WD's Victor Ireland is Back! (Oh, And He Wants Half-A-Million Bucks.)

[Press_Start]

Can you say the same thing about Vic Ireland? Can anyone?

Well, it's more contributing to the idea than to the man itself. That's the sentiment I'm reading from the comments at Kickstarter and even if it fails, it's feels like the next non-tradition avenue for gamers hungering for good games to be part of the process that 95% of the industry has flat out ignored and/or underestimated for the last 28 years. With 300K+ pre-orders rumors for Xenoblade looming abound (200K according to VGchartz), this "lost" market is becoming a growing presence day by day possibly beyond what Operation Rainfall aspired as there's already talk about getting Fatal Frame IV/2 Remake over here by building awareness of Spirit Camera in hope the sales will warrant FF's localization in the states.

[Bojay1997]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though? I mean Class of Heroes was released for the PSP and it wasn't a financial success, at least not enough to justify a follow-up release from Atlus. Frankly, I bought it at launch for full price and played it for a few hours and then never played it again. It just wasn't a great game IMHO. Many of the commenters on the Kickstarter site and on other message boards seem to agree.

It seems like we are getting tons of obscure and niche games from publishers like Atlus, Aksys, Ignition, NIS, Rising Star which is now going to be releasing Cave shooters over here, Xseed and several others. Heck, even Bandai Namco is getting into the swing of it with Dark Souls. There are also lots of opportunities for digital only releases on services like XBL and PSN. Sure, there will always be games that never make it over from Japan, but there are also lots of really bad and mediocre Japanese titles that have limited appeal to any audience. It's really no different than any other product like movies, magazines, books, etc...Not everything is always going to get a worldwide release and generally, if something has mass appeal or at least can result in profitability, it will eventually make it out over here.

The reality is that videogames are a business and while Kickstarter has been interesting over these past few campaigns, there are other ways to do the same thing which don't involve paying large percentages to Kickstarter, paying taxes on the contributions and everything else that essentially sucks up the same amount of money as a distributor might on a more traditional release. My big concern with this specific campaign is that the company already has funded or has funds to do the digital release. All they are really looking to do is to make a few small changes to the save system and the controls and then create a deluxe physical release. That doesn't require $500K or a Kickstarter campaign. They could have simply taken pre-paid orders at $60 a pop and gone from there. It's not like they are building something from the ground up which is what both the Double Fine and the Wasteland 2 campaigns agreed to do. Essentially, they are asking for our support so they can avoid any risk with sticking some swag crap in a box for the release. That's not exactly the kind of thing that's going to convince anyone to invest more in obscure niche releases since most video game companies don't make their money off the swag, they make it off the software itself.

Well, it's more contributing to the idea than to the man itself. That's the sentiment I'm reading from the comments at Kickstarter and even if it fails, it's feels like the next non-tradition avenue for gamers hungering for good games to be part of the process that 95% of the industry has flat out ignored and/or underestimated for the last 28 years. With 300K+ pre-orders rumors for Xenoblade looming abound (200K according to VGchartz), this "lost" market is becoming a growing presence day by day possibly beyond what Operation Rainfall aspired as there's already talk about getting Fatal Frame IV/2 Remake over here by building awareness of Spirit Camera in hope the sales will warrant FF's localization in the states.

[TonyTheTiger]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though? I mean Class of Heroes was released for the PSP and it wasn't a financial success, at least not enough to justify a follow-up release from Atlus. Frankly, I bought it at launch for full price and played it for a few hours and then never played it again. It just wasn't a great game IMHO.

Beggars can't be choosers. It's an unfortunate reality but small publishers don't get the pick of the litter. While you're always trying to make sure to avoid picking up genuine crap, sometimes you have to pick from the leftovers that might fall short of AAA, the games that nobody else wants and can be licensed on the cheap. Working Designs itself dealt with this when they localized the likes of Vay and Albert Odyssey. Hardly great games but you do your best and hopefully get more out of it than you sunk in and just maybe if it works out you'll have better options down the line. And that's arguably why Victor Ireland is pushing deluxe packaging and all the bells and whistles. It's very easy for an ok game to get completely lost in the shuffle. What are you supposed to do to stand out if you know the only games available to you are merely decent?

[Bojay1997]

Sure, but that's my point. The market already dictates that many good niche games get released over here and the ones that aren't as good ultimately don't. The great thing about digital services is that titles that may only sell thousands of copies can become financially viable based on a revenue sharing model and by minimizing localization costs and cutting out the physical distribution costs. Yes, as a collector I don't like it, but as a gamer it's really pretty perfect.

Let's be honest, whether this campaign fails or succeeds, Vic and his start-up are not going to change the way the industry operates. Trying to make up for the fact that you have a mediocre game by slapping a bunch of mediocre game related swag in a box and then going the extra step of asking people to take away all the risk by covering your costs up front isn't a sustainable model. The next game he does if this one gets fully funded will also be a lower end title because ultimately, if the market is proven to be there, bigger developers will keep stepping in and releasing stuff just like Bandai Namco did with Dark Souls.

Working Designs was a great company at a time when the industry was less willing to take risks with Japanese product. Thankfully, those days are largely over and there are many, many companies out there who do the same thing WD used to but in many cases better and without the silly Westernization that he is talking about doing to this particular release. Has everyone all of a sudden forgotten about his Clinton jokes or OJ references in games? It's not like he respected the integrity of the original product with any great discipline.

Beggars can't be choosers. It's an unfortunate reality but small publishers don't get the pick of the litter. While you're always trying to make sure to avoid picking up genuine crap, sometimes you have to pick from the leftovers that might fall short of AAA, the games that nobody else wants and can be licensed on the cheap. Working Designs itself dealt with this when they localized the likes of Vay and Albert Odyssey. Hardly great games but you do your best and hopefully get more out of it than you sunk in and just maybe if it works out you'll have better options down the line. And that's arguably why Victor Ireland is pushing deluxe packaging and all the bells and whistles. It's very easy for an ok game to get completely lost in the shuffle. What are you supposed to do to stand out if you know the only games available to you are merely decent?

[theclaw]

This method isn't for "good" niche games. It best fits the exceptionally out there ideas. Those serious risky games most people outside fan circles would never buy. If hear about at all. Letting companies more directly gauge users' financial interest in a project.

With the traditional preorder model, usually it's too late to back out. The company has already spent many resources on development and licensing first. Only in rare cases do they cancel a game once preorders are open or even shipped to stores. We don't need an NBA Elite 11 repeat. Besides there's no telling how many preorders placed will be picked up.

[Bojay1997]

This method isn't for "good" niche games. It best fits the exceptionally out there ideas. Those serious risky games most people outside fan circles would never buy. If hear about at all. Letting companies more directly gauge users' financial interest in a project.

With the traditional preorder model, usually it's too late to back out. The company has already spent many resources on development and licensing first. Only in rare cases do they cancel a game once preorders are open or even shipped to stores. We don't need an NBA Elite 11 repeat. Besides there's no telling how many preorders placed will be picked up.

Sure, but a company can always do what anime publishers and even companies like Studio 38 just did with Amalur and require that the collector's editions be paid off 3-4 months in advance. That way, they know exactly how many to press in advance of the 4-6 week lead time needed to create various promo items and packaging.

[kupomogli]

Sure, but that's my point. The market already dictates that many good niche games get released over here and the ones that aren't as good ultimately don't.

No it doesn't. The market dictates what will more than likely get sales, not whether the game is any good or not. There is a lot of shit that's on all consoles and portables this gen, more than any other generation. Like many other generations, there's a lot of great games that don't get released here, some of which I've played, others of which are quite obvious as they're practically the same game with revions of others that I've played. Most are PSP games, but there are DS and PS3 games as well. A lot of these games are much better than most of the games that we do receive.

The next game he does if this one gets fully funded will also be a lower end title because ultimately, if the market is proven to be there, bigger developers will keep stepping in and releasing stuff just like Bandai Namco did with Dark Souls.

Dark Souls didn't come to the US by Namco Bandai deciding to get into releasing niche titles, it came to the US because Namco Bandai wanted a western style franchise that didn't bomb like the previous four from western developers.

[theclaw]

Oh right. Afro Samurai trying to start a new publishing label failed terribly at doing that sort of thing.

[Bojay1997]

I always find it fascinating when people make this claim that there is this vast supply of great games out there that never get localized. When you then ask them for some examples, it's always some obscure JRPG or other niche Japanese title that probably didn't even sell well in Japan and which is another rehash of the same old formula. Are there some great games that never get localized? Certainly. Are there tons? Nope.

The video game business is probably the most globally oriented of all mass media with the possible exception of films and even then, the distribution usually flows from the US to the rest of the world and far less frequently the other way. Many of the top developers and two of the three major manufacturers of hardware are Japanese companies. A significant percentage of games on every platform except perhaps the Xbox 360 and to a lesser extent the PS3 are developed by Japanese companies. Simply put, publishers publish what will sell and be profitable. Any business with any goal other than that is headed for bankruptcy and is not a business at all. Fortunately, gamers are smart consumers and generally buy games that are great. Poor quality games just don't sell well. Word of mouth ends up killing them. Just ask Acclaim and more recently THQ which is hovering the bankruptcy drain.

Namco Bandai picked up Dark Souls because Atlus did tremendously well in the US with the earlier game Demon's Souls. I don't see how you can argue that either game is a Western oriented game. They are niche to an extreme and yet because they are great games, they both sold quite well.

No it doesn't. The market dictates what will more than likely get sales, not whether the game is any good or not. There is a lot of shit that's on all consoles and portables this gen, more than any other generation. Like many other generations, there's a lot of great games that don't get released here, some of which I've played, others of which are quite obvious as they're practically the same game with revions of others that I've played. Most are PSP games, but there are DS and PS3 games as well. A lot of these games are much better than most of the games that we do receive.



Dark Souls didn't come to the US by Namco Bandai deciding to get into releasing niche titles, it came to the US because Namco Bandai wanted a western style franchise that didn't bomb like the previous four from western developers.

[Press_Start]

Is the industry really ignoring "good games" though?

Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

I mean if it weren't, then Operation Rainfall wouldn't need to exist would it?

Heck, even Bandai Namco is getting into the swing of it with Dark Souls.

Yeah, after Atlus did all the heavy-lifting work for them on Demon's Souls, thank you very much. Next time maybe Namco should ask Mayor Quinby to be their new mascot.

It just wasn't a great game IMHO. Many of the commenters on the Kickstarter site and on other message boards seem to agree.

Yet they still donated. Evidently, some have given upwards to $1000. So it proves my point that it's more than about the game and getting swag. It's more of an avenue of outcry for these gamers cause they think no one is listening to them. The fact Operation Rainfall resorted to metaphorically kicking down the door screaming to lay a huge sack of money at Nintendo's feet just to localize a trio of RPGs, practically ready for American markets on a sliver platter, is a colossal joke.

[TonyTheTiger]

Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

It's not really fair to answer that question with 25 years worth of history. Lord knows that far more quirky Japanese games end up here today than ever before. He's absolutely right that the playing field as it is today is far more conducive to good games finding their way here in some form or another than it was in the past. It ends up meaning that if Victor Ireland wants to continue in the Working Designs tradition, he's probably going to have a much harder time landing another Lunar, Popful Mail, or even Rayearth. For a small publisher, these diamonds in the rough are harder to come by these days.

[Bojay1997]

You've listed a ton of games that have either already been released in the US (albeit not on their original platform) or are planned for US release or haven't been released anywhere and therefore nobody knows if they would be great or not. Seriously, Megaman Legends 3? Day of Disaster and Trace Memory R? Talk about games that could have been great but turned out mediocre despite all the hype. I have both from the UK and I can honestly say we missed nothing by not getting them over here.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but Operation Rainfall didn't cause Xenoblade and Last Story to get a US release. Gamestop and Xseed and Nintendo knowing that there was profit to be made are the only ones responsible for that decision and ultimately it was a business decision because they are great games which will sell. When those two games sell significant numbers, I'm sure Pandora's Tower will be close behind.

You're right, Atlus did all the heavy lifting, but it doesn't change the fact that Namco recognized a good game coupled with a good business model and made it an even larger success.

You can make the Kickstarter campaign about whatever you want, but I would encourage you to study what his business plan is stated to be and the terms and conditions Kickstarter requires when using its services. The money can only be used for this game, not general development of other titles. As such, it will have zero impact on getting other games released from your list and its not going to encourage Nintendo or Capcom or any of the other IP holders of many of the games below to suddenly open the flood gates of niche titles. The point is, this campaign wasn't well planned, it's not even backing something people desire and frankly, I'll go out on a limb here and predict it won't meet its goal, thus doing more damage than good when other companies realize that there isn't some huge groundswell out there for niche mediocre games.

Xenoblade Chronicles, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Trace Memory R, Day of Disaster, Night of the Sacrifice, Reginliev, Fatal Frame 4, Fatal Frame 2 Remake, Sky Rodea, Earth Seeker, Megaman Legends 3, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, Valkyrie Chronicles 3, Nightmare Busters, Policenauts, Mr. Gimmick, Trip World, U-four-ia, Kid Dracula (NES), Baby Upa, Penguin Dream Adventures, Twinbee, Parodius, Gradius II, Moon Crystal, Adventure Island II, Chronicle of Radia War, Super Mario Bros 2: Lost Levels, Final Fantasy 2, Final Fantasy 3, Mother, etc. So, the answer is your question: hell yeah!

I mean if it weren't, then Operation Rainfall wouldn't need to exist would it?


Yeah, after Atlus did all the heavy-lifting work for them on Demon's Souls, thank you very much. Next time maybe Namco should ask Mayor Quinby to be their new mascot.




Yet they still donated. Evidently, some have given upwards to $1000. So it proves my point that it's more than about the game and getting swag. It's more of an avenue of outcry for these gamers cause they think no one is listening to them. The fact Operation Rainfall resorted to metaphorically kicking down the door screaming to lay a huge sack of money at Nintendo's feet just to localize a trio of RPGs, practically ready for American markets on a sliver platter, is a colossal joke.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'll go out on a limb here and predict it won't meet its goal, thus doing more damage than good when other companies realize that there isn't some huge groundswell out there for niche mediocre games.

I think most have already figured that out. The sea of generic anime titles is probably not moving large numbers. Atlus saw this back on the PS2 with games like Metal Saga and Steambot Chronicles. That seems to be part of why Disgaea was such a surprise. The runaway success stories are rare and when they do happen the publisher can easily lose out on the sequels (which also happened). I don't think anybody anywhere doesn't already know that these games have limited appeal. NISA tried a preorder stunt with Holy Invasion of Privacy, Badman in an effort to gauge interest in a physical release. It failed, apparently miserably so. Victor Ireland is doing essentially the same thing except using Kickstarter instead. Maybe there's reason to argue that Kickstarter is worse for something like this. That could be true. But if it fails it won't be telling people anything they don't already know.

[kupomogli]

I always find it fascinating when people make this claim that there is this vast supply of great games out there that never get localized. When you then ask them for some examples, it's always some obscure JRPG or other niche Japanese title that probably didn't even sell well in Japan and which is another rehash of the same old formula. Are there some great games that never get localized? Certainly. Are there tons? Nope.

There may not be tons, but there are more than a few. If you look back at Namco Bandai before the merger, Bandai released a hell of a lot of Gundam titles in the west. Some weren't really good, but most were. Aside from Gundam Crossfire which sucks total ass, the only Gundam games that have made way outside of Japan are Koei titles. Dynasty Warriors Gundam, bullshit.

But you want a list, I'll list games that I've played. Gundam Battle/Royale, Chronicles, and Universe. All great games, there's also Tactics and the other one with Seed characters, but I haven't played those. Gundam vs Gundam, Gundam Extreme Vs, The newer Gihren's Greed games(Advance Wars with Gundam,) etc. There's a lot of good Gundam games, and while you may or may not be a fan, that doesn't change the fact that these games are very good. But hey, maybe you don't want to see a list of Gundam games, so here are non Gundam games I've played.

Black Panther Yakuza Demo(amazing,) Jump Ultimate Stars, Fist of the North Star Arc System Works(PS2,) and Tales of Phantasia X. That's really about all I've played though, because I'm not too big on importing or playing games unless I understand the text. If the games not text heavy, which is why there are so many Gundam games, then I really don't care and will play them no problem. You might ask why I list Tales of Phantasia X though? The PSP version is a much improved version over even the PSX version. It's like comparing how Street Fighter 2 plays to Street Fighter Alpha 3 with infinite V-Ism. It's that much of an improvement.

Games that I want to play and I probably won't ever unless they're translated? Retro Game Challenge 2, Half Minute Hero 2, Tales of Destiny 2(PS2 or PSP,) Tales of Destiny Director's Cut(PS2,) Black Panther Yakuza(full game obviously,) Black Panther Yakuza 2, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Phantasy Star Portable Infinite, The Little Battlers, Sora no Kiseki SC, Sora no Kiseki TC, Zero no Kiseki, Zwei!!, Brandish Dark Revenant, the new Suikoden PSP game, Final Fantasy Type 0, and Shining Blade.

These are only games that I know of or are the only ones I can really think of off the top of my head. While it doesn't mean that there's a long list of games that might be better than these games I've listed, it also doesn't mean there's not a list of amazing games I may have not have heard about, etc. Still, missing out on 30 games that are good/more than likely good unless importing is a big number.

[Press_Start]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but Operation Rainfall didn't cause Xenoblade and Last Story to get a US release. Gamestop and Xseed and Nintendo knowing that there was profit to be made are the only ones responsible for that decision and ultimately it was a business decision because they are great games which will sell.

According the Nintendo of France....

He told the station that Nintendo of Europe wanted to show Xenoblade Chronicles at E3 2011, but Nintendo of America wouldn't let them because they didn't want to show products they aren't planning to sell.

If you take that comment at face value, that means the Nintendo of America is not planning to bring Xenoblade Chronicles to North America. It's not a full death knell for Xenoblade Chronicles in the region, but it's certainly not looking good.

So yeah. Nintendo of America didn't want to localize Xenoblade Chronicles given
a) They showcased Xenoblade (aka Monado) at E3 2009 but not for following years at E3 2010 and 2011
b) NoE was handling the translation first, not NoA
c) NoA themselves saying they didn't think it was going to "sell".

Thus, if Nintendo of America weren't officially releasing Xenoblade, no way in hell we were getting Last Story or Pandora Tower. Hence, thanks to Operation Rainfall's efforts, not solely Nintendo's, in approx. one week, North American gamers will have their hands on a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles, a game one year ago Nintendo didn't believe was worth it. With the Last Story coming in June and Pandora' Tower now a possibility.

So, your assumption Operation Rainfall didn't do anything was a big, fat false. Second, your logic that Nintendo wanted Xenoblade and Last Story cause they were "great games" was proven wrong. Third, it shows one example why the modern video game industry is so messed up that a whole market is ignored thanks to some bean-counter in a corporate suit in his high office in his ivory tower somewhere is so tone-deaf and ignorant of gamer culture that they thought Fortune Street was a viable venture than Xenoblade. (For the record, Fortune Street sales = 120k, Xenoblade pre-orders = 170K. Suck it, corporate idiot.)

You're right, Atlus did all the heavy lifting, but it doesn't change the fact that Namco recognized a good game coupled with a good business model and made it an even larger success.

Then why didn't Namco outbid Atlus for Demon's Souls too? Cause Namco never thought it was a good venture until after it sold over a million overseas and now look like the dam bloodsucking parasites that they are for snatching Dark Souls from Atlus' rightful hands, after the fact. Once again, you're dam wrong. It ain't about the games....."it's the money, Lebowski."

[Bojay1997]

Again, you haven't provided any support for your argument. I'm not saying Nintendo of America made the decision alone, both games also depended on financial support from Gamestop and Xseed and the fact that they had already been fully converted for the Western market which Nintendo then agreed made the ventures viable. Operation Rainfall also did nothing to encourage the release of the three games in Europe and frankly, failed in getting Nintendo of America to timely release Xenoblade resulting in many people essentially having to double buy the game as they already imported it. Having said all that, I have no issue with people banding together and expressing their support for things to companies. I just don't agree that in this particular case it made much difference either way and in fact it may have slowed the process as Nintendo of America felt it would lose face by caving into pressure and couldn't immediately announce it was moving forward with the releases. I also have no problem with people supporting this Kickstarter as long as they are honest about what it is. It's simply a way of releasing one specific game in a physical edition but the company expects everyone to make it totally risk free and likely very profitable for them to do so.

You're right, it is about the money. That's how companies operate. This Kickstarter is 100% about the money as well. You are fully subsidizing a game that most people could care less about and will have a digital release regardless and essentially investing in a special edition with a huge proposed print run (at least in PSP terms) at a premium (other than DJ Max Portable 3, I am unaware of any US release PSP collector's edition in the $60 price range or higher). So, yes, Namco released Dark Souls because it looked likely to make them money and because it was a good game. If it was garbage, they wouldn't have bothered since they were only the publisher and not the developer.

According the Nintendo of France....



So yeah. Nintendo of America didn't want to localize Xenoblade Chronicles given
a) They showcased Xenoblade (aka Monado) at E3 2009 but not for following years at E3 2010 and 2011
b) NoE was handling the translation first, not NoA
c) NoA themselves saying they didn't think it was going to "sell".

Thus, if Nintendo of America weren't officially releasing Xenoblade, no way in hell we were getting Last Story or Pandora Tower. Hence, thanks to Operation Rainfall's efforts, not solely Nintendo's, in approx. one week, North American gamers will have their hands on a copy of Xenoblade Chronicles, a game one year ago Nintendo didn't believe was worth it. With the Last Story coming in June and Pandora' Tower now a possibility.

So, your assumption Operation Rainfall didn't do anything was a big, fat false. Second, your logic that Nintendo wanted Xenoblade and Last Story cause they were "great games" was proven wrong. Third, it shows one example why the modern video game industry is so messed up that a whole market is ignored thanks to some bean-counter in a corporate suit in his high office in his ivory tower somewhere is so tone-deaf and ignorant of gamer culture that they thought Fortune Street was a viable venture than Xenoblade. (For the record, Fortune Street sales = 120k, Xenoblade pre-orders = 170K. Suck it, corporate idiot.)



Then why didn't Namco outbid Atlus for Demon's Souls too? Cause Namco never thought it was a good venture until after it sold over a million overseas and now look like the dam bloodsucking parasites that they are for snatching Dark Souls from Atlus' rightful hands, after the fact. Once again, you're dam wrong. It ain't about the games....."it's the money, Lebowski."

[kupomogli]

So, yes, Namco released Dark Souls because it looked likely to make them money and because it was a good game. If it was garbage, they wouldn't have bothered since they were only the publisher and not the developer.

Namco Bandai announced Project Dark at TGS2010. There's no way they would have known it was garbage since it wasn't even a game. From what I've heard though, Project Dark is because they wanted to have a western style game and they had an agreement with FromSoftware to do so, and Armored Core 5 being published in the US was also part of this agreement.

Namco Bandai picked up Dark Souls because Atlus did tremendously well in the US with the earlier game Demon's Souls. I don't see how you can argue that either game is a Western oriented game. They are niche to an extreme and yet because they are great games, they both sold quite well.

I didn't reply to this previously, but what do you mean you don't get how Demon's Souls is a western oriented game? FromSoftware easily could be mistaken for a western developer if going by gameplay from any of the King's Field, Evergrace, Armored Core, Chromehounds, or Souls games. The style of gameplay for all these games and even presentation makes it look like a western style game with some subtle Japanese influences.

[Bojay1997]

Namco Bandai announced Project Dark at TGS2010. There's no way they would have known it was garbage since it wasn't even a game. From what I've heard though, Project Dark is because they wanted to have a western style game and they had an agreement with FromSoftware to do so, and Armored Core 5 being published in the US was also part of this agreement.



I didn't reply to this previously, but what do you mean you don't get how Demon's Souls is a western oriented game? FromSoftware easily could be mistaken for a western developer if going by gameplay from any of the King's Field, Evergrace, Armored Core, Chromehounds, or Souls games. The style of gameplay for all these games and even presentation makes it look like a western style game with some subtle Japanese influences.

How are any of those games "Western"? Just because they don't have cute characters doesn't make them Western. Those games sold far better in Japan then they ever did in the West, so they are at least as "Japanese" in appeal as they are "Western" whatever that means. I will agree that they are niche titles however, regardless of where they are released and given that all of them were released in the US, it's yet more evidence that good games get released over here if they can be profitable and not as the result of Internet campaigns or Kickstarter efforts.

[Edmond Dantes]

How are any of those games "Western"?

RPGs that encourage nonlinear exploration and experimenting with customer characterization as opposed to the standard linear quest with story-dictated characters. At least for KF and the Souls games, dunno about the others.

[kupomogli]

Edmond Dantes said it a bit better than I would have.

FromSoftware games are like western titles as they are somewhat open world and encourage you to explore rather than giving you a specific direction you must follow and/or offer much broader options for customization by not following any specific template.

What FromSoftware does though, is incorporates Japanese nuances into a game that's clearly a western design.

King's Field series, Eternal Ring, Shadow Tower, Dark Souls, Evergrace series, and to a lesser extent, Demon's Souls. You're dropped off at one point in the game, might hear a bit of storyline, and then you're free to proceed and make progress however you want. These games are open world, but unlike the Elder Scrolls titles, they don't have long stretches of nothing. You actually make progress in a timely fashion. Your characters are also customizable in their actions and how they will be played as. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls mostly, but all of the games have a little depth in how your character will be built. Not as customizable as in the Elder Scrolls games, but again, progress to character types are made much more quickly.

Armored Core. It's always had an extremely deep level of customization where everything is taken into account. Even compared to the Mechwarrior series it has a much deeper level of customization. I've always seen the series as a much faster paced Mechwarrior. Chromehounds is Mechwarrior with the customization of Armored Core.

But look up and find where Namco Bandai stated that they wanted to expand into the western market, then after four failed games they said they're not going to use any western developers anymore as they were inefficient in comparison to Japanese developers. Then right after that they have an agreement with FromSoftware to develop Dark Souls. I'm certain their end goal was to break into the western market.

[Nz17]

Own a PSP? Like Class of Heroes? Want Vic Ireland's most deluxe Deluxe Edition... perhaps the most fancy-schmancy Premium Edition ever? Just want to support JRPGs in the West? Then look no further than the Super Mega Deluxe-su Edition of Class of Heroes 2!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...the-psp-system

The good boys and girls over at Gaijinwork's new Kickstarter project are trying to amass $50K monies to make a megalu deluxe version of the game. How supreme will it be? Well...

Meeting the Kickstarter funding will allow:

* A Physical Deluxe Pack to be made
* English Voice Acting in the Digital and Physical releases
* English Opening Song and Video in both releases
* Extended game fixes and features (extra save slots, better controls, etc) for both releases
* Translation and release of Class of Heroes II webcomic series during development

Exceeding the funding limit by 15% will allow:

* Additional language localizations
* Clear license to retain Japanese audio option

What's in the Deluxe Pack?

* Deluxe blind-embossed box
* Soft faux-leather embossed manual/art book
* Arranged soundtrack CD
* Character Standees
* Game UMD

Three additional items will be voted on by backers from this list:
* Watch
* Pendant
* Cloth map
* Dagger letter opener
* Coin bank
* Inflatible sword
* Pen/pencil set

So check on out http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...the-psp-system if you wanna make it happen. The time to contribute will end in 13 days from the date of this posting... so getcha pledgin'!

[Gameguy]

Meeting the Kickstarter funding will allow:

* A Physical Deluxe Pack to be made
* English Voice Acting in the Digital and Physical releases
* English Opening Song and Video in both releases
* Extended game fixes and features (extra save slots, better controls, etc) for both releases
* Translation and release of Class of Heroes II webcomic series during development

Exceeding the funding limit by 15% will allow:

* Additional language localizations
* Clear license to retain Japanese audio option

Does that mean that if the kickstarter funding doesn't meet it's goals the regular edition of the game won't contain any audio track at all?

[Press_Start]

First of all, the Kickstarter is asking 500K, no 50K.

Second, there's already a thread on the topic.

[Nz17]

First of all, the Kickstarter is asking 500K, no 50K.

Second, there's already a thread on the topic.

Well the 0 I hired for the role said it could do the work of two zeroes. I believed him, but he obviously didn't pull his weight and we're just going to have to hire a second 0.

As far as there being another thread, well I just found out about this and my search for an existing topic only spanned the previous week of threads... the moral of the story is to make sure your search terms aren't too exclusive. But it makes me feel better to know that the two threads are now merged into one.

Does that mean that if the kickstarter funding doesn't meet it's goals the regular edition of the game won't contain any audio track at all?

The way I figure it is that if they don't mean their funding goal for this Kickstarter campaign that either means A) no Japanese nor English voices or B) no Japanese songs/singing. I don't imagine that Class of Heroes 2 has any singing in it though (Admittedly, I haven't played it so I wouldn't know.), thus I think he means no talkity-talk but there will still of course be English dialog to read either way.

Doesn't look like it was too bad of an idea for me to make a post about the topic anyway as nobody had mentioned the actual Kickstarter link until then. So while I'm at it... the short URL for the project is [ http://kck.st/HbYV1w ].

That begs the question though: has anyone from here actually financially backed this project?

[Gameguy]

The way I figure it is that if they don't mean their funding goal for this Kickstarter campaign that either means A) no Japanese nor English voices or B) no Japanese songs/singing. I don't imagine that Class of Heroes 2 has any singing in it though (Admittedly, I haven't played it so I wouldn't know.), thus I think he means no talkity-talk but there will still of course be English dialog to read either way.

I forgot about dialog boxes like in old games, I thought he was just going to make a mime based RPG or something similar to Machinarium in terms of communication.