I still think it's strange... [Sega]

**Damon Plus** · 04-26-2005, 06:10 AM

...that Sega doesn´t make more systems, even 3 years after the Dreamcast "death". Now that I´ve purchased that system and I´m playing some amazing games, I miss them more than ever.

I grew up playing the Genesis, Master System and Game Gear, and, altough I´ve never had any Sega system more powerful than those three, I liked them as a company a lot, and knowing they won´t make a comeback in a few years (maybe never) really makes me feel sad.

**DeputyMoniker** · 04-26-2005, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Damon Plus

...that Sega doesn´t make more systems...

Yeah, it sucks but to be honest with you, I probably wouldn't hurry out and buy one even if they did.

If you're wondering WHY they dropped out...tell me again when you last bought a current Sega system...

**Jed** · 04-26-2005, 06:41 AM

Yeah, I loved the Sega lineup... Saturn was a great system for its time, as was Dreamcast. I'm sure if they ever made another one it would kick the crap out of anything out there.

**THATinkjar** · 04-26-2005, 06:51 AM

Yeah, I agree it is sad. But I'd rather play their games than play on their hardware. Sega are a games company in my eyes.

**AtariBuff** · 04-26-2005, 06:53 AM

I visited a friend last weekend and he showed me some new japanese shooters on the Dreamcast - i was really impressed. The PS2 has no better ones

**DeputyMoniker** · 04-26-2005, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by THATinkjar

Yeah, I agree it is sad. But I'd rather play their games than play on their hardware. Sega are a games company in my eyes.

Thats how I see SNK but it's always best to play on hardware that the software was originaly designed for. NAOMI to Dreamcast is one thing...but NAOMI to PS2 is a whole other story.
(NAOMI...that tells you how well I've kept up with Sega...lol)

**THATinkjar** · 04-26-2005, 07:17 AM

I guess when I really think about it (my previous reply was when I was on the phone at work, lol), I do really miss Sega.

I never got any of the Genesis add-ons. And my time with the Saturn was brief at best. And I only briefly played on a Dreamcast. But the GG, SMS and MD are ALL extremely important to me. I wouldn't buy the first two now, mind you, but I just finally picked up the Genesis and 20 games to get my collection going. And yeah, its a beautiful console. So light, so small, but boy does it pack a punch.

Nobody does it like Sega do it. And I miss them. But if they had continued with console production and development, would they still be around today? It's not a risk I would want them to take!

**Cryomancer** · 04-26-2005, 07:23 AM

There's a few alternate universes out there.

In one of them, the Saturn kicked teh playstation's ass, and the world ascended into 2-d heaven, and everyone from that reality is awesome at shooters and fighters.

In another, the Dreamcast beat out the PS2, and everyone gained personal peace and they all achieved polygonal nirvana. They're good at shooters and fighters too.

Sometimes I can't help but feel sony cheated the world out of two chances at sega-bannered peace and harmony by offering up games based on crappy movies with lots of brown environments.

sorry for being a huge fanboy for a minute there

**jdc** · 04-26-2005, 07:34 AM

Let's look at it in a new light for a sec.

I think that the reason we enjoy and appreciate Sega consoles and proprietary games so much is BECAUSE of the fact that they are no longer producing. I let my first Dreamcast and library go in order to acquire a just-launched PS2....because I figured that the DC would be around for a long time and I could always waltz into a store and buy another. That didn't pan out as planned

.I had the good fortune this winter to buy a used console that had had new controller ports and a new drive installed, but was never picked up by the owner. I scrambled to re-amass a software library, and right now I'm pretty much back to where I was when my stupidity led me to dump the original library. You can bet that I won't be letting THIS one go.

**fishsandwich** · 04-26-2005, 11:26 AM

Indeed, the rise and fall of Sega and their consoles is a sad but facinating story.

I truly believe the Saturn would have been more sucessful has Sega skipped the Srga CD and 32x. At the very least, they could have skipped the 32x but supported the Sega CD with better games and introduced the hardware at a lower price.

A lot of people forget that the Saturn was quite successful in Japan... over 700 games were released for it, and it competed quite well against the PSX for almost 3 years... the N64 was somewhat of a dud in Japan.

It's a shame that Sega depended so much on the American market for its profits. Had the Saturn done better in Japan, I honestly believe that the Dreamcast would have had a chance.

Oh, well. Alternate Universe stories can be fun.

Cheers

**Damon Plus** · 04-26-2005, 11:47 AM

Yeah, we´ll never know if the Dreamcast could´ve been alive today, competing with the current systems and on its last legs, with Sega releasing the final games for it.

**MegaDrive20XX** · 04-26-2005, 12:04 PM

It would be lovely to see Sega back in the spotlight with a new system. Yet in my honest opinion, Sega would be murdered again. Timing is what it's all about I think.

I agree with fishsandwich. If the 32X was not released, this could have given the Genesis and Sega CD a much longer life (especially the Sega CD)

@jdc Yes, I do agree that we enjoy Sega consoles more now because they aren't in the mainstream anymore.
The crowds go away and you feel like the pack rat, "Templeton" from "Charlotte's Web" after the lights go down....all the things people throw away just to go onto something better. Is now ours for the taking...a pure paradise for collectors.

**goatdan** · 04-26-2005, 12:15 PM

The only thing that is really disappointing to me about losing Sega as a hardware developer is that they were always willing to go out on a limb to develop weird and wacky stuff that no one had any idea if it would work or not. They don't seem to do that when it isn't their hardware they are trying to push. Just looking at the Dreamcast releases by Sega:

Jet Grind Radio - This seemed to come out of nowhere and have a gameplay style unlike anything seen before.

Phantasy Star Online - No one knew if it would work or not. Sega decided that they had to try it somewhere.

Rez - If you haven't seen it or played it, you really should. It didn't come out in the US, but it is amazing. And the skyrocketing price of the US PS2 version (and even importing the PAL or Asian versions) proves it.

Samba de Amigo - Where else can you shake maracca controllers in a game?

Seaman - Weird. Quirky. Really fun, and released with a TON of fanfare. Would that happen on one of today's consoles? This is perhaps the perfect example, as I don't think any other company would be crazy enough to use this as a system seller, or even try promoting it.

Shenmue - Shenmue should've started on the Saturn, but it ended up on the Dreamcast. That doesn't deny the fact that there hasn't been a game made like this before or since.

Space Channel 5 - Another game which was like Seaman -- completely wacky, and not something most companies would've really pushed... but Sega made Ulala a star for the Dreamcast.

Typing of the Dead - Need I say more?

The thing is that a lot of these games that Sega released that seemed to be so wacky worked at some level. Hell, of the eight listed, five have seen sequels or ports of the games on current gen systems.

Since the death of the Dreamcast, Sega has still made some awesome games, but a lot of the quirkyness is gone. Super Monkey Ball has it, but nothing else has been as off the wall as the games above. Sega was an innovater, and now as a company that doesn't have to push hardware, is walking the more safe route. That isn't to say their games aren't good -- hell, I've picked up almost every game they have released for the GameCube and Xbox, and I even have two of their PS2 titles for when I get a PS2 -- but they just aren't as innovative any more.

**CRV** · 04-26-2005, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

At the very least, they could have skipped the 32x but supported the Sega CD with better games and introduced the hardware at a lower price.

They COULD have, or they could have just released the same crap regardless.

**goatdan** · 04-26-2005, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

I truly believe the Saturn would have been more sucessful has Sega skipped the Srga CD and 32x. At the very least, they could have skipped the 32x but supported the Sega CD with better games and introduced the hardware at a lower price.

A lot of people miss the fact that the Sega CD was a big success. The fact is that the Sega CD was not a full new console -- you couldn't go out and buy a Sega CD without a Genesis. It was an add-on. Add-ons naturally can't have insanely good sales unless the hardware that they get added onto does. The Sega CD sold as well as Sega expected it would have, and had a lot of decent game support for it.

The 32X actually also did very well as an add on for the first couple months, until Sega all but announced that they screwed everyone who bought it by releasing the Saturn without cartridge support (originally, it had been rumored 32X games could play in the cartridge slot, which would've really, really saved Sega a lot of issues in the US) and stopping development.

A lot of people forget that the Saturn was quite successful in Japan... over 700 games were released for it, and it competed quite well against the PSX for almost 3 years... the N64 was somewhat of a dud in Japan.

It's a shame that Sega depended so much on the American market for its profits. Had the Saturn done better in Japan, I honestly believe that the Dreamcast would have had a chance.

Typo, right? You meant that if the Saturn had done better in the US the Dreamcast would've had a better shot?

**Melf** · 04-26-2005, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

Indeed, the rise and fall of Sega and their consoles is a sad but facinating story.

I truly believe the Saturn would have been more sucessful has Sega skipped the Srga CD and 32x. At the very least, they could have skipped the 32x but supported the Sega CD with better games and introduced the hardware at a lower price.

A lot of people forget that the Saturn was quite successful in Japan... over 700 games were released for it, and it competed quite well against the PSX for almost 3 years... the N64 was somewhat of a dud in Japan.

It's a shame that Sega depended so much on the American market for its profits. Had the Saturn done better in Japan, I honestly believe that the Dreamcast would have had a chance.

Oh, well. Alternate Universe stories can be fun.

Cheers

Sega's console history is a comedy of errors. Nakayama's decision to discontinue the Genesis, Sega CD, and 32X basically gave Nintendo the still-profitable 16-bit market for another year, and essentially sent developers running into Sony's arms. Add the fact that Bernie Stolar told the world that the Saturn was "not Sega's future," and it's no wonder the system tanked.

As for the DC, it could have done well enough on U.S. sales alone, had Sega the money to support it. The N64 was basically dead in Japan and still managed to last a long time, due to great U.S. sales and Nintendo's large cash store. Sega, in contrast, was bleeding money, and couldn't hold out, even though the DC was doing good in America.

Sega won't be releasing any more consoles, as word has it that they've taken a liking to actually making money for a change.

**Push Upstairs** · 04-26-2005, 10:58 PM

I miss SEGA (no, the current version is a shell of its former glory).

I miss thier "risk taking" they they did with alot of oddball and wacky ideas that, in some cases, other companies are only now coming to embrace.

Sega's arcade games rocked. Period.

**CRV** · 04-27-2005, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by goatdan

The 32X actually also did very well as an add on for the first couple months, until Sega all but announced that they screwed everyone who bought it by releasing the Saturn without cartridge support (originally, it had been rumored 32X games could play in the cartridge slot, which would've really, really saved Sega a lot of issues in the US) and stopping development.

The 32X was supposed to be a low-end 32-bit solution for those who didn't want to buy the more expensive Saturn. If you bought a 32X, you probably weren't going to buy a Saturn for a while (at least that's what they initially had in mind). So I don't see the Saturn not having 32X compatibility being a highly relevant factor.

**InsaneDavid** · 04-27-2005, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

There's a few alternate universes out there.

...and the world ascended into 2-d heaven, and everyone from that reality is awesome at shooters and fighters.

...and I'll spend the next 50 years of my life looking for the gateway to that alternate reality.

All I want from Sega is more SegaAges titles in the US and Daytona 3 to actually happen one of these days.

Originally Posted by goatdan

The only thing that is really disappointing to me about losing Sega as a hardware developer is that they were always willing to go out on a limb to develop weird and wacky stuff that no one had any idea if it would work or not.

Such as the SegaCD.

The Dreamcast fell apart due to the PS2 bringing on the DVD revolution - and honestly the best looking thing on the PS2 six months after the launch were DVD's. This pretty much totally killed mainstream DC sales in Japan and once the stream of games out of Japan died, the US market slowly dissolved without it's lifeline... then let us not forget Microshaft stealing Shenmue II in the US and raping the Dreamcast of its swan song.

**-hellvin-** · 04-27-2005, 05:10 AM

I blame the 32x as well. Fishsandwhich pretty much summed it up, if this POS was never released, it would have given the sega cd a much richer lineup. Out of all the 32x games I have, I play one regularly, and there's maybe two more that I actually like. It's pretty funny reading through old sega visions and seeing all the 32x games they had planned and how much they promoted the 100+ titles that were coming out for it and knowing the end result today...lol ;D.

Damn Sony. While I enjoy the ps2 quite a bit, when it comes down to most 2d shooters or fighters, it's straight to the dreamcast. I can not stand the KOF 2000 / 2001 pack for the ps2 compared to the intensely superior dreamcast imports. It's sad that the dreamcast as well as most of sega's other systems met a premature end, but they dug their own grave.

**Promophile** · 04-27-2005, 05:58 AM

All i have to say is that i lost ALL faith in Sega as a system maker after the disaster that was the Saturn. (the system itself was the disaster. It has some VERY VERY awesome games on it).

**goatdan** · 04-27-2005, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by CRV

The 32X was supposed to be a low-end 32-bit solution for those who didn't want to buy the more expensive Saturn. If you bought a 32X, you probably weren't going to buy a Saturn for a while (at least that's what they initially had in mind). So I don't see the Saturn not having 32X compatibility being a highly relevant factor.

If the cartridge slot of the Saturn supported 32X games, then the 32X would've seen more releases. Instead, Sega came out with an add-on that they knew couldn't sell more than the amount of Genesis's that were actively being used, and then stopped supporting it as soon as the Saturn came out. With that cartridge slot on the 32X doing something, Sega could've kept releasing 32X games and when those 32X owners decided it was time to upgrade systems, they would have already had a number of 32X games to play on the Saturn.

It is a relevant point because the reason the 32X was so disappointing and hurt Sega so much was that it was promised to be supported, and then the Saturn came out early and all 32X games stopped. The 32X only had 31 games released for it total, but if it would have been compatible with the Saturn, it would have been beneficial for companies to develop more for it and, even if it had only been 65 releases, it would have been looked at as MUCH more of a success.

Originally Posted by InsaneDavid

The Dreamcast fell apart due to the PS2 bringing on the DVD revolution - and honestly the best looking thing on the PS2 six months after the launch were DVD's. This pretty much totally killed mainstream DC sales in Japan and once the stream of games out of Japan died, the US market slowly dissolved without it's lifeline... then let us not forget Microshaft stealing Shenmue II in the US and raping the Dreamcast of its swan song.

The failure of the Dreamcast to include a DVD player killed a lot of sales that the PS2 got in Japan simply based on the fact that it was one of the cheapest DVD players, but the death of the Dreamcast was brought on equally as much because of Sega's MIL-CD backdoor and the piracy that it allowed. Had piracy not have been as big of an issue, I don't think that Sega would've closed the chapter on the Dreamcast so quickly.

And the PS2 really didn't kill mainstream DC sales in Japan. They have been still pretty solid in the way of shooters and stuff, and even now full releases are coming out there... (just like in the US from the GOAT Store

)

**InsaneDavid** · 04-27-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by goatdan

And the PS2 really didn't kill mainstream DC sales in Japan. They have been still pretty solid in the way of shooters and stuff, and even now full releases are coming out there... (just like in the US from the GOAT Store

)

Agreed, however once the PS2 hit in Japan, the Dreamcast never again would have the lead share of sales / game development. However, as you said, the hobbyist games turned production releases continue to give the system life. I can get more people to pick up used Dreamcast's based upon the homebrew stuff out there now (BoR, emulation, etc.) than I could four years ago when they were $30 brand new in the bargain bin.

**GarrettCRW** · 04-27-2005, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by InsaneDavid

then let us not forget Microshaft stealing Shenmue II in the US and raping the Dreamcast of its swan song.

Or, as I call it, the reason why I won't buy an XBox.

**Ed Oscuro** · 04-27-2005, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by GarrettCRW

Originally Posted by InsaneDavid

then let us not forget Microshaft stealing Shenmue II in the US and raping the Dreamcast of its swan song.

Or, as I call it, the reason why I won't buy an XBox. :D

Xerox sold PARC, you know...does anybody boycott Microsoft products because the people at Xerox were idiots? Here you can't even claim that the Sega people were being foolish, and the XBox had little (if anything) to do with the death of the Dreamcast, really.