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Thread: PS2 and the new Gen

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    I figure none of the old posts, before the designation changed from modern to classic would move. considering because when those posts were made they were while it was considered a modern system.
    how ever new posts in modern about PS2 would happen for a while but eventually people will get the idea like they did with xbox and gamecube, and move them or slowly migrate over to classic.
    theres always a time where they will cross over but it shouldn't matter a whole lot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niku-Sama View Post
    I figure none of the old posts, before the designation changed from modern to classic would move. considering because when those posts were made they were while it was considered a modern system.
    how ever new posts in modern about PS2 would happen for a while but eventually people will get the idea like they did with xbox and gamecube, and move them or slowly migrate over to classic.
    theres always a time where they will cross over but it shouldn't matter a whole lot
    This is my thinking as well.

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    the 15th nears, what do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    If we're going to bring up computers, does anyone actually consider computer hardware from the year 2000 to be classic? Or is it just old?
    I think you hit it. "Classic" is a loaded term which is why this debate is going on. When we talk modern gaming, what we mean is "contemporary," "right now," "current." That's easy enough to nail down. But with something like the PS2, which to anyone over 20 still feels like yesterday, calling it "classic" sounds strange. Classic to who? The PS2 definitely isn't current but that word "classic" is probably what's bothering people.

    But ultimately it's six of one, half dozen of the other. Either Classic Gaming starts to encompass more and more consoles as they slide into it or Modern Gaming does if it keeps firm with the year 2000 divide. But I think the one thing about the 2000 divide that I find weird is that it splits the Dreamcast and PS2.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 11-13-2013 at 02:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Just because some stores still sell PS2 stuff (you brought up Walmart...there's no PS2 stuff in any walmart I've been in for several years now. It must be an American thing in major cities only?
    Nope, the Walmarts I've been to don't have PS2 stuff and haven't for a long time, with the exception of the red/blue memory card 2 pack with a clearance price tag on it (but the price still not a very "clearancy" price) and crappy games no one wants in the giant "just throw everything we can't sell in here" discount bins. And even those have been gone a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlastProcessing402 View Post
    Nope, the Walmarts I've been to don't have PS2 stuff and haven't for a long time, with the exception of the red/blue memory card 2 pack with a clearance price tag on it (but the price still not a very "clearancy" price) and crappy games no one wants in the giant "just throw everything we can't sell in here" discount bins. And even those have been gone a while.
    To be fair, it's somewhat regional. I looked around for PS2 games at my Walmart the other day and found plenty. Clerk mentioned that they still had boxes of $10 PS2 games in the back, they just toss them on the shelves or the bargain bins as space filler.

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    I didn't dig through the bargain bin [Edit: I've since looked and it's all 360/PS3/Wii/DS], but after speaking about it in this thread, I checked the latest availability at the Wal-Mart closest to me to see if what I said still applied where that particular store was concerned. Still has GTA Trilogy and the Mortal Kombat Collection on the shelves for $20 or so each. Fewest it has ever been so I'm sure that the day is coming soon where I can walk into the average Wal-Mart and not see anything for the PS2.

    Was tempted by the GTA collection. But since I own the Xbox counterpart, I'd of never played it anyways with nicer looking versions with custom soundtrack support available to me.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 12-08-2013 at 12:05 PM.

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    I was at a Toys R Us today at lunch and they still had maybe 20+ different bargain and clearance PS2 games in the glass display cases.

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    They could just make a new section called "Current Generation Gaming". Anything 3DS, Vita, or WiiU-related would have to be moved, but then it would be easy to consider systems as "packets". Anytime the next console generation starts, merge "current" with "modern" and start with a clean "current". The problem is this boat left the harbor when the WiiU came out, so it would take a bit of work. If the technology behind the entire forum allows for categorizing threads by system-type, then making a "marker" to tell which system a thread is about when it's created would be the perfect solution. You make a thread about PSP and before it's published, apply the PSP "marker". Now the search feature should be able to filter out threads without the "marker" when you check the PSP box in the search tool. That would make it easy as 1-2-3 to backport all the PSP threads into modern now that the Vita is out, and then do it again to classic when the Vita 2 or 3 comes out. Of course then we'll need a "vintage" or "antique" category as well, .

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    I just think DP did it to themselves by creating two subforums with incredible vague descriptors. I propose "Current Gen" - "Last Gen" - "Classic"

    That would be very easy, and of course you could tweak those titles to make them sound a lot nicer.

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    What about the handhelds? GBA was basically like a portable SNES before SupaBoy existed, plus it's now showing up on clones such as the RetroN 5 and Retro-Bit's adapter. DS and PSP also had a lot of N64 and PS1 ports on them, and despite being listed as 7th gen, they came out much earlier than the 7th gen consoles, especially the DS which is nearly a decade old.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFStudios View Post
    I just think DP did it to themselves by creating two subforums with incredible vague descriptors. I propose "Current Gen" - "Last Gen" - "Classic"

    That would be very easy, and of course you could tweak those titles to make them sound a lot nicer.
    I kind of like this idea as well. Gen 7 is still pretty modern, but being the longest console generation as well as some systems now ending production (like the Wii), on top of the aforementioned handhelds leaves a bit of gap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. BaconStein View Post
    What about the handhelds? GBA was basically like a portable SNES before SupaBoy existed, plus it's now showing up on clones such as the RetroN 5 and Retro-Bit's adapter.
    The GBA includes the FX chip on board, unlike the SNES, a 32 bit gaming system that also contains GBC hardware.

    SNES

    CPU reference
    Processor Ricoh 5A22, based on a 16-bit 65c816 core
    Clock rates (NTSC) Input: 21.47727 MHz
    Bus: 3.58 MHz, 2.68 MHz, or 1.79 MHz
    Clock rates (PAL) Input: 21.28137 MHz
    Bus: 3.55 MHz, 2.66 MHz, or 1.77 MHz
    Buses 24-bit and 8-bit address buses, 8-bit data bus
    64 kB[e] of SRAM for storing video data (VRAM), 544 bytes of object attribute memory (OAM) for storing sprite data, and 256 × 15 bits of color generator RAM (CGRAM) for storing palette data. The PPU is clocked by the same signal as the CPU, and generates a pixel every two or four cycles. Both NTSC and PAL systems use the same PPU chips, with one pin per chip selecting NTSC or PAL operation.


    GBA

    CPU: 16.8 MHz 32-bit ARM7TDMI with embedded memory. 8 or 4 MHz 8-bit Z80 coprocessor for Game Boy emulation.
    Memory: 32 kilobyte + 96 kilobyte VRAM (internal to the CPU), 256 kilobyte WRAM (outside the CPU).
    Resolution: 240 × 160 pixels (3:2 aspect ratio).
    Color support: 15-bit RGB (16-bit color space using 5 bits depth per channel), capable of displaying 512 simultaneous colors in "character mode" and 32,768 (215) simultaneous colors in "bitmap mode".
    Sound: Dual 8-bit DAC for stereo sound (called Direct Sound), plus all legacy channels from Game Boy. The new DACs can be used to play back streams of wave data, or can be used to output multiple wave samples processed/mixed in software by the CPU.

    Similiar, but the fact that it's a portable forgives the uderpowered specs for the generation that it's in.
    Last edited by buzz_n64; 11-22-2013 at 01:17 PM.

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    What if the overall forum were divided by decade by North American release-date in accordance to console hardware? So there'd be separate forums for 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's, & 2010's consoles/hardware/games. For example, the PS3 still has games being released today, but its console was originally released in N.A. in the 2000's, so all discussion about the PS3 and its games would go into the 2000's Forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nz17 View Post
    What if the overall forum were divided by decade by North American release-date in accordance to console hardware? So there'd be separate forums for 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's, & 2010's consoles/hardware/games. For example, the PS3 still has games being released today, but its console was originally released in N.A. in the 2000's, so all discussion about the PS3 and its games would go into the 2000's Forum.
    Over complicating a simple problem. Either leave it how it is, or move some of the systems from modern to classic. Hold a vote if you must.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nz17 View Post
    What if the overall forum were divided by decade by North American release-date in accordance to console hardware? So there'd be separate forums for 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's, & 2010's consoles/hardware/games. For example, the PS3 still has games being released today, but its console was originally released in N.A. in the 2000's, so all discussion about the PS3 and its games would go into the 2000's Forum.
    In theory I like your idea, but it does complicate things like the Genesis and SNES. In Japan 1988 and 1990 respectively, but from the same generation. Maybe 3 sections? Vintage, classic, and modern?

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    In my opinion the last thing this place needs is three main discussion forums. There's not really enough activity now to even justify the divide we already have. If anything, condensing Classic and Modern going forward should be what we're looking towards to encourage those that largely ignore one of the two to partake in discussions they otherwise wouldn't of by exposing them to the topics they'd miss and hopefully catching their interest.

    So whatever is done, if anything, I hope it doesn't increase the number of forums. Changing the forum definitions might be a good idea, but adding hoops to jump through just to look through new posts with our modest forum traffic isn't going to do what's left any favors like if we went to a decades scheme. Our crowd, for instance, partakes in occasional Atari 2600 conversation that sometimes adds up to multiple pages even today with the current scheme. But push it to a 70's forum and I guarantee you might see one thread every few months at best and that it will be a rare day that a topic surpasses a half dozen replies.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 12-07-2013 at 02:37 AM.

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    That modern gaming has now gone 24 hours since my reply with it still being the 3rd most recent post in this section and that just two other threads have seen activity since then (One thanks to me bumping it) kind of illustrates what I'm getting at better than I could ever express in words although it usually isn't this slow.

    Fragmenting things would be disastrous to the classic gaming forum that still has some life in it. I'm not even sure that limiting this area to current gen and the preceding generation of discussion like is being pushed in here would be a good idea since at least there's a bit more subject area to help sustain the modern gaming forum by it encompassing discussion of the PS2 and its contemporaries (even if we all don't agree that they qualify as modern gaming any longer).
    Last edited by Leo_A; 11-24-2013 at 09:03 PM.

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    At first I was against the idea of changing the forums, but thinking on it more and typing up a reply convinced me I could go either way.

    It's not a matter of whether or not they still sell the game in stores or not. It's a matter of what I expect when I open a forum called 'Modern Gaming' or 'Classic Gaming':
    - For 'Modern Gaming' it does feel weird to see PS2 stuff in there.
    - For 'Classic Gaming' it also feels weird to see PS2 stuff in there.

    If I were in charge I might re-consider how/where I draw the lines. Maybe have multiple forums, splitting them up into decades/'generations' or something else. Having said that, of course, I don't like the idea of splintering conversation *too* much. Which of course leads me back to my original statement: nothing seems obvious, so I could be convinced either way.
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    I think a system becomes retro when games are no longer being mass produced for them. I say that because there are new games still being made for older systems like the Dreamcast. But I would go even further to say that it's split up to more than just two groups though.

    Classic: Atari 2600, Itellivision, Odyssey, etc. Basically, all the pre-crash systems.
    Retro: NES and Master System up to the PS2, X-Box, and GameCube. Pretty much anything post crash up the current generations.
    Current: PS3, 360, Wii and up.

    I know, I only included mainstream systems, but it gives you and idea. At least that's how I feel about how they break down.
    Atari: 2600, Jaguar
    Microsoft: XBox, XBox 360
    Nintendo: NES, GB, GBC, SNES, N64, GameCube, GBA SP, Wii, New 3DS, Wii U
    Sega: SMS, Genesis, Game Gear, Nomad, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast
    Sony: PS1, PS2, PS3
    Wanted: 7800, Neo Geo CD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_A View Post
    I can go to my local Wal-Right right now and buy brand new Dual Shock 2's, brand new 1st party memory cards, and a small variety of PS2 software that's still sticking around (Not to mention brand new games are still being released although they seem to largely be online exclusives around the world). Some of you folks were ready years ago even when new PS2's were everywhere and games were regularly coming out.

    If that's not modern gaming, just what is? To me, classic gaming is when all but a select few have left the console behind and mainstream retailers and the manufacturers have ceased any sort of support since there simply isn't a customer base left to justify it any longer. That makes far more sense than an arbitrary standard that if it's two generations out of date then it's classic gaming. It's far too subjective a subject for that sort of a standard I think and not every system from the same generation experiences the same lifespan. And when there's signs it's not even completely dead commercially, I certainly think that here's a bit of room for debate.

    That said, I'd be comfortable shifting related discussion at this point to the classic gaming forum. I just don't think that it's un-debatable that it's not still modern gaming.
    Couple things:

    -Stores like Walmart, Target and Best Buy still got PS2 games, yeah, but most of it consists of games that are 4-5 years old, way overpriced, not in demand titles or all of the above. My nearest Walmart store still has multiple copies of about 10 different PS2 titles, none under $10 in price and most priced at $20. They include 2 skiing titles, two 3 pak releases (the MK & GTA collections), one Eye Toy game, 2 racing games and a summer olympics game. None of them is the last copy left in the store. That store doesn't even have EA or 2K titles left, such as the last couple Madden, NBA or MLB releases.

    -Not to mention retailers like them have been dabbling in used games (including PS2 titles). Half the stuff available from those three chains in retail mentioned above is preowned, especially online. We can't put a hold on reclassifying a system as "Classic" just because some retailers still have unsold PS2 games that they likely ordered too many of

    -Think of all the retail stores that were sitting on copies of the later day PS1 releases up until just a few years ago, games like FIFA 2005, Madden 2005 and Gameday 2005. In fact, retail chain Meijer is still sitting on new in the shrinkwrap PS1 stock on their web store today. See below.

    http://www.meijer.com/s/nba-shootout...tion/_/R-19134

    -Hasn't been a US PS2 release since Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 over a year ago. Fifa 14 and PES 2014 haven't been released in the US and neither of them are going to be. Bottom line.
    Last edited by bangtango; 12-07-2013 at 01:15 PM.

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