So I bought a retrogen adapter...

[Ace]

Yeah it's very similar... But on my t.v. A message pops up sayin unusable signal as if it wasant plugged in. The retron3 v2 seemed to deal with the sonic 3 intro fine. It's on episode 10 of that video you posted. If you watch the sonic 3 intro you'll notice for a brief second the screen turns white. That's when it happens. So culex4096 is probably right about the all white glitch.

If you get that message on an all-white screen, it's possible the video amp used isn't exactly adequate for all-white screens. I've had sync issues on the FC3 Plus whenever I'd run the video through a splitter where any and all white screens would jitter vertically. It's possible other all-white screens like that do the same. We'll see what my TV and capture device do when I get my RetroGen adapter.

Somebody please try golden axe!!! Lol!!!

I've got a known working copy of Golden Axe, so I'll give it a shot for you.

[hellraiser]

I've got a known working copy of Golden Axe, so I'll give it a shot for you.

Thank you! I been really pondering buying another copy from flea bay.

I swear I remember some one saying that some of these goac systems have a problem with golden axe 1 or 2.

As for the white screens it makes me worry a bit about games with snow/ice levels. I don't know how much it takes to make it go wonky.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Alrighty, I got mine yesterday and have tested it out on on my SNES, RetroDuo and all three of the portables. I don't have a huge library of Genesis games, but everything I've tried so far works. I can't get over how clear the composite video quality is on this - it is vastly superior to any model of the real Genesis hardware.

Unlike quarky sound emulation issues present in some clones like the RetorN3, this little device does a remarkably solid job at preserving the Genesis sound. It sounds just like it would if I were using my CDX. The SNES controller button mapping makes complete sense and I haven't ran into any games that don't run so far. I need to do a bit of further testing but all things are looking good. I'll be posting a video review as soon as I get a chance.

[hellraiser]

I need to do a bit of further testing but all things are looking good. I'll be posting a video review as soon as I get a chance.

Can't wait!


I've been wanting to mention the audio. Thing is I have no original hardware to compare it to. I haven't owned a genesis since the mid 90's.

[hellraiser]

Pretty cool video...

This guy got a power base converter working on his! For me this opens a whole new can of worms!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imbjo...e_gdata_player

[Ace]

My RetroGen came in today. Result?

This thing is weird! It only works on two of Super NES compatible systems:

-Super NES Mini
-Super Famicom Jr.

It doesn't work on any of my other systems:

-Super NES
-Super Famicom
-FC Twin
-FC3 Plus(completely pointless, but I tested it anyways)
-RetroDuo v2.0

I don't know what's going on, but damn, this is weird.

Still I was able to do some preliminary tests and I have this to say so far:

-Some people have experienced video issues with this thing on white screens where the video signal gets wavy. No such issue here, BUT I do get scrolling horizontal lines all over the screen. It seems a lot of audio noise leeches into the video signal because when you unplug the audio outputs, the lines disappear. However, it seems the RetroGen doesn't pass the audio signal into the Super NES as I get no sound through the Super NES' multi-A/V out.
-The video is dark, much darker than a Genesis and like everything with a GOAC, there's too much green in the video signal. Satoshi_Matrix, I don't know where you get the idea that the Composite is good, but let me tell you: it looks worse than original hardware on my TV.
-Volume balance between FM Synthesis and PSG is *almost* perfect. PSG is a little louder than it should be, but still at an acceptable volume
-The FM Synthesis gets distorted at times and PCM samples get scratchy
-There's a nasty squealing noise in the audio signal
-THE STEREO SOUND IS REVERSED!!! WTF??? It's the same like the RetroN3! The red plug outputs the left audio channel and the white plug outputs the right audio channel. Jeez, are the manufacturers that stupid?

Oh, and Golden Axe works on my RetroGen. Hellraiser, I think your cartridge is defective. I can also confirm Virtua Racing does NOT work on the RetroGen(I knew it wouldn't).

EDIT: The lines aren't caused by the RetroGen. It's a grounding issue with my recording equipment causing the horizonal lines.

[hellraiser]

That is weird Ace! Mine is happily sitting I'm my retroduo v 2.0!

I wonder if the scrolling issues can be fixed with a higher quality cable?

Now that I got a confirmed I will jump on another golden axe cart! Thank you!

[markusman64ds]

I doubt it would work, but has anyone tried a 32X or Power Base Converter?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I doubt it would work, but has anyone tried a 32X or Power Base Converter?

Power Base Converter you say?

Pretty cool video...

This guy got a power base converter working on his! For me this opens a whole new can of worms!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imbjo...e_gdata_player

[markusman64ds]

I wonder which Master System games are compatible? 32X might not work due to the whole video cable thing.

[MarioMania]

I hope there's a mod to get Virtua Racing working....

[Ace]

That is weird Ace! Mine is happily sitting I'm my retroduo v 2.0!

It's almost like the adapter doesn't receive enough voltage on those consoles because when I apply power, I hear a pop noise in my speakers like when I power on something, but there's no video and no sound. There isn't even a line on the TV when I apply power to the RetroGen on those systems. I have no idea what the hell is going on.

I wonder if the scrolling issues can be fixed with a higher quality cable?

The scrolling lines were caused by a grounding issue with my computer. I have a splitter on the audio outputs from my switchbox going into my laptop's microphone input so I can A) listen to games with headphones and B) record audio samples. I've removed the splitter from my laptop and all is fine.

I must say, though, whoever makes the A/V cables is incompetent. The Stereo sound on the RetroGen itself is NOT reversed, but the A/V cables are wired with the audio outputs reversed. Plug in headphones into the RetroGen and you'll see what I mean. If you're familiar with the Stereo sound of a certain game, you'll notice the Stereo sound is correct with headphones plugged into the adapter, but reversed with the included A/V cables.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I wonder which Master System games are compatible? 32X might not work due to the whole video cable thing.

32X does some major sharing with the Genesis' video feed, so I'm thinking that a setup like that would need some healthy a/v modification.

[Ace]

32X does some major sharing with the Genesis' video feed, so I'm thinking that a setup like that would need some healthy a/v modification.

That's only half of the explanation. Like the Genesis 3, several Geniclones, including the RetroN3, early versions of the FC3 Plus and the RetroGen Adapter, completely omit certain signals between the cartridge slot and the GOAC(even the Genesis 3 is a GOAC, but one with external RAM and no built-in RGB to Composite video encoder). Video mixing is one thing, but if certain signals are missing from the cartridge slot, the 32X won't even boot. As a general rule of thumb: if Virtua Racing doesn't work, the 32X won't work either.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

That's only half of the explanation. Like the Genesis 3, several Geniclones, including the RetroN3, early versions of the FC3 Plus and the RetroGen Adapter, completely omit certain signals between the cartridge slot and the GOAC(even the Genesis 3 is a GOAC, but one with external RAM and no built-in RGB to Composite video encoder). Video mixing is one thing, but if certain signals are missing from the cartridge slot, the 32X won't even boot. As a general rule of thumb: if Virtua Racing doesn't work, the 32X won't work either.

Indeed!

Thanks for the more complex and accurate explanation.

[hellraiser]

Power Base Converter you say?

At the 4 min mark of the video I posted... I was pretty shocked myself!

It's almost like the adapter doesn't receive enough voltage on those consoles because when I apply power, I hear a pop noise in my speakers like when I power on something, but there's no video and no sound. There isn't even a line on the TV when I apply power to the RetroGen on those systems. I have no idea what the hell is going on.

That's what was going on with my copy of golden axe. Then when the game was tried on a regular system it worked. Maybe try a few different games while using the nonworking systems...


A few hours ago I picked up strider, eswat and kid chameleon. Strider worked fine the other two were just a blank screen. This has really got me puzzled! Thats a little much for bad luck. All three games that haven't worked have been from the same place too. That working strider I got from a guy on craigslist.

[Ace]

That's what was going on with my copy of golden axe. Then when the game was tried on a regular system it worked. Maybe try a few different games while using the nonworking systems...

Here's the thing, though: the RetroGen refuses to power up on those consoles EVEN WHEN NO CARTRIDGE IS INSERTED INTO THE ADAPTER! And I verified this with my capture device as when that thing detects a signal and there's no game inserted into a console(unless it's an NES), the screen is black. However, with the RetroGen, the screen is blue, indicating absolutely nothing is going on.

One thing I did notice when taking my multimeter to the RetroGen is that some of the systems where I can't get the RetroGen to work output up to almost half a volt less than what it should. The thing is: the RetroGen works perfectly fine on my Super NES Mini and Super Famicom Jr. where the voltage at the Genesis cartridge slot is around 4.95V, but on other consoles such as my FC Twin and RetroDuo v2.0, the RetroGen refuses to work with 4.99V(FC Twin) and 4.96V(RetroDuo v2.0). My launch-model Super NES and early-revision Super Famicom(they have identical motherboards with the sound hardware on a separate plug-in board) output a very low voltage in comparison. The launch-model Super NES outputs a little above 4.5V at the cartridge slot and I believe the Super Famicom outputs about 4.7V or so(my FC3 Plus also outputs voltage within that range). The RetroGen runs most stable on my mid-revision Super NES(this is when Nintendo shortened the motherboard and placed the sound hardware directly onto the motherboard) where the voltage at the Genesis cartridge slot is 5.06V.

I'm going to retest all my Super NES consoles to determine the exact voltage and also try to cover up some pins on the card-edge to see what could be the source of the problems the RetroGen has on certain systems. I believe it may have to do with the fact the RetroGen appears to have two separate VCC sources. Two pins on the Super NES cartridge slot are VCC sources(5V), but on the RetroGen, those two sources are not linked together(the Grounds are linked together, though). My multimeter shows a connection between the two Ground points, but not between the two VCC points. I do have a 30-day warranty on this RetroGen, but I will hold onto it so long as it works on some consoles. Even if it doesn't work on some Super NES systems I have, as long as it works on some, that's okay with me. I do want to get to the bottom of this issue, though, as it's really bothering me.

[Bazoo]

Pretty cool video...

This guy got a power base converter working on his! For me this opens a whole new can of worms!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imbjo...e_gdata_player

That was PBC for Model 1, correct? Crazy, does this mean the Master System components are built into the adapter?

[Ace]

That was PBC for Model 1, correct? Crazy, does this mean the Master System components are built into the adapter?

Questions like this make me facepalm. OF COURSE IT HAS ALL THE COMPONENTS FROM THE MASTER SYSTEM! All of the Master System's hardware is critical to the Genesis; if ANYTHING is missing, Genesis games will either stop working outright or not work correctly. Master System converters only redirect signals from the Master System cartridge into the Genesis' cartridge slot and set pin B30 on the cartridge slot low(Ground), which switches the Genesis into Master System mode. If any Genesis(Genesis 3) or Geniclone does not work with Master System games, there's no connection between pin B30 and the hardware inside the system. All the Master System's hardware is there, but since there's no way to switch the video mode(and disable the main CPU in the process - keep in mind, the Genesis has 2 CPUs: the main CPU which is a Motorola 68000 and the secondary CPU which is a Zilog Z80. When Master System mode is engaged, the 68000 is disabled and the Z80 takes over), you simply get a black screen.

[hellraiser]

Questions like this make me facepalm. OF COURSE IT HAS ALL THE COMPONENTS FROM THE MASTER SYSTEM! All of the Master System's hardware is critical to the Genesis; if ANYTHING is missing, Genesis games will either stop working outright or not work correctly. Master System converters only redirect signals from the Master System cartridge into the Genesis' cartridge slot and set pin B30 on the cartridge slot low(Ground), which switches the Genesis into Master System mode. If any Genesis(Genesis 3) or Geniclone does not work with Master System games, there's no connection between pin B30 and the hardware inside the system. All the Master System's hardware is there, but since there's no way to switch the video mode(and disable the main CPU in the process - keep in mind, the Genesis has 2 CPUs: the main CPU which is a Motorola 68000 and the secondary CPU which is a Zilog Z80. When Master System mode is engaged, the 68000 is disabled and the Z80 takes over), you simply get a black screen.

Wow! To be honest I wasant sure how that worked either!

Any hoot must be having some of the worst game luck ever! I returned the kid chameleon for another copy and it works fine... They didn't have another copy of eswat for me to try but no biggie. Got to really credit the stores customer relations! I'm gonna update our little list of working games including golden axe!(thanks again ace!!!)

I hope to hit a local flea market this weekend and i got a copy of comix zone and sonic and knuckles on the way from a member in the d.p. Market place so I can really get some testing in!

P.s. The retrogen actually glitches pretty good every time you warp in kid chameleon. It doesn't effect game play in the least.... Well so far atleast.

[Bazoo]

Questions like this make me facepalm. OF COURSE IT HAS ALL THE COMPONENTS FROM THE MASTER SYSTEM! All of the Master System's hardware is critical to the Genesis; if ANYTHING is missing, Genesis games will either stop working outright or not work correctly. Master System converters only redirect signals from the Master System cartridge into the Genesis' cartridge slot and set pin B30 on the cartridge slot low(Ground), which switches the Genesis into Master System mode. If any Genesis(Genesis 3) or Geniclone does not work with Master System games, there's no connection between pin B30 and the hardware inside the system. All the Master System's hardware is there, but since there's no way to switch the video mode(and disable the main CPU in the process - keep in mind, the Genesis has 2 CPUs: the main CPU which is a Motorola 68000 and the secondary CPU which is a Zilog Z80. When Master System mode is engaged, the 68000 is disabled and the Z80 takes over), you simply get a black screen.

Except you're talking about how the actual Genesis works, when many of our clones up until this point did not even contain a Z80, whether that be because they emulated genesis and not hardware (Firecore) or apt to push several pieces of the Genesis onto a single chip (i.e. a GOAC). They might have the capabilities of the Z80, but it's not exactly a Z80. So, when a GOAC was instituted, it generally rendered the master system unplayable since obviously it won't interact in the same way with the Converter. Sheesh, I'm not a clone expert, but way to not only misunderstand the question, but also proceed to be a complete A-Hole about it as well.

[Ace]

Except you're talking about how the actual Genesis works, when many of our clones up until this point did not even contain a Z80, whether that be because they emulated genesis and not hardware (Firecore) or apt to push several pieces of the Genesis onto a single chip (i.e. a GOAC). They might have the capabilities of the Z80, but it's not exactly a Z80. So, when a GOAC was instituted, it generally rendered the master system unplayable since obviously it won't interact in the same way with the Converter.

Where did you get this information??? The Z80 is CRITICAL to the Genesis. If the Z80 is missing or incomplete, Genesis games won't even run properly, never mind Master System games.

Sheesh, I'm not a clone expert, but way to not only misunderstand the question, but also proceed to be a complete A-Hole about it as well.

Let me be perfectly clear: I've seen NUMEROUS people bringing up misinformation about Genesis 3/Geniclone compatibility issues, and I am CONSTANTLY repeating myself to correct this misinformation, getting more and more irritated as I go along. How do you expect me not to be a complete ***hole about it, huh? If I keep repeating the same thing over and over again, wouldn't you expect me to get pissed off?

It's the same deal with clone consoles. It gets me so f***ing irritated when people call them emulators(in the sense of software emulators). For the love of God, these clones are pure reverse-engineered hardware!! It's the same thing as taking the original hardware, replicating the chips and producing system-on-a-chip designs like NES and Genesis clones or producing discrete cloned parts like Super NES clones.

[Bazoo]

Okay, upon some further research (http://segaretro.org/Sega_Mega_Drive#Mega_Drive_2), I found that you're completely right. My confusion (as I'm sure this is where the misconception arises) is probably that I've read "Only the Model 1 Genesis has a Zilog Z80," meaning that Zilog encompassed all of the Z80's (it's the Z's!), which would leave the other models and clones to deal with the Z80's capabilities in some other way. For example, when I open my Yobo FC3, it doesn't have anything strictly labeled "Z80." But that doesn't mean squat, is what you're saying, right? That the Z80 is still a piece of the system, just integrated. I'm pretty sure I read that misconception on -this- forum as well.

However, I still maintain that your approach was completely ridiculous. I can get upset about certain misconceptions about life and politics (i.e. the new one, that Obama has refused to drill domestically, or the one that floats around saying "There five weekends in this month, that only happens once every 2934e389 years), and maybe pressed enough times I would go off the fly about them. Even then, nothing productive would come out of that, so I wouldn't even be -right- to do that. But seriously, this is such a specific niche where there the very limited information about them that basically comes from wikis and forums forums. In other words, with life and politics, there's enough information out there--and usually arguments are more about logic than they are about misinformation. More importantly, though, those misconceptions affect peoples' opinions and votes--and thus affect me. With this, though, there's literally no way to extrapolate the functionality other than taking people's words at face value, or maybe applying some information from clone components to new ideas. Besides that, does it really matter that I didn't understand how the Genesis processed games? Really? Did it affect you negatively in any way?

And I mean, do you think you yourself have 0 misconceptions about anything, including clones? Just relax about this stuff, calmly clear it up if you want, and remember that no one is perfect. Yes, I expect you not to get pissed off. Because it really isn't a big deal whatsoever.

[Ace]

Okay, upon some further research (http://segaretro.org/Sega_Mega_Drive#Mega_Drive_2), I found that you're completely right. My confusion (as I'm sure this is where the misconception arises) is probably that I've read "Only the Model 1 Genesis has a Zilog Z80," meaning that Zilog encompassed all of the Z80's (it's the Z's!), which would leave the other models and clones to deal with the Z80's capabilities in some other way. For example, when I open my Yobo FC3, it doesn't have anything strictly labeled "Z80." But that doesn't mean squat, is what you're saying, right? That the Z80 is still a piece of the system, just integrated. I'm pretty sure I read that misconception on -this- forum as well.

Just because something doesn't say "Z80" on it doesn't mean the Z80 is missing. Many Genesis Model 2s don't have a Zilog Z80, but there's still a Z80 regardless. It could either be made by Zilog themselves, Sega or Toshiba(I've rarely seen Zilog Z80s in the Genesis Model 2 - only one of those I've personally come across has an actual Zilog Z80. All the others have either a Sega Z80 or Toshiba Z80). Later GOAC-based Genesis Model 2s and the Genesis 3 as well as all GOAC-based clones integrate the Z80 within the GOAC, so there's no way you can see it. It's similar to what Sega did with the YM2612. At first, Sega used the discrete chip, but when Sega made the VA7 motherboard revision for the Genesis Model 1, Sega took the YM2612's CMOS variant, the YM3438, tacked on a modified DAC and integrated it within a custom ASIC(this seems to have been done intentionally as the ASIC is CMOS, not NMOS like the YM2612). GOACs use a 1:1 replica of Sega's modified YM3438 as well, and this YM3438 sounds different from the YM2612, in particular with the volume level at which some notes are output.

By the way, what GOAC is in your FC3 Plus(the TCT-xxxx chip on the Genesis board)? I noticed my FC3 Plus has a completely different GOAC than the one I've seen in earlier revisions of the system, so I'd be curious to know A) when Yobo switched GOAC and B) if the FC3 Plus at one point used a GOAC I haven't seen before.

However, I still maintain that your approach was completely ridiculous. I can get upset about certain misconceptions about life and politics (i.e. the new one, that Obama has refused to drill domestically, or the one that floats around saying "There five weekends in this month, that only happens once every 2934e389 years), and maybe pressed enough times I would go off the fly about them. Even then, nothing productive would come out of that, so I wouldn't even be -right- to do that. But seriously, this is such a specific niche where there the very limited information about them that basically comes from wikis and forums forums. In other words, with life and politics, there's enough information out there--and usually arguments are more about logic than they are about misinformation. More importantly, though, those misconceptions affect peoples' opinions and votes--and thus affect me. With this, though, there's literally no way to extrapolate the functionality other than taking people's words at face value, or maybe applying some information from clone components to new ideas. Besides that, does it really matter that I didn't understand how the Genesis processed games? Really? Did it affect you negatively in any way?

And I mean, do you think you yourself have 0 misconceptions about anything, including clones? Just relax about this stuff, calmly clear it up if you want, and remember that no one is perfect. Yes, I expect you not to get pissed off. Because it really isn't a big deal whatsoever.

What gets me worked up is when I have to consistently repeat myself to correct things I know are wrong. If something's proven wrong and I have to keep correcting people, I eventually lose my patience and respond the way I responded to you. It doesn't matter whether it's something of very little importance or something really important, if I have to repeat myself time and time again, I lose my cool.

Back on topic: I will have to exchange my RetroGen because this thing looks like it's about to die. When I tried to use it yesterday, it didn't work on ANYTHING until I hit the adapter. Sounds like the solder is bad inside the RetroGen, but since reflowing solder on surface-mounted chips always results in more problems for me(seriously, I will never reflow the solder on a surface-mounted chip like the TCT-6801 or other GOACs ever again), I might as well send it back and get another one.

[hellraiser]

Back on topic: I will have to exchange my RetroGen because this thing looks like it's about to die. When I tried to use it yesterday, it didn't work on ANYTHING until I hit the adapter. Sounds like the solder is bad inside the RetroGen, but since reflowing solder on surface-mounted chips always results in more problems for me(seriously, I will never reflow the solder on a surface-mounted chip like the TCT-6801 or other GOACs ever again), I might as well send it back and get another one.

Hopefully the return goes smoothly and quickly. I also hope that your second one is flawless, well at least as much as it can be.

I know you guys know quite abit more about clone systems then me. Are there any games that normally give these systems trouble? I'm going to pick up a handful of games today and do a mini stress test.

Here's another video I found incase anyone is interested. Now I'm really
want a willy wars!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PcW7NsnPVY&feature=youtube_gdata_player