arcade ports like GroovyBee does.
Last edited by 7th lutz; 12-08-2009 at 10:47 PM.
Let me ask, why are people bumping up "x system vs. NES!" threads lately? C'mon, don't fuel the fire guys.
Selling gaming accessories. Click
Threads like this make the baby Jesus cry. Don't get me wrong, I love the Atari 7800 and all that noise, but c'mon...
<skaar> Let's triforce our dicks
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