Come to think of it, last time I checked there still wasn't a very good Saturn emulator out there, even though the Saturn specs probably are very inferior to most modern PCs.
Come to think of it, last time I checked there still wasn't a very good Saturn emulator out there, even though the Saturn specs probably are very inferior to most modern PCs.
I doubt there will be another game crash as in '84, but i'm sure they'll be a slump at some point when the new generation of systems come out. I blame this on Nintendo being to proud to bow out of the console war. The market can't support 3 systems and if the Phantom turns out to be real and comes out that will make 4. People don't buy systems due to capabilities or gameplay these days, there simply loyalists. They simply want what's most popular at the time. Nintendo should keep Handheld support and concentrate on being a 3rd party developer for the next generation of systems, they should just come to grips with reality and concentrate on making good games like Sega.
No, the Saturn has not been emulated. I'm waiting for a good one so I can save some money and just buy the games instead of the system and everything else that it needs.
The Dreamcast does'nt have one either, and of course the modern systems can't be handled on the current systems.
"Four o'clock and all is well.....wish I was in bed, Sir."
-- Guard in the Imperial City, Oblivion
I don't think emulation or piracy has anything to do with it. There will only be another crash if and when the generic consumer gets savvy and stops forking over money for shovelware. I don't see that happening any time soon.
You are startled by a grim snarl. Before you, you see 1 Red dragon. Will your stalwart band choose to (F)ight or (R)un?
Re: The Next Game Crash. You Are At Fault.
It aint happening. Click the link if you want to read more.Originally Posted by Gunstarhero
"Basically...here is the gist of what I just said...PS2, Dreamcast, and especially Gamecube emulation is not going to happen on the XBox. It just can't handle it. Granted one could be made, but it would be so slow and ugly it wouldn't even be worth the effort."
Quite an interesting take on the issues plaguing the industry.
Game companies alone are responsible for all the crap out there now...it's unfortunate that 2 million+ sales is the figure required to constitute a real hit these days, but that's the cost of making games for the new platform. I'm not sure if budget releases are the way out, either...Nintendo realizes that if you can sell a lot of very small, made-in-a-day games on a cheap format (e-Reader) that you can possibly make a bunch of money, but I'm not sure if they've used that as they would like to. I'm not sure, but I'm wondering if the release of Zelda Four Swords for GameCube is the beginning of a trend for Nintendo to start selling retro-style games. It would be very cool, the games wouldn't be as costly to produce (though some requirements, such as CD audio, won't change...the reduction in price wouldn't be as small as you might expect), but it's hard to say that would work, either.
Essentially, the cost of the format is as big an issue as anything these days. Smart software companies are still flocking to the GBA because it's a relatively simple platform to develop for.
I would like to see a study done on how much emulation and piracy hurts the industry. I will say that figures for the Neo Geo should be compared separately to GBA which in turn shouldn't be lumped with figures for classic games (emulating which hurts sales of classic games compilations), or current gen console piracy.
The Neo Geo is indeed in an unfortunate situation, which is undoubtedly a core reason why SNK seems to be looking at the Atomiswave as next system of choice. I don't think SNK can complain about users who emulate both Samurai Shodown 0 (or Spirits V, whatever) and SvC Chaos, but buy one of them. They have a right to punish all the folks who emulate both games, though...these types unfortunately outnumber the people who buy games legitimately. I will say that the Neo Geo scene and cart pricing is comfortably high for collectors, but from the POV of somebody who wants to get in the hobby, being able to find old Neo Geo games for $20 but being assured new releases will be out of your price range forever is ridiculous. I'd like to see a home Atomiswave system from a gamer's standpoint, but that would of course be screwing over your arcade operators. Would that be profitable in the long (and short) term? Probably not, but it might be possible to make more money off players. The issue, however, is (once again) that of cartridge pricing for the Atomiswave system.
Oy vey...
Final comment, however, is that I find it rather humorous that the topic title is accusing everybody here at the forums of being contributors to the decline of gaming in recent years...the system is screwed up, and if you aren't emulating old games, you're missing out on a lot. I don't much respect those who don't actually make a commitment to go out and buy the actual games, but I don't much care for new compilation packs either(unless you're an arcade operator with a MAME cab...license that thing!) because they aren't the real thing.
One thing is true: game development companies are fighting with the basic issue that games are supposed to be fun and "come from the heart," but that they must meet market demands and set up a virtual assembly line...their projects must be very complex to even compete with other titles out there. Then, their users hinder them. It's as perfect a human tragedy as you could possibly create.
shovelware
What is all this talk about shovelware?
There are plenty of FANTASTIC titles out there, and constantly more on the way. If we survived the FMV of the 90s, we'll survive any misdirected trend in gaming from here on out.
Even bad games are enjoyed by the multitudes. It's not like bad music ruined the music industry.
Video Games are here to stay boys. Put down your 'end of the world' signs.
i'm not going to read all the replies. So, if i repeat what somebody has already said, just skip it. So here goes:
You will never be able to emulate a system, on another system from the same generation. You sure can't play N64 on a PS1, the power just isn't there. If you can't play genesis or snes on a ps1....that should say enough. the newer consoles stepped up quite a bit in power which will leave it's likelihood of being emulated in the far future(emulated on another system or machine). the ps2 and xbox run around 700 mhz, so if the next console was around 2.5 ghz.....it could be possible. i'm not sure, but i was thinking the cube was around 500mhz.....I can't back that in any way, it just seems right, or close. And, the NES will run on virtually anything because it only ran around 10mhz, and I'm not sure on that. But it is something near that. So anything around 100 mhz should run it, given the right emulator. Some emulators require more juice for all the features they contain. I do know for a fact that the NES emu Nester(no longer updated) ran on my original Pentium(166mhz) flawlessly, so NES emulation takes very little. And it runs on PS1 which runs around 33mhz...and I am pretty sure about that.
Meanwhile, back at the xbox scene. You will never see ps2 on an xbox, because they are having extreme difficulty running N64 and PS1 games on it. It IS happening, slowly and not surely. Some run, some don't. It's very shakey right now. I happen to emulate an awful lot of stuff and I think those that emulate things have full intention of spending the money on the stuff when it is available to them. I have loads of NES roms and the ones that I actually play, or plan to. I do own them, I just found another NES game, via emulation, that I really thought was cool. I now have intentions of buying it. I probably won't play the game for another 6 months, and I will probably obtain the cartridge in the next year.
While there are lots of emulation lovers, like myself, that are willing to pay big bucks for the xbox mod(yes, it does cost a good amount of money and time) and at the same time willing to go buy the real deal.....there will always be a good share of people that will sell all their old systems and pay for the xbox and the modification. These are the same people that sold their collection when they found emulation for the pc. I truely enjoy owning the real deal. I would much rather play an NES game on my top loading NES but sometimes space restrictions don't allow. I don't have room for all the clutter, so as it sits in boxes.....I still get it out a couple of times a year to play it. Usually around christmas when my friends come around and it's much more fun with the real controller in hand, IMO.
I don't see a video game market crash, but I was born during the first one, so my opinion really doesn't mean anything. I think it would be caused by all these crap games that come out if it did happen. I'm not going to go pay for these crap games that I want to test out when I get them for free....but when I truely love a game, I am more than happy to go and pay good cash for them. I have a gamecube collection, 41 games or so at last count. And I just bought a gamecube this past fall, before the price drop, I might add. Which says that I've spent some big bucks on GC games, I would lean towards atleast $600 since I blew $200 in one week on roughly 8 games. I love GC so much recently, and I blame it on the fact that all the crap never makes it to GC. So, Nintendo's misfortunes, IMO, really did help them. If you look at how many total crap games are released for the PS2 or Xbox, versus the GC....it's amazing, to me. There are lots of high quality, exclusive titles, for GC and I really love it. Viewtiful Joe and Mario Kart come to mind....
But that's just my own two cents and I probably left something out, but that's all I have to say...
If anything can stop this industry now, I would say it's anti-piracy efforts. If the industry's methods of attempting to prevent piracy become too much of a burden on the honest consumers, they'll simply boycott the industry until it gets over itself. That's why CD sales are down right now. The people don't give a fat rat's behind if the RIAA "lost" money that it never would've made anyhow to piracy, anymore than they care at all if any other industry suffers a "loss" for the same reasons. The hype about piracy is just that, it's HYPE.
Industries want to whine and complain about not being as rich as they think they should be, and point the finger at everyone but themselves, because they know it's their own fault, they just don't want to admit it. If your prices are reasonable, people won't feel compelled to steal from you. If your prices are insane, people will find ways to screw you right back. And whining about it is only gonna make them that much more likely to hit you where it hurts.
Of course I understand the industry's position, but they fail to understand the economy. Joe Public is not a bottomless pit of cash burning a hole in his pocket. That's what the industry is. So when the industry complains about how much money that it "lost" while still making an insane profit, this means about as much to the average consumer as a politician's campaign promise.
What I see happening is the digital industries getting so paranoid about some people getting stuff for free that they're alienating their paying customers. Nobody wants to have to enter an authorization code every time they want to play a game, and nobody wants to have to pay a fee every time they want to play it either, but the industry honestly thinks that this sort of thing is the answer to their "problems". So what's gonna happen is they're gonna come up with all these new inconveniences for the honest consumers, the pirates will still hack their ways around them all, and the only thing they're gonna accomplish is irritating their paying customers to the point that they're not willing to pay for their products either. And then what will the industry complain about? Who will they blame? Well of course it will still be the fault of piracy, because that's what made them do it in the first place.MAO
Just lower your prices, and get over the competition from piracy. If you sell your stuff as cheap as the pirates do, what makes you think that people are still gonna prefer pirated goods over official goods? The average consumer will always prefer the real deal over the knock-offs, but as long as the cheap imitations are virtually indistinguishable from the originals for a fraction of the price, most people are gonna save as much of what little money they have as they can. It has nothing to do with ethics, it's all about economics, baby!
On a side note, the whole thing is mostly just a big scam that the industry itself is playing on the people anyway. They whine a complain about piracy being the reason why their prices are increasing, and yet the pirate's only source for their wares is the industry itself. How can anything be leaked to the internet before the official version is even released, if someone in the industry doesn't supply it in the first place? I realize that sometimes things are stolen to facilitate piracy, but more often than not, it's an inside job. The pirates pay their moles less than the moles get paid by the industries they work for, and yet piracy still thrives because again it's all about economics. There will always be people who will do anything for a quick buck, just as there will always be people who will do anything just to save a few bucks.
However, I would venture to say that with all the hype going on about piracy these days, it's probably an actual unofficial part of the industry's business model. They supply the pirates with their goods to keep them in business, so they can keep raising their prices for the sake of "fighting" them. It's the same scam that our own government has been pulling on us for years. Supply the drug cartels with whatever they need to stay in business, so they can keep raising our taxes to "fight" the war on drugs. The guilty dog barks first. Piracy is a problem because the industry wants it to be a problem. Without the "threat" of piracy constantly looming over the average consumer's heads, how will the industry justify raising it's prices? That's precisely why we're hearing so much more about piracy now than we were in the past. It's no more prevalent than it ever was, it's just a side business for the industry itself now, but they want us to think it's a threat.
Just watch. Even after they've implemented all these expensive new tactics for "fighting" piracy, it will still be an even bigger threat than it was before, because somehow those darn pirates will still be making more money than the industry itself is. They will never admit that they are the true pirates!
uhh
those numbers are not really true
The following are just main-cpu specs (no co-cpus,graphic processors etc)
X-box: 733 Mhz
Gamecube: 485 Mhz
PS2: 300 Mhz
NES: we.. 10 Mhz would be awesome but the reality is 1,79 Mhz
I'm sure there'll be a slump, but not so sure of a crash. Everything goes in cycles, skateboards, BMX, YoYos, Tamagotchis, Pokemon & so on. Sooner or later, people will become bored with the current trend, whatever it is.
There are too many lookalike 'me-too' games on the market. Developers are having to limit themselves to what they know the publishers will be interested in marketing, so the industry will spiral down and bite its own butt. Today, you'll have a hard time pitching a brand new type of game with anything less than a very broad appeal.
I can only play a game so many times, no matter what it looks like. Unreal Tournament and Quake III were excellent, MOH was nice, as was Voyager Elite Force and AvP2. But they were essentially the same game in different clothes. So I'm jaded myself.
It's unfortunate that the machine's gears and cogs work this way. As games need more staff and more money to produce, the price on the High St. remains high. As niche-market games are cancelled in favour of mainstream guaranteed sellers (licensed titles & Lara Bloody Croft), the view gets narrower, the games just clones of one-another. It's not a good time to have a truly original idea for a radically different game.
Maybe a break will do the industry good. Perhaps there are too many PS2s in circulation and the kids could do with a little sunlight and exercise.
(edited to improve grammar)
Personally, I think one of the greatest things about marriage is that as both husband and father, I can say anything I want to around the house.
Of course, no one pays the least bit of attention.
Those main CPU specs are rather meaningless when shown together. Clock speeds are hardly comparable between different processor architectures. (A 1 GHz Pentium III is going to be a lot more than five times faster than a 200 MHz Pentium I.)
By the way, weren't several of the most recent Neo Geo games encrypted? How come that didn't stop anyone?
I stand corrected, and I just remembered the NES being pretty darn slow. I also knew the xbox was around 700, and I thought the PS2 was around the same. But it's obviously not and I knew that the GC was around 4-500. The NES figures for 10 must have come from one of our members that was trying to juice the core of his NES, if anybody remembers that. I'm pretty sure he got his going around 10 mhz, so that games like SMB 3 didn't have that nasty slow down. But I do stand correct and I was somewhat, in a way....reasonably close on my figures with a few being way off....but it doesn't hurt the picture or my message that much as a whole.uhh
those numbers are not really true
The following are just main-cpu specs (no co-cpus,graphic processors etc)
X-box: 733 Mhz
Gamecube: 485 Mhz
PS2: 300 Mhz
NES: we.. 10 Mhz would be awesome but the reality is 1,79 Mhz
I personally don't think there will be a Large Market Crash, but possibly a small one that would have minor effects. As the Giant Electronics/Computer companies take over gaming once and for all (/me puts on Flame Retardant Suit on, Sorry Nintendo Fanboys) people will still be buying games. Gaming is in the mainstream enough now in ways moreso the the last 2 Generations, it's back to the Insane popularity of the NES. Compare the PS2 and the Nes, they're the most technologically Uncapable, but are winning due to sheer popularity and outside support. M$ Have an unlimited bank account and are going better then nintendo at the moment, so they aren't going. The only Crash that may happen is in Portable Gaming, because Sony May dominate that Ala PSP. That would be a definate loss, losing Nintendo, because It would just be sega all over again...
Emulation cannot kill the market, because only Full Geeks use Emulators. Mr Average Joe Gamer doesn't know a thing about emulators, so there is no harm in that.
Bottom Line, The Market in no way is heading for a Crash
I can understand your point, but i'm not a FULL geekI know a little bit more than your Avg. Joe and I think alot of people on this board fall into the Full Geek because we all use emulators for one reason or another, or at one point in time. and finally, I haven't heard anything about the PSP....but if it doesn't in some way incorperate current playstation customers, I don't see it doing very well. But does anybody know anything about it?
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