Recent NES black box sales

[portnoyd]

I would like nominate panzerfuzion for Internets User of the Century of the Week. Serious win in every post. Where have you been all our lives?

Onto the topics at hand.

Concerning the reselling/flipping trend, 10 years ago, we had these things called TRADEBOXES and we actually TRADED with them! Crazy, I know. Sure, you can make direct bank for more purchases but you give up the true community aspect that builds by trading with people where both parties get something they want out of it and you talk with someone more than you haggle with them. Believe it or not, 10 years ago, we didn't price everything here for a reason. WTT has given way to FS.

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles. The one idiot who is buying up said black box games like very expensive candy, is the reason why. Based on what others posters have said here, since he seems to be one of the uneducated masses who use eBay as the sole metric (likewise, Etler's list as a guide - yes, these people still exist), you have to wonder what motivated him to spend so much on what we, the educated masses, would call a foolhardy investment.

And what's to stop the next person like this one to do the same, but spend more? Or what is going to stop him from using his wallet as a weapon on loose and complete titles? People like this will just follow the ones before them as they don't know any better... and things keep going up. You can't really say that these people will keep blinders on to other areas of collecting as well as be discrete with their purchases especially when they are not as educated collecting-wise as everyone who has posted in this thread. If you don't know any better, and you just saw someone spend $25k on a sealed Baseball (if you're not involved in the community, you'd never know he negotiates down!), would it make sense that you could think the value of baseball is even some percentage of that now?

Next: Why did sealed blackbox man make that decision to go wild with his money?

Due to the recession, traders and investors have moved from stocks and commodities to collectibles. And game collecting has made itself the perfect environment to enter. Prices show strong growth. There is a perfect dispersion of rare titles and popular ones to keep your options open. Nostalgia fuels bringing new collectors (and their disposable income) into the fold. VGA has arrived and made more quantifiable tiers to approach beyond loose, complete and sealed. Not to mention the Nintendo method for sealing games brings an identifiable (H SEEEEAMMM!!11) and relatively easy (compared to Genesis especially) way to confirm legitimacy.

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

As someone who has benefited, and might I say greatly, from the increase in prices, I don't necessarily like it. The entry point to NES is constantly going up and new collectors are constantly having to short change themselves to collect like a lot of us did in the past. I am an old collecting fart, no doubt about it, and I know times change but I would want nothing to stop new collectors from experiencing what I did because it was great. It really has gotten to the point where old timers like myself are the ones who got driven to school and the new collectors had to walk 5 miles in the freezing cold to get there. That just doesn't jive with me and it all goes back to the point of skaar's posts.

Collecting is no longer a hobby. A hobby is for relaxation and enjoyment. Collecting is now an investment. And see how that worked out for the comic book investors back in the 90s. Which is why, if you are concerned with the value of your collection, you should have the trigger finger on Turbolister to sell everything locked and loaded. It's like the Price is Right, as close to without going over. I don't have my trigger finger on anything - I'm just observing now and trying to collect while dodging the insanity. I hope when the dust settles, everyone who posted here is too, fwiw, it'll show me that you were here for the right (that being, what I feel is right) reasons.

I genuinely hope it crashes down so it goes back to being an accessible, fun hobby again.

[skaar]

I want you to fully understand that any grammar errors that you might have come across are completely beside the point. The message as a whole is what i want you to except into your life, i want you to fully come to the realization that we are not alone and together in this simulated civilization we can unite. The force of words are sometimes beyond my control but if you view them in a way that is acceptable to the world around you then your life shall be a fulfilled sense of self-worth. You will be able to become an old man without shame or regret from your past transgressions.

*hug*

[Panzerfuzion]

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles.

An extremely educated and astute point, this at it's core is the basis of the frustration over high priced sealed collecting.

[Buyatari]

An extremely educated and astute point, this at it's core is the basis of the frustration over high priced sealed collecting.

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Sure some people overprice their common games. So what. These games don't sell because they are overpriced and the seller is eventually forced to drop the price or hold them forever. Sealed black box games selling for 25k may create some higher asking prices on loose Top Gun carts at the flee market but it won't create higher sales.

Other than "shit I should have picked up more of these when they were cheap" I just don't understand why anyone would care esp to the degree that people do. If you do meet someone who is convinced that loose NES systems are now worth $500 I like to say "ok buddy I have 20 to spare how about I sell them to you for $50 each?"

If the most you want to spend is say $50-$60 (price of new retail game) and you just want to play the game there is very little in the past 5 years that has gone from affordable to unaffordable. Some loose games have even gone backwards. Hundred dollar games are now several hundred and thousand dollar games and now several thousand but most $10-$30 are still $10-$30

Loose copies of NES Punchout, Tecmo Superbowl, Contra, Zelda 1&2, Super Mario 1&2&3 have all gone nowhere in fact if you ask me they have gone down a bit in price. The only games that have really gone up in price are those that were already expensive anyway.

[Buyatari]

I would like nominate panzerfuzion for Internets User of the Century of the Week. Serious win in every post. Where have you been all our lives?

Onto the topics at hand.

Concerning the reselling/flipping trend, 10 years ago, we had these things called TRADEBOXES and we actually TRADED with them! Crazy, I know. Sure, you can make direct bank for more purchases but you give up the true community aspect that builds by trading with people where both parties get something they want out of it and you talk with someone more than you haggle with them. Believe it or not, 10 years ago, we didn't price everything here for a reason. WTT has given way to FS.

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles. The one idiot who is buying up said black box games like very expensive candy, is the reason why. Based on what others posters have said here, since he seems to be one of the uneducated masses who use eBay as the sole metric (likewise, Etler's list as a guide - yes, these people still exist), you have to wonder what motivated him to spend so much on what we, the educated masses, would call a foolhardy investment.

And what's to stop the next person like this one to do the same, but spend more? Or what is going to stop him from using his wallet as a weapon on loose and complete titles? People like this will just follow the ones before them as they don't know any better... and things keep going up. You can't really say that these people will keep blinders on to other areas of collecting as well as be discrete with their purchases especially when they are not as educated collecting-wise as everyone who has posted in this thread. If you don't know any better, and you just saw someone spend $25k on a sealed Baseball (if you're not involved in the community, you'd never know he negotiates down!), would it make sense that you could think the value of baseball is even some percentage of that now?

Next: Why did sealed blackbox man make that decision to go wild with his money?

Due to the recession, traders and investors have moved from stocks and commodities to collectibles. And game collecting has made itself the perfect environment to enter. Prices show strong growth. There is a perfect dispersion of rare titles and popular ones to keep your options open. Nostalgia fuels bringing new collectors (and their disposable income) into the fold. VGA has arrived and made more quantifiable tiers to approach beyond loose, complete and sealed. Not to mention the Nintendo method for sealing games brings an identifiable (H SEEEEAMMM!!11) and relatively easy (compared to Genesis especially) way to confirm legitimacy.

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

As someone who has benefited, and might I say greatly, from the increase in prices, I don't necessarily like it. The entry point to NES is constantly going up and new collectors are constantly having to short change themselves to collect like a lot of us did in the past. I am an old collecting fart, no doubt about it, and I know times change but I would want nothing to stop new collectors from experiencing what I did because it was great. It really has gotten to the point where old timers like myself are the ones who got driven to school and the new collectors had to walk 5 miles in the freezing cold to get there. That just doesn't jive with me and it all goes back to the point of skaar's posts.

Collecting is no longer a hobby. A hobby is for relaxation and enjoyment. Collecting is now an investment. And see how that worked out for the comic book investors back in the 90s. Which is why, if you are concerned with the value of your collection, you should have the trigger finger on Turbolister to sell everything locked and loaded. It's like the Price is Right, as close to without going over. I don't have my trigger finger on anything - I'm just observing now and trying to collect while dodging the insanity. I hope when the dust settles, everyone who posted here is too, fwiw, it'll show me that you were here for the right (that being, what I feel is right) reasons.

I genuinely hope it crashes down so it goes back to being an accessible, fun hobby again.

I just don't see it. Sure certain items have gone up in value WAY up in some cases but the vast majority of videogames are very afforable. For someone starting videogame collecting today there are so many games to collect under $50 or even under $20 that most will never reach the end of say a complete collection of every videogame priced under $20.

I don't understand why things are no longer fun because of this. Times have changed for sure but as some older games go up in price lots of newer games are going down in price.

[Panzerfuzion]

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Sure some people overprice their common games. So what. These games don't sell because they are overpriced and the seller is eventually forced to drop the price or hold them forever. Sealed black box games selling for 25k may create some higher asking prices on loose Top Gun carts at the flee market but it won't create higher sales.

Other than "shit I should have picked up more of these when they were cheap" I just don't understand why anyone would care esp to the degree that people do. If you do meet someone who is convinced that loose NES systems are now worth $500 I like to say "ok buddy I have 20 to spare how about I sell them to you for $50 each?"

If the most you want to spend is say $50-$60 (price of new retail game) and you just want to play the game there is very little in the past 5 years that has gone from affordable to unaffordable. Some loose games have even gone backwards. Hundred dollar games are now several hundred and thousand dollar games and now several thousand but most $10-$30 are still $10-$30

Loose copies of NES Punchout, Tecmo Superbowl, Contra, Zelda 1&2, Super Mario 1&2&3 have all gone nowhere in fact if you ask me they have gone down a bit in price. The only games that have really gone up in price are those that were already expensive anyway.

You have to understand that paranoia is a fear manufactured by the enemies that lie within, unless we decided to stand up for our civil rights as collectors the crimes perpetrated against us will never end. Money is only an object created by the inception into our thoughts, the continued movement forward will only further pixelate our minds. Like a sonic wind thrust upon us by the demons of the past we will only be eternally rewarded when the men whose deeds are unholy are pushed into the streets by the heroine's who have the unadulterated power to do so. This is beginning of a great revolution where the past becomes present and the present becomes clean once again.

[Buyatari]

You have to understand that paranoia is a fear manufactured by the enemies that lie within, unless we decided to stand up for our civil rights as collectors the crimes perpetrated against us will never end. Money is only an object created by the inception into our thoughts, the continued movement forward will only further pixelate our minds. Like a sonic wind thrust upon us by the demons of the past we will only be eternally rewarded when the men whose deeds are unholy are pushed into the streets by the heroine's who have the unadulterated power to do so. This is beginning of a great revolution where the past becomes present and the present becomes clean once again.

Drugs are bad.

[Griking]

My understanding from a thread on another site is this is all one guy and he goes back after he hits the BIN and negotiates the real price. Having said that, I understand that he is still way overpaying, at least compared to recent previous sales of the same titles. Sadly, this happens in every hobby from time to time and I suppose if there is any positive it's that somebody made a nice profit and it has no impact on the rest of us.

I haven't read all of the responses so I apologize if this has already been asked. So how does a person bid on this many items and then expect the seller to negotiate on what he's really planning to pay and still keep his eBay account? A bid is a bid.

[Jaruff]

Hindsight is everything. Instead of spending money to go to technical college several years ago, I wish I had invested that money in Apple. I'd be better off today. However, I didn't and that's tough fucking shit.

Same with games. That's why I'm thankful my mother bought me everything Sega and Sony as a kid; they're two of the few brands I collect. Prices are (usually) cheap and merchandise is readily available.

With regards to hoarding, I'm guilty of it too. I'm already hoarding certain items from this generation; good investments 5-10 years from now when the economy (should) be great and today's kids will have jobs and disposable incomes.

[peeingas]

"I haven't read all of the responses so I apologize if this has already been asked. So how does a person bid on this many items and then expect the seller to negotiate on what he's really planning to pay and still keep his eBay account? A bid is a bid. "
Ebay gives the buyer much too much power now

[Panzerfuzion]

Drugs are bad.

3 words is all you have, and you insult me with a cliche saying that's been around since before both of us were conceived. Just because my lyrical poetry is to much for you to comprehend in your current state please let me assure you that the clarity of my words will one day rain upon you like a glorious golden shower of extacy. Stay well my friend.

[Jaruff]

I haven't read all of the responses so I apologize if this has already been asked. So how does a person bid on this many items and then expect the seller to negotiate on what he's really planning to pay and still keep his eBay account? A bid is a bid.

That's quite simple. You're dealing with large numbers; if someone is throwing five figures my way, I'm going to tolerate a higher level of assholishness because that's a lot of money.

[Panzerfuzion]

I think the moral of this thread is to require immediate payments.

[Buyatari]

I think the moral of this thread is to require immediate payments.

If you sell a game like baseball which prior to all this was worth ehh 3-4k for 25k and someone actually hits the BIN and then says well I'm only going to pay 15k do you really say no if the best you feel you can do outside of this is 3-4k?

You could I suppose stick to your guns but most sellers realize that this is still a good sale.

[wiggyx]

3 words is all you have, and you insult me with a cliche saying that's been around since before both of us were conceived. Just because my lyrical poetry is to much for you to comprehend in your current state please let me assure you that the clarity of my words will one day rain upon you like a glorious golden shower of extacy. Stay well my friend.

you misspelled douchebagery.


Now that the tech for producing fakes is so readily accessible at a consumer level, I've gotta wonder how many (more) well crafted fakes are gonna find their way into the market? I could pretty easily create some relatively solid fakes here in my house. It makes me wonder how many "sealed" VGA rated games out there have a copy of SMB/Duck Hunt stuffed inside :/

[skaar]

[Buyatari]

you misspelled douchebagery.


Now that the tech for producing fakes is so readily accessible at a consumer level, I've gotta wonder how many (more) well crafted fakes are gonna find their way into the market? I could pretty easily create some relatively solid fakes here in my house. It makes me wonder how many "sealed" VGA rated games out there have a copy of SMB/Duck Hunt stuffed inside :/

They have seen quite a few fakes and it is not as easy as you think. Not only does the plastic have to be just right so does the cardboard and the weight. A black box game opened just once cracks the black paint.

[Panzerfuzion]

you misspelled douchebagery.


Now that the tech for producing fakes is so readily accessible at a consumer level, I've gotta wonder how many (more) well crafted fakes are gonna find their way into the market? I could pretty easily create some relatively solid fakes here in my house. It makes me wonder how many "sealed" VGA rated games out there have a copy of SMB/Duck Hunt stuffed inside :/

Friend, there is no reason to project your own shortcomings in life on to me in the form of such vile anger. Let's breakdown your name wiggyx, whats the meaning of it? Is it a acronym? The Middle name of a past girlfriend? A Cry for help? Let's disregard the X at the end and pretend you added that because you were having a drunken nostalgia trip over the early 2000's. So basically what we are left with is wiggy.

You used 3 words in your verbal assault against me, the 3rd letter in the alphabet is C. C is the creative force coordinated and communicated through words. The first 2 images that show up in google when i type wiggy are "You can touch my wiggy" and "Ask me about my wiggy" so I'm guessing your name was created under the rationale that no one would know it was you talking about your penis unless they were part of a homosexual underground movement. And that your verbal assault against me was just an underlying agenda to secretly try and get me to sleep with you. Well my friend while I have no qualms with your life choice I have to respectably decline your sexual advances.

[lakerstowin]

Yes they are. I've seen it in the "Collecting" market my whole life. I have collected Comic Books since I was a kid and lived through the boom of the 1990's. The stupid amounts people were paying for "Rare" items that had over a Million print run was stupid. Market crashed and all those "Stupid" prices dropped to pennies. Same thing happened to Baseball cards in the 90's. Move to the late 90's and early 2000's and Beanie Babies. Same damn thing. Stupid prices for ugly little bean bag toys. Now, you can't give the damn things away. Remember Tickle Me Elmo? Zsu Zsu (SP?) Pets? "Collectors" always pay stupid amounts of money for crap that isn't really rare. It's all in the perception of the buyer. Then again, these are obviously people that have way too much damn money to spend on stupid crap they don't need. mind you, I understand playing games and keeping the ones you like and play, but buying a game just for the sake of owning it for no other reason than to just pop it on a shelf in a plastic box just to say you have something rare . . . I never did understand it. And before I get the argument about works of art and all that nonsense, remember, art serves it's purpose; It was meant to be looked at and appreciated for it's brilliance and workmanship. Comics are meant to be read, toys to play with, and Video Games are meant to be played. Plain and simple, nothing more, nothing less.

Could not have said it better myself. even if I had went to grammar school!

[jonebone]

I don't even know what to reply to. At first I was heated, then I was confused, then I felt the need to accept Jesus Christ into my life, and then I felt like I was in 9th grade English class, practicing alliteration.

Couple of points:

1) Many collectors, including myself, still prefer to trade over selling. Even though Rarebucky is often outed as being evil for his reselling practices, I've still done at least 4-5 trades with him, while purchasing absolutely nothing. You only see sales data publicly through eBay, but there are many trades behind the scenes that never get talked about. I will always prefer to trade, it's just hard to trade sealed games to loose collectors and vice versa. You usually have to collect the same medium.

2) Sealed games can only affect loose prices on genuinely rare games. If Stadium Events jumps from $30k sealed to $300k sealed, then yeah the loose cart is probably going to get bumped up. But if Baseball goes from $2k to $25k to even $200k, the cart is probably still going to remain under $5. It's so abundant that the sealed price has no affect on it. You can make the argument that a hoarder would try to buy every Black Box sealed to drive up prices, but buying every single Black Box loose cart is impossible. You can walk into any flea market or thrift store and probably find at least a Golf for $1. Hoarders are naturally drawn to rare sealed / rare CIBs, but carts are simply too plentiful. Even hoarding rare carts would probably be a bad idea, though I'm sure there are people that have tried.

3) I agree that this "hobby" has become more like a part-time job nowadays, but that's the nature of the beast. Nothing stays the same forever, and you either evolve, move on, or just stop and watch the fireworks. I haven't seen any big collectors truly sell off their entire collection, so most people are evolving or watching to see how it pans out. For the game market to crash, you'd have to see several people unloading their large collections at the same time. I just don't see that happening...

[portnoyd]

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Did I mention NA in my post at all?

Funny that you call my post overly paranoid when you come up with a 'plot' that involves something that I didn't mention.

All I'm saying is this. Look at the chart on the right side.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

A 50% jump over 2 years ago, a 37% jump over a year ago. That has to count for something.

[BeaglePuss]

Edit: Fuck it, I couldn't be bothered at this point.

[Genjackson]

Are you saying that you would rather own a sealed Duck Hunt cartridge over the unreleased one of a kind Socks prototype?

Not talking about reselling just owning.

Imagine you could find one of these items at a flee market for $10 but would not resell it. You can only have one so which one would you pick?

I'm not trying to bait you. I'm really curious which one you would rather own.

I'd go with the duck hunt. Prototypes are cool, but I would want something I could easily turn a profit on. There's a bigger market for duck hunt.

[Buyatari]

Did I mention NA in my post at all?

Funny that you call my post overly paranoid when you come up with a 'plot' that involves something that I didn't mention.

All I'm saying is this. Look at the chart on the right side.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

A 50% jump over 2 years ago, a 37% jump over a year ago. That has to count for something.

According to that chart the average loose NES game is now worth about $12. Where do I cash in?

The expensive have gotten more expensive and the affordable are still affordable. If you average those two for sure the average has gone up but in reality only a few have gone nuts. The popular games people ask for at my store to play have gone nowhere in price.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/game/nes/contra

[wiggyx]

They have seen quite a few fakes and it is not as easy as you think. Not only does the plastic have to be just right so does the cardboard and the weight. A black box game opened just once cracks the black paint.

Oh, I know it's no easy task. Those guys on Nintendo Age know how every seam should run, how every corner should bunch, how thick the shrink wrap should be, how snugly it should cling to the box, etc.

I'm not saying I could make a perfect fake, but it's a LOT easier than it was just 10 years ago for an amateur to get away with something like that (most of the time). You could arguably use the info that the Nintendo Age guys provide against them. They very publicly call out fakes and site the correct info about packaging while doing so. If a bootlegger were at all savvy, then they'd be keeping an eye on such communities for exactly that kind of info.

I guess I'm really just concerned that it may become a larger issue than it already is, and it could serve to saturate the market of sealed games as well as its potential to bring negative attention to game collecting, which could lead to new laws and legislature regarding the sale of used and new-used games. It's already a touchy subject, and the big 3 HATE used game sales (Sony especially, based on what I've read).

Friend, there is no reason to project your own shortcomings in life on to me in the form of such vile anger. Let's breakdown your name wiggyx, whats the meaning of it? Is it a acronym? The Middle name of a past girlfriend? A Cry for help? Let's disregard the X at the end and pretend you added that because you were having a drunken nostalgia trip over the early 2000's. So basically what we are left with is wiggy.

You used 3 words in your verbal assault against me, the 3rd letter in the alphabet is C. C is the creative force coordinated and communicated through words. The first 2 images that show up in google when i type wiggy are "You can touch my wiggy" and "Ask me about my wiggy" so I'm guessing your name was created under the rationale that no one would know it was you talking about your penis unless they were part of a homosexual underground movement. And that your verbal assault against me was just an underlying agenda to secretly try and get me to sleep with you. Well my friend while I have no qualms with your life choice I have to respectably decline your sexual advances.

We are not friends. But, if you'll touch my wiggy, I think we could work something out

Edit: Fuck it, I couldn't be bothered at this point.

It has become a tad overwhelming...