Retro Gamer covers The Elite of Collectors (aka crazy people)

[GizmoGC]

TheRedEye will always be my hero as he brought me the prototype of MC Kids via ROM. I love him. If only I can track down the version that has power-ups similar to Mario 3....sigh.

[Push Upstairs]

Hearing about stuff I never knew existed is much more interesting than hearing some exaggerated story about collectors.

But thats just me.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Hearing some exaggerated story about collectors is much more interesting than hearing those collectors bicker among themselves about the story.

But maybe that's just me.


...word is bondage...

[badinsults]

The big problem is that you took Frank's quote regarding the use of watermarking on website images, and put it in an article about the so called "secretive" world of prototype and dev hardware collectors. I have talked to many people who own unreleased games and stuff, and pretty much every one of them was very willing to allow information about their collection be put into the public. Sure, there are a few that are leary about freely releasing roms to the public, but really from a finacial standpoint I can understand. The people who collect are a bit quirky, but hell, we are all pretty much eccentric anyways. Your assessment of the scene is just plain wrong, IMO.

[Ed Oscuro]

Bah, I doubt he's going to come back.

He just came by to scream about being (O TEH IRONINGS???/) and ran away again.

I'm not sure I understand the quote on Robotech. Is he saying that Frank changed his views on the Robotech ROM, or just being confusing (as I think is the case) by not setting up a sentence properly?

[GarrettCRW]

While I can understand the concept of elitism in an online fandom (as I once dipped into these waters when it was revealed, almost as an afterthought and within days of the first DVD release of the Filmation He-Man series, that the episodes would be time-compressed and edited), I certainly don't believe this is the case with video games. Most sensible collectors of prototypes understand that the data on their rare finds has an extremely finite shelf life, even in comparison to commercially-released software for the same system. If anything, the main thing halting the release of certain prototypes seems to lie with the companies that own the rights to the games, which was acknowledged in this article (albeit in an incredibly sensationalized fashion). If there's any elitism, it's by a video game "journalist" who's attempting to cover his rear by claiming we simple non-journalists wouldn't understand why his article turned out the way it did.

[smork]

I can't believe this guy came here to get involved in a flame war. Sure, most of us seem to have issues with the article, and Frank's got real big problems with the article, but who hops on an internet forum to defend themselves? When has that ever ended well?

I don't even know the guy, he may be a great dude for all I know, but it seems the sort of thing you take to a PM conversation, no?

[JWSzczep]

Guys, I didn't run away, read the last sentence in my post. Jeez, I can't believe I bothered to find a net connection and post on my holiday.

I posted a rebuttal because Frank not only criticised me on a forum, which I would have left, but he did it on a podcast as well, which forced my hand. I can't exactly make my own podcast, but I've posted this rebuttal on all the forums I know of where he flipped his lid regarding my article and me.

The Robotech thing was him just saying in a PM that the ROM was available online. The point of my posting that PM was, that he read the Escapist version of the article (published tail end of 2005) and liked it. yet claimed the expanded version was smoke and mirrors about nothing. I was showing how hypocritical he is.

Also, haven't you heard of artistic licence? I've noticed a trend, and that is, most people who dislike the style and artistic licence used are Americans, while those who did like it, are British. Not to sound cliched or offensive, but you guys just don't seem to get irony or metaphors.

I think my assessment of the scene is fine, because if people were so open, we'd see dozens and dozens of websites with information and screens on this stuff, and blogs too. Instead, I can think of about only 4 or 5 smallish websites which offer this info publicly (though I only know of a couple with restricted access).

I've reread the article, so it's fresh in my mind, and with the exception of the NWC numbers, everything is factual. Stuff like the VB proto heist was taken from an MSN conversation with someone I had no reason to doubt, and the Megajets being stolen in Indonesia I took from a 3rd party source which didn't even realise I was using the information - therefor I see no reason for them to lie. I've gone through everything else, and all the items, all the games, all the interesting stories (like raiding Sega UK's rubbish bins), are all true.

This just boils down to you guys not liking the sense of mystery I added. But hey, I don't care. I think it makes it an infinitely better article than saying: "Some guy bought a game that wasn't released, and he played it a bit. And then he traded his game for some other guy's unreleased game. Everyday they eat breakfast like you and me, and then go to work."

Seriously, how fucking dull would that be. My way is much better. Not every article requires it, but sometimes it's needed.




Also, regarding the Son of M.U.L.E thing, it shows how little Frank checked his facts. The guy from www.worldofmule.net sent me some unreleased images of "Son of M.U.L.E." on the MegaDrive, to use in articles and distribute online, because he knew that Retro Gamer covered unreleased games. He couldn't send me the ROM, but was happy for me to write about it. I actually lovingly crafted a very good article on the original M.U.L.E with interviews with several key people. Wikipedia has an external link to it (this does not include the SoM screens):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E

I asked the guy on www.worldofmule.net if he wanted watermarks, so people would know to go to his site for more information. He said yes. So I put "www.worldofmule.net" in white lettering, in the black border at the bottom of each of the screens, making sure not to obscure the actual game content.

Frank saw this and went out of his mind.

[Gentlegamer]

Also, haven't you heard of artistic licence?

Of course, but what business does it have in journalistic writing?

I've noticed a trend, and that is, most people who dislike the style and artistic licence used are Americans, while those who did like it, are British.

Again, in the context of journalism, this is probably correct: it's the British who love tabloid garbage in their mainstream media.

Not to sound cliched or offensive, but you guys just don't seem to get irony or metaphors.

It's ironic that you say you don't want to sound offensive, and then insult the intelligence (and taste) of Americans.

You're a douche bag (metaphor) and an idiot (not a metaphor).

Did I get irony and metaphor correct, old chum?

[Mayhem]

Of course, but what business does it have in journalistic writing?

Strangely enough to make it interesting. Or perhaps you prefer completely dry, factual, boring articles as opposed to something that stands out, gives a little kicker or actually makes you possibly laugh, smile, or think "hey I remember that in the past" in a "I was there, were you?" type way.

Hell, the last three articles I've written for RG myself have been the hardware features on the N64, C64 and Vectrex. These sort of pieces are usually the easiest and hardest of the lot at the same time; easy to write about technically because hey, you can stuff in a lot of facts and history. Hard to actually make them interesting and thought provoking to read.

Which is exactly the direction I took them in. Hence for the N64 piece I talked about everything that went down in Nintendo vs Sony from a view on both sides and my own having owned both machines; the C64 piece had a bundle of comparisons between US and UK, Spectrum and C64, tapes and disks; the Vectrex piece had quotage from some of the guys looking into why the machine never clicked with people and how short it lived because of the crash.

Again, in the context of journalism, this is probably correct: it's the British who love tabloid garbage in their mainstream media.

And Americans do not? You'd be foolish to deny it given how much time I've spent in the US. We're not so different you know...

Seriously I have to side with John on this one, as a fellow freelance writer of over 15 years. The articles in RG are read by people of all retro creeds and colours, age and experience, formats and companies. If it appeals and is appreciated by the majority of the readership, then job well done. It's hard to judge where the line can be.

Bottom line, I've read some boring crap in my time from both sides of the Atlantic. On the other hand, I tend to find the stuff written over here more interesting to read in general in terms of its style (if we ignore the content). But that's probably a culture thing with my fellow Brits...

[Push Upstairs]

Also, haven't you heard of artistic licence? I've noticed a trend, and that is, most people who dislike the style and artistic licence used are Americans, while those who did like it, are British. Not to sound cliched or offensive, but you guys just don't seem to get irony or metaphors.

[badinsults]

Perhaps you should look at another side to the issue. You claim that things are all secretive and such, but maybe the main issue is that most people aren't interested in these rarities. I have what is probably the most complete listing of unreleased snes games on the internet, yet I might get a total of one email regarding them per month. The information I have is out there, it is easily searchable on google. Even Retro Gamer magazine used some material off my site for one of their articles. However, with the exception of Star Fox 2 and some other oft cited unreleased games, does anyone really care that a game like Killer Instinct 2 had a complete snes port? I make all this information online because it interests me, and really it doesn't matter if others look at it or not. And as far as I can tell, only other people who research unreleased games really comment on my research.

[anagrama]

I've reread the article, so it's fresh in my mind, and with the exception of the NWC numbers, everything is factual.

In that case I'd love to know about the "covertly taken camera phone pic" of "the only working prototype of the SMS Disk Unit".

Mainly because it's exactly the same picture that has been circulating around the net for years, after first being published in a late 80's mag after it was shown at a US trade show. I certainly don't remember many camera phones being around in 1989. And one of the guys who was involved with marketing for Tonka (US Sega distributor at the time) has stated that it only ever existed as a mock-up rather than a working unit.

[TheRedEye]

The point of my posting that PM was, that he read the Escapist version of the article (published tail end of 2005) and liked it. yet claimed the expanded version was smoke and mirrors about nothing.

I was just being nice.

[PsychedelicShaman]

It seems like this level of obsession just takes away from the fun of collecting/playing.

Case in point: Assembler Games. Those guys are retarded, I've never seen so many rules on any other forum in my life! It's the worst forum atmosphere I've ever seen. Just a bunch of nerds battling over who is a more hardcore nerd. The whole exclusive cult thing just makes me not want to join the forums. Video games are supposed to be fun; I wish they'd stop trying to make them suck so much.

Places like atariage and digitpress are great. Anyone and everyone is invited to join and welcomed. The rules that are in place are just based on common sense. I may not post a whole lot, but I thoroughly enjoy this place.

Hopefully my rant didn't go too off-topic now

[badinsults]

It seems like this level of obsession just takes away from the fun of collecting/playing.

Case in point: Assembler Games. Those guys are retarded, I've never seen so many rules on any other forum in my life! It's the worst forum atmosphere I've ever seen. Just a bunch of nerds battling over who is a more hardcore nerd. The whole exclusive cult thing just makes me not want to join the forums. Video games are supposed to be fun; I wish they'd stop trying to make them suck so much.

Places like atariage and digitpress are great. Anyone and everyone is invited to join and welcomed. The rules that are in place are just based on common sense. I may not post a whole lot, but I thoroughly enjoy this place.

Hopefully my rant didn't go too off-topic now

Therein lies the problem. The only place he went to get information was Assembler Games. That tells us he didn't do all that much research. Personally, I have never gone to the Assembler forums, so I don't know what the atmosphere there, but I find that there are lots of people here that I can discuss rare snes items with on friendly terms.

[fennec fox]

It sounds to me that the only real "drama" to the collector scene is the drama in JWSzczep's mind.

I like Retro Gamer a lot but they did a disservice in printing his articles. Pointless sensationalism, the way only the lazy UK press does it.

[fennec fox]

Also, haven't you heard of artistic licence? I've noticed a trend, and that is, most people who dislike the style and artistic licence used are Americans, while those who did like it, are British. Not to sound cliched or offensive, but you guys just don't seem to get irony or metaphors.

Well, if you're speaking for Retro Gamer, then you've just lost one reader. I'm never going to recommend RG to anyone again because they obviously have zero respect for their readers, and you can forget about me giving you any image support again like I have in the past.

Pathetic. I mean, doesn't Darran care that you're insulting a wide cross-section of your paying readers, probably without his knowledge?

[Push Upstairs]

I'm not going to recommend "Retro Gamer" either. In fact, i'll never even pick one up if thats how writers for the magazine are going to act.

I could overlook that silly article and that cliched "secret society" garbage, but I don't like being called "stupid".

[Cornelius]

I think you guys missed the part where he said he no longer works for Retro Gamer (or writes at all, for that matter). Thus, there is no real action the magazine could take. Now if he did still work for them, there might be a point to your boycott (e.g. to get him fired), but as it stands I think you are being silly.