The demise of Nintendo is almost upon us!

[FurinkanianFrood]

Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

[lendelin]

Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

[Graham Mitchell]

The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.

a) It DOES have analog control. It uses the sliding tool. It may take a while to get used to, but it works. (Were you a pro with the analog stick when N64 came out? New forms of control always take time to learn, but I think so many people are expecting instant gratification that they quickly dismiss the sliding too. They shouldn't, because, in Mario 64, anyway, it works.).

b) Anyone saying that the second screen is useless hasn't played any DS games other than Mario 64 (in which it really is pretty much useless).

Mr. Driller DS uses it to simulate the long, stretching playfield of the arcade game, and I'm constantly looking at it to make sure stuff isn't going to fall on me.

Warioware has used it creatively not only in cinemas (and believe me, they are cool with the 2 screens) but to elongate the playfield vertically. Several of the minigames do this, and it's really kind of cool.

By far the best use of the second screen that I've seen has been in Yoshi's Touch and Go. The playfield is extended into the upper screen, but you can't interact with anything up there because it's not touch sensitive. This makes it a puzzle; you have to do things on the bottom screen to allow you to interact with the top screen--ie, knock down enemies or items--while keeping an eye on the bottom screen. It makes for a cool effect, and it's an interesting way to play that I haven't really seen too much before.

Also, keep in mind, it's basically the same thing as having the extended horizontal screen when you think about it. The total surface area of the 2 screens is either equivalent, or greater than that of the PSP, and that's one of the things the developers use it for.

[FurinkanianFrood]

Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

I ain't arguing, but I am rather sick of this Nintendo is dying crap.

I just get a wee bit carried away you see....

I mean what I say, I just don't mean to be so frigging mean about it.

I'm a freakin' poet. Or not.

Bring some real evidence that Nintendo is dying and I'll be all ears.

Nintendo's sales figures don't point to imminent doom guys.

Money talks. None of the console manufacturers are anywhere near insolvent right now.

Anyone who says the N isn't Novative (bad pun, whoops!) hasn't played Warioware.

I had trouble dragging myself away from a beat up demo unit the other day.....

I would almost buy a DS just for Warioware.

The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.

Gameplay is impressive. The PSP will always lack titles in this respect. What is impressive about PSP games anyhow?

Funky 3D graphics, eh? What a load....

I admit being intrigued by Lumines, but even as much as I respect and admire Mizuguchi the game is on an overpriced system with naff controls and little in the way of decent games.

[hydr0x]

Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance?

obviously... but you gotta give him this, he's damn good at it

[ozyr]

I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!!

[suppafly]

I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!!

I think we´re reading people´s thoughts here.

If you are sensitive to this kind of discussions, please dont visit the thread. Its as easy as that.

[goatdan]

I meant the marketshare between the DS and PSP, excluding of course the GBA. Let's face it, the GBA will be dead soon anyway.

Well, it all depends how you look at the GBA I guess. It still seems to be having a lot of hardware coming out, and it seems that people are still buying it. If Nintendo is serious about this third pillar business model they keep touting (which they could be if they ever brought out the Palm features, as I've mentioned in the past), then the GBA is around to stay at least a little while longer.

I pointed out that it is not a zero sum game. Expansion on one side doesn't necessarily mean the reduction of the other side in the same amount. Sony will expand the demographics and win some of the so far non-handheld-gamers, BUT it will also severely cut into customers of N as exclusive PSP owners. In other words: Sony wioll get the best of two worlds: the potential of new customers, and the potential to get traditional handheld gamers.

Well, you're stating that the only place where there could be expansion of the market here is from Sony. I disagree. If / when Nintendo ever brings out the Palm OS for the DS, suddenly Nintendo has a true killer app for a completely different market than anyone has ever had before. I've said this before -- the two screen make up for a PDA would be perfect. PDAs, because of how they have been tradionally made, are currently coming in packages with half the power of the DS for two to four times the cost. I have one. I use it all the time to keep track of meetings, to do lists and so on. I wouldn't mind upgrading to a dual-screened, twice-as-powerful with a MUCH longer battery life NDS if it actually had Palm.

I've ranted about that time and time again though. As of right now, it is a moot point and the NDS isn't appealing to a broad market yet. Bring that in, and suddenly Nintendo is going places that Sony can't with the PSP.

I undertsand your valid reasoning, but it is not a hitting counterargument, rather the misunderstanding about terms. I meant with the traditional console business the three major current console systems, regardless of their hyped multi-media abilities. The latter are anyway not important in the long run for the current systems, it is the software and other things. (the Xbox couldn't catch-up with the PS2 despite its DVD playing abilities and superior hardware specs) In ten years from now, the multi-media aspect will play a big role, that is anyway the long-term goal of Sony and MS.

The DVD playing aspect was a HUGE reason that the PS2 caught on in Japan as quickly as it did. The PS2 was one of the cheapest DVD players in the country, so people were buying it to watch DVDs. How many weeks was "The Matrix (movie)" the top selling item that people in Japan bought with their new PS2 systems? Then Nintendo comes along and says that their system won't have the DVD drive but will just do games for nearly the same price.

Japanese consumers said, "Okay... DVD player and game system for one price or just game system for a slightly lesser price?" And thus the GCN didn't sell as well.

The Xbox can't be talked about in Japanese terms because it didn't come out over there until the PS2 had a great grip on the market, and it didn't have games most Japanese gamers were too interested in. In America however, the Xbox is doing great and is selling better than the GameCube... And it isn't just because of Halo. It is also because of the great Live set up that was made and all of the other features that you can get with it. The ability to rip your own music and play it back during games is something that a lot of people really like.

The multimedia functions are very important to a system's success now. And the sooner Nintendo realizes that, the better off they will be.

And the only way that long-term multimedia goal can be acheived by both Sony or Microsoft is through the software. Yes, the software is ultimately one of the most important parts of selling a console... but you can't discount the true extras that are included nowadays. In fact, the reason the Xbox is so full of them is that Microsoft wants the consumer to start demanding more and more from their systems, and Microsoft wants to be there to provide it. Even with the upgrades they have available for the Xbox right now, they are starting to do that.

"innovation" with the "Revolution" is PR-talk by N. I believe it when I see it. The Ds according to N is also a revolutionary system full of innovative capabilities, and I was mistrustful about the PR talk back then, and I'm even more mistrustful after we've seen the little revolutionary machine.

If Nintendo had come through with the Palm OS the way they had intended, I think that it would be more clear exactly how and why the NDS is an innovative system.

I don't know how this new 'console' system will look like and play like and what it will be. It won't be a competitor for the next gen systems for sure according to N officials. Less power, a new control scheme, shorter games, connectivity in a mysterious way, but it won't be a "traditional" console like the PS3 or the next Xbox or the GC.

I wouldn't say that just because a system isn't the most powerful means that it will lose, and I don't get why you keep saying (in this post and others) that now power is such a big part of it.

The PS2 is vastly underpowered compared to the Xbox, and has sold what... 10 times as many consoles?

The NES was a lot less powerful than the other consoles of the time.

The PS1 was less powerful than the N64.

The Genesis and SNES were less powerful than the Jaguar or 3DO.

And the name on the box that you buy really doesn't matter that much. Atari wasn't in dire straights when they started production on the Lynx, and it only cost about $60.00 more than a GameBoy. The GameBoy got a bunch of what people on here would argue were "kiddie" games like Mario. The Lynx got a bunch of arcade ports and some puzzle games and things that, at least at the beginning, were more complex and "aimed for adults."

But the Lynx didn't get Tetris. The GameBoy did. Had Atari actually had those rights, who knows what we would all be playing right now. The "battle" comes down to software, as you've mentioned -- not hardware specs, and not "innovation", but what people want to play.

Will people want to play the Nintendo Revolution? It depends on what Nintendo is selling us on. If it is too far off the wall, no one will care. But I'm sure that there are some innovative things out there that would be very neat for them to do in games, just like if the damn NDS was actually a PDA that would've been pretty innovative and would've been the first handheld I would've wanted. Nintendo could deliver that. Also, from your other post:

You'll end up with red numbers, and N isn't Sega or MS. Sega could take the red numbers for a long time because it was basically privately sponsored by its president, and MS can take the red numbers over some time because of its financial resources. Even MS will go out of the game business in five years if the next Xbox doesn't increase marketshares and profits.

N opted to go out in this situation as long as they are financially sound. They had one healthy leg, the handheld leg, and they will be limping on this leg too now with the PSP as a competitor.

Sega couldn't take the red numbers, which is why they left the hardware industry. They lost money on the 32X, Saturn and then Dreamcast. After the Saturn, there was a huge internal debate if they were going to release the Dreamcast or not because of the financial risk that it would be taking.

Microsoft can and will continue to spend money because as I've pointed out time and time again, they want to be the box that goes between your TV and the "entertainment world." Microsoft believes that in a few years, there will be some sort of box that you will be able to download movies onto to watch, record TV on, play games on, surf the net on and so on... and every time you download a movie or something you'll need to pay a fee, part of which will go to the Interface.

Well, Microsoft already owns the vast majority of computer desktops out there... how can they expand their market? By becoming this box on the TV. Suddenly, any time you want to be entertained you'll be paying Microsoft a nickel or something... and Microsoft will be making a LOT more money. Bill Gates is a visionary, and is willing to spend billions of dollars to get Microsoft in the position to be that company. They won't be leaving any time soon, and it definitely isn't about profits in the next five years. If it was, the current Xbox wouldn't have half the stuff it does in it.

The Nintendo opted to try the 'niche' market because they are financially sound. Nintendo, even selling what they are in the way of the Cube is still managing to make millions from it. Microsoft may be out-selling them, but Nintendo is far out-earning them.

The thing that people seem to be missing with the whole "console wars" business that is going on right now is that the market is MUCH bigger than it ever has been in the past. Because of that, a system that is in third place might not be selling 50,000 consoles a year, but selling 1,000,000 consoles a year. With that many sales, there is definitely room for three consoles in the market. And if Nintendo rolls out something that truly is innovative and that people want to play... something that they can't play on another system, Nintendo will have a decent size share of the market.

Nintendo isn't "down and out." Nintendo isn't "going out of business." Nintendo has simply made a couple bad moves in the last two generations that have firmly implanted them in position #3 in the home market right now. So Nintendo is trying something new that could be a continuation of their bad moves (but which still has the potential to make them money) or it could be a really good move.

[lendelin]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

[LAGO]

After carefully reading over this thread i've come to a conclusion that, I believe we can all agree on! I know it's a miracle but I think i've done it.

And that conclusion is ... insert drum roll ...

Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to coem out for the DS.

[goatdan]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

I completely agree with you actually. I really enjoy conversations like this more than just showing up and seeing that other people founds some excellent games

Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to come out for the DS.

Damn right! I'll admit this much - I like Nintendo as a company. Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console, and I hate the fact that I see all this potential for the DS to be cool and be something that I actually want, but it isn't yet. I wasted $150 on an N64 because Nintendo promised me things that they didn't deliver. Because Nintendo didn't deliver the software to actually make their product into something truly innovative and something that could be a "third pillar," I ended up with something else instead of holding onto hope that Nintendo would ever bring out the Palm OS.

I want to like the DS, really... I do. But without the extra features being a little more usefull... blah.

[sabre2922]

I agree with Lendelin and Goatdan I enjoy a good discussion and debate especially when it concerns my favorite hobby wich is VIDEOGAMES.

If someone doesnt like the topic or think its "beating a dead horse" then take the time to create a NEW equally interesting topic and dont bother reading the posts that you may think is a waste of time.

In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl

I hate censorship and I cannot stand those (even though it is thankfully a very select few) who get on this board and start calling every and any topic that doesnt interest them or seems to "offend" them in some way "RETARDED" or THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE LOCKED

One of the few reasons a topic should be or may be locked is if its basically a double post of a previous topic and we all sometimes make that mistake I know that I do so I started using the search on the board on a more regular basis.

[Archenemy]

Until someone takes it personal, I don't see any reason to lock up these particular kind of threads.

Is Nintendo doomed?
Who will lead the next Generation?
Who sells more?

Personally- I don't give a dime. I am more on the retro edge and I just play the games I like. Incidentally I have to purchase the game console in order to play those games.

I used to be a big Nintendo boy. Now I am stuck with the Saturn. Call me grampa if you like, I just don't find any real pleasure in the 3D games nowadays.

My two cents? I hardly like the DS. I just got one, it takes a while to get used to it. As a matter of fact, I still haven't got used to it.

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility?

I am stuck with my Nomad as well. IMHO the best portable game console ever. (Schedule? Movie player? 3D Graphics? My old Laptop can do that much better and still has a bigger screen )

So: May the PSP be whatever you want to make it. Yup. I once wanted one, simply because I am (as I can deduct from another post) that kind of strange "odd-man-out" guy who collects portables and has almost all portable stuff (except of the Game.com that just doesn't catch my attention- yet) but a PSP definatly is NOT on my priority Top Ten. I will sooner or later have one, but not today my friends

I find a little hard to read all the opinions. I respect all of them but I don't share some of them.
You want to start a Flamewar? Go ahead, Make my day. I don't find any pleasure in the sight of two suppossely grown up and mature users tearing each other appart, but I cannot stop it either. I am not a moderator :P
You want to close it because you don't like the topic? Simply: read the title, don't you like it, DON'T YOU READ IT EINSTEIN

Anyway I am getting lost in all this nonsense. I just want to sleep

Remember:
The believer does not need proofs. The esceptical will never get enough.

[FurinkanianFrood]

I just find the idea that Nintendo is dying far fetched for the time being.

If you enjoy debating it that's cool. Sorry I flew off the handle. I don't have any desire to see these threads locked, I just can't figure out why they show up.

Everything is speculation about the Rev. All signs point to Nintendo's continued existence.

Dan explained it all beautifully.

I guess I am just sick of hearing about the death of N because.

1. Some people outside DP actually use it as an excuse to favor N's competitors products (I've run into these people mind you.)
2. I have never heard a rational argument that points to an imminent crisis for Nintendo.

There are legitimate discussions to be had about the future of Nintendo. All of the hyperbole about how they are dying is what ticks me off.

When will their market share stop falling is a valid question indeed.

It's been said further up, but let's not forget about the new Zelda. That will sell. Like hell if it won't. Zelda + Backwards compatible Revolution seems like an interesting combo don't you think? And they did say it was back-comp.

There is a limit to how far N will push things I think.

They aren't housed in a mental institution last itme I checked. Then again, they may be unwilling to give up on their dreams of innovation, no matter how mad they seem.

If that's the case I will just hate their competitors even more for killing off their dreams, and mine.

I'm proud to be a fanboy. I am not a N fanboy, as I said.

I am a fan of game companies and a hater of companies that destroy them.

Nintendo may die someday, but they will put up much more of a fight then some peopl suggest.

There is hope. Why do people try to crush it?

If I didn't feel the same fears as the guy who started this thread I wouldn't be so ticked off, would I?

Anti-Nintendo propaganda/FUD sucks. Theres no way around that.

[FurinkanianFrood]

Sorry about the double, it wouldn't let me edit, and I had a few more things to say.

If you look at the posts above my first one in this thread, there is a load of BS.

These are some of the things that prompted the response I gave, along with explanation.

1. The DS has already lost. Speculation treated as fact. (read the post above mine carefully mind you, they aren't as blunt as mine). Go PalmOS!!
2. Foregone conclusion. Someone said that N's death isn't speculation and that it is a foregone conclusion. WTF.
3. Anyone can see that they keep making the same games over and over, eh? Who doesn't? (I know there are good answers but that's a rhetorical question, and those type devs have little influence on mainstream sales) It wasn't Nintendo that truly pushed the industry in that direction IMO.

Truly innovative companies get the shaft year after year. Why shouldn't I be upset when people contribute to this?

Technosoft made Herzog Zwei before all the companies that use RTS games as personal mintsmade theirs. What did they get other than jack shit.

People are entitled to their opinions, but I have the right to get irritated when I feel that they are trolling/contributing to the lack of appreciation for games made for gamers.

Only in very rare cases do I actually want any threads etc. locked.

In closing, I get upset because I don't like seeing trolls spread FUD all over these boards.

I don't censor trolls. I just feed them till they (I?) explode.

Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console

You have a good point there Dan. To be honest I refused to touch the thing until it was like $20 used somewhere.

I only own 3 N64 games to this day. (Mario 64, Zelda:OOT, and Paper Mario for those curious)

And yet people accuse the Jag of having no games. Compared to some systems it has a lot IMO.

The SMS was better than the NES IMO, and the SNES is my least favorite system of that gen (I like Genny and PCE better). Not that those were bad systems.

I don't have many Gamecube games. I was annoyed by the pacing of Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, etc. I had trouble coming to terms with Metroid in 3D. None of them are bad games by any stretch of the imagination though.

Some need to look harder at the alternative before they harp on Nintendo.

Even if the DS fails it doesn't necessarily mean the PSP is gold.

I like speculation. I don't like "we're all freakin' doomed."

And as for your concerns about the DS Dan, I'm just wondering which games you have tried so far. I haven't bought one myself. I like Warioware but I'm not buying the system for it.

Over time things may improve quite a bit.

The PSP hasn't exactly set the US market on fire yet. Here's hoping for some nice games in the pipeline.

If portables are going to be as expensive as Sony wnats them to be it's time to get the NGPC, Lynx etc. I've
always wanted.

Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

I am hysterical. However, please notice that you speculate about the Revolution and then say it isn't speculation. Vague hints are not facts.

Don't assume market share is the main issue. Money is. When I see evidence N is going insolvent I'll stop complaining about this.

And if I live in a dreamworld, at least I have enough hope to dream of a world where gaming isn't being murdered by Sony. Why are there so many people into the retro stuff soem may ask?

Gaming for gamers is dying. The great systems of the past are immortal.

If the PS3 defies my expectations and Sony does not make a fatal error, you may be correct about the N.

The Genny was a huge success, and the Saturn (sadly) bombed in the US.

Too many assumption are being made.

If things keep going down this path there will be a reckoning. Another crash is possible.

Everyone thinks I'm barking mad, but Sony's hubris could crush the industry some day.

Now I am stuck with the Saturn

I'm really stuck on it myself. Best system ever IMHO.

I In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl

Unlike some end it now people, I didn't really mean for the topic to end. Just end the BS about imminence (of N's demise, not theologically speaking) being a foregone conclusion. I won't let this topic die either bwahahaha!! I like your style actually.....

This topic can live until the matter is settled, which if I have my way will be never.

It's like the freakin' Highlanda dude. Nintendo is fo eva. A kind of magic or a prince of the universe even....

[portnoyd]

To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?

This thread is not awesome.

dave

[MegaDrive20XX]

What does this thread teach us?

1. Never, oh never. Talk shit about Nintendo to a pack of hungry wolves who may end up naming their first born child after a Nintendo character probably.

2. Especially at DP.

3. You will end up with verbal scars for the rest of your experience here at DP.

And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits. Sega didn't die, they just got some freakin smarts and knew when the shit was too deep to handle. That's why they were called "The Rodney Dangerfield" of the game industry, we get no respect! Yet went out peacefully and quietly...with a "nice" debt behind it...which has been sloved for some time now.

[FurinkanianFrood]

[insert arguments against Stop this crap now posts]

While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?

Which is why I said it was crap (the origins and such). Goatdan did a nice job of saving the thread IMO. There are things to discuss that are relevant.... However, all the arguments have been made.

In the end, it just depends on what happens in the future.

I do worry about such things obviously, but no one knows what will happen. It's just that I worry about how console companies success/lack thereof impacts game development.

Of course, the real problem is that mainstream consumers have awful taste in games. I just can't shake the pattern (which to me looks plain as day) that appears to connect Sony systems with substandard games and even more with a distinct lack of truly great ones IMO.

I think it's really a matter of preferring a level of simplicity and elegance that the mainstream no longer values.

It's the continuation of a slow degeneration that has been inevitable since the crash, even if this could not be fully foreseen.
Games just become less and less like they once were. There is no TEH DOOM to make a TEH DOO about of course.

Newer Nintendo systems are still good, but as games move in certain directions they lack something intangible that bothers me. Even if I can't find a flaw in a newer game, something is there mocking me.

As much as I love the DC, DC games don't have the feel of Saturn games.

The main issue I have probably just stems from my preference for 2D games. Also, I much prefer 3D games with simpler, more intuitive controls. I don't like having to use too many buttons (there are some cases where it works, but not all that often) and I don't like using 2 analog sticks, ever (unless there is a damn good reason, and that doesn't save anything on PS/PS2 because those sticks are horrible IMO, whether one or both are used).

And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits.

They had no other way out of course. I still buy Sega games regularly as long as they are on a system worth owning.

I think ya know what I mean by that. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.....
I still need to buy Spikeout from somewhere, ack.....

This thread is not awesome.

What are you talking about? it pwns d00d

This thread needs to stop. Let's let it die and start a new one for real discussion about N's future if we so desire, kay?

The way a thread starts determines it's future. "OMFG Nintnedoo is croking" just leads to a thread that will keep getting turned back into a mess any time someone decides they want it to revert back to how it started.

Don't make me get started with the downward spiral (media convergence/increased costs passed on to consumer/lack of viable development/ consumer disalllusionment/etc.) leading to second crash crackpot theory here.

Beware the crash of '06!! Bwah.. forget it.

This thread isn't even worth parodying anymore. (It never was.... but I'm really tired and bored)

[Amy Rose]

I've never bothered posting in one of these threads before, and I haven't read it the whole way through either, because I have one of those new fangled 5 second attention spans. SO. Here is my 2 cents based on snippets of text that caught my eye.

1. Holy shit, there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys here.

2. the PSP and DS both do nothing for me right now, BUT how the shit can you judge systems so early on in their life? No games out currently interest me besides the Sega one and the Yoshi one, and those only because I've been a Sega and Yoshi fan for a long time now. Wait 6 months, then maybe, just maybe, you'll be justified in trashing the DS.

3. Whoever said the N64 was a waste of money/had a handful of good games... I agree. The only game I had for my N64 for over TWO YEARS was Zelda: OoT, once again an old franchise. Damn, I love that game. Later on I got Majora's Mask and Yoshi's Story.

4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

5. Now I know why I don't come into threads like this :P

Interesting point before submitting: I bought my brother a DS recently, and I have a strange feeling that I might have to buy him some GBA games to go with it instead of the great DS games I was hoping for. Sigh. I really wish Nintendo would stop disappointing me.

[Ernster]

I cant believe there are people who think the N64 was a waste and only has a few good games.....have you played the bloody thing

[Push Upstairs]

4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

Although i have seen worse (much worse), this i believe to be true.

I always get the feeling its "okay" to bash Sony and Microsoft because people don't consider them REAL video game companies. Like somehow the big bad companies are taking some mild interest in the next "big money making business" and that at a moments notice are going to lose interest and quit.

Yet somehow because Nintendo has been making games for many years they are "cool" because they are the last game company and that somehow anything they crank out is "keepin' it real" for all the video gamers in the world.

Nintendo is just as likely to screw up just like everyone seems to pray MS and Sony will.

[Algol]

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.

[spider-man]

I would like to also put my 2 cents in. Nintendo won't be going anywhere for a good number of years (at least 10). The problem is though, imo, (I don't know if someone already stated this) that most of the sales for games on nintendo systems are from nintendo games (similar to what happened to sega). Yes third party should make better games, but when they do and still get crapped on the buying public, what motivation is there to continue making games for that particular console (or not going the multi-console route). If I remember correctly, RE 4 completely bombed in the US (it should be interesting to see how the sales are for the ps2). The n64 and GC had strong starts, but slowly fizzled (game selection/shelf space in the stores (gives the perception to the buyer to avoid that "crappy" system)) out. If the DS doesn't come out with More games that really put the touchscreen to good use (such as: Ganbare Goemon: Toukai Douchuu), it may end up like the virtual boy. Also, the typical consumer wants better graphics rather than (unforunately) better innovation. With the release of the PSP and the upcoming next gen systems, this will hopefully increase nintendo's drive to succeed, which will in turn afftect other companies (thus making them more competitive=better games).

[Archenemy]

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.

Yeah, whatever, you didn't even quote me correctly Let's talk about someone who jumps into a thread and adds nothing to it in order to earn more meseta...

As far as I can remember, I NEVER EVER wrote I wanted a GBC. I do own all GB (Original GB, GB Pocket, Japanese GB Light, GBC, Pokemon GBC, GBA) and I NEVER said I wanted to play ONLY GBC- I said that the DS ONLY played GBA.

You have to either buy new glasses or learn to read and comprehend before posting- or even better, to refrain making such aggresive comments against sombody who was adding a point about the issue instead of jumping out of the blue and pointing something that does not have ANYTHING to do with the thread.

BTW PS2,XboX, don't hate them. I just don't like the mainstream games nowadays as someone just told before. x_x

I sense that the common mainstream games are just lacking the refinement of the old days- PLEASE NOTICE: I did say SENSE, I don't have any real basis to debate, so please save all of us of the harassment of trying to debate my poor point of view as it cannot be defended, ok?

[Promophile]

sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads .