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Thread: Volition's Jameson Durall says banning pre-owned games is "fantastic" [Escapist]

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    Default Volition's Jameson Durall says banning pre-owned games is "fantastic" [Escapist]

    Sorry if this was posted already as it's a bit old... but I could not search for THQ or find it with a quick search.

    Original Article Here

    Johnathan Grey Carter | 7 February 2012 0:55 am

    Volition design director Jameson Durall reckons the idea of next-generation consoles banning pre-owned games is "fantastic."

    Durall entered the used-game debate-turned-melee with both fists swinging. He seems particularly enthusiastic about the rumours surrounding the successor to the Xbox 360 and its supposed "anti-used game" technology.

    "There's another big rumor about the next Xbox console that could really start to shake things up...it won't play used games at all!" he wrote in a piece called 'I Feel Used'. "Personally I think this would be a fantastic change for our business and even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first...they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

    Durall describes current programs designed to mitigate used-game sales, such as project ten dollar and the online pass system, as "just a band-aid on a large wound," before going on to describe his hypothetical, all-new-games utopia in exacting detail.

    " The system is already there for Microsoft, all they'd have to do is use the DLC and codes model they have to tie a game to your Xbox live account," he writes. "Each retail disc would likely need that unique key somewhere in the code so the account would be able to link it properly. Ideally it would tie a full version to the console it is registered on so family members can play even if the main account isn't signed in, but this is exactly how their model works now anyway."

    Durall admits that such a system would have its faults. Game rental companies, for example, would be rendered moot, but that could be solved by Microsoft implementing its own rental service. Gamers who want to lend games to their friends could conceivably be accommodated by a system similar to Amazon's book lending policy, which transfers the license for a set period of time. These are just minor details, however, Durall maintains that the industry needs to act quickly because dire things are afoot.

    "In the end, I fully believe that we have to do something about these issues or our industry is going to fall apart," he continues. "People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."

    Source: #AltDevBlogADay


    Shitstorm ensues on escapist forums

    I wanted to properly attribute the article to the writer so I added his name from the article and the links; hope that is acceptable.

    I wasn't planning on going into the next console generation already as I'm quite tired of the path the industry is heading down...but this is rediculous. What are your thoughts?

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    Microsoft would be digging their own grave if they did this. It would show that they have lost almost all their concern for their customers in exchange for profit. Not only that but it would give competitors an extreme advantage when it comes to marketing their next gen consoles. 'Hey kids! Would you rather buy all your games new for one time use with online verification or do you just want a disc with the data that you can share freely?' I think they are too smart to try something like this

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    I bought Red Faction used due to good reviews for $10 years ago. The risks were small so I didn't mind taking it. Ended up playing through it a few years later, liked it, and went out and bought the sequel new for $20 as a Greatest Hits rerelease and bought the newer games as they were released (Both of which I've yet to spend any significant time with).

    If I'm unable to do that in the future, the Volition's of the world can rest assured I won't be taking a risk on their software. I'll buy as I play (Maybe 3-4 big games a year on a console) and won't be buying games with intentions of playing them years down the road since I very well won't be able to due to DRM since I won't really be owning them (So there's $120 Volition wouldn't have from me if the 360 had been that way). So I'd be sticking with safe bets I'm sure I'll enjoy, such as Zelda games from Nintendo and would concentrate even more on classic gaming. And I sure as heck wouldn't be willing to pay anything near $50, $60, or more for pieces of software I don't really own.

    Smaller developers like Volition was a decade ago can rest assured that they won't ever get my dollars in their idea of a Utopian future for game developers and publishers that represents vastly increased risks for the consumer with each purchase. I was exposed to their Red Faction series since the risk were low thanks to used games and I could enjoy the game on my own terms when and if I decided to ever do so. And wouldn't you know it, the game was good when I played it and encouraged me to buy future installments new.

    If they put half the concern they have about the used game market into their game development where it belongs, I think they'd see significant increases in revenue as consumers like myself positively respond with their wallets. Discouraging consumers sure isn't the way to an improved balance sheet at the end of a year.
    Last edited by Leo_A; 02-20-2012 at 05:49 PM.

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    let M$ do the anti used game thing. they will be out for the count and they will claim ignorance because of it. probably something along the lines of "i dont know why our system failed"

    used games have alwasye been a huge part of this i dont see why all of a sudden this huge push to get rid of used games or "banning" it some how.
    how are you going to ban used game sales? we all own the games, we can trade them in for really poor results at the shops or sell them personally for a much better deal for both parties for all, its kind of our right to be able to do that.

    either way if this does happen, a huge source of revenue and a large chunk of the economy will just dissappear and nintendo will have to come along and save gaming in the states...... again

    it'd be like ET time a billion because all the little jock gamers wont know what to do and give up because they cant get rid of the CODs for more newer shorter CODs

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    MS isn't doing this. I can't believe we're still talking about it.




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    I liked the part where he said "only $60."
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    I believe I can live quite contentedly as a gamer without Volition's games, especially if part of the profits go to support this tool.
    "You are startled by a grim snarl. Before you, you see 1 Red dragon. Will your stalwart band choose to (F)ight or (R)un?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by calthaer View Post
    I believe I can live quite contentedly as a gamer without Volition's games, especially if part of the profits go to support this tool.
    To be fair, this guy just watched a huge chunk of his parent company disappear. While used game sales aren't the main reason THQ is doing poorly...it's part of the reason. His comments are a little more understandable when you take them in context.




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    I don't see the benefit to the consumer by completely killing the used game market, explain what that is and I'll hear out this guys new gamer utiopia. I am totally willing to buy a sealed brand new copy that gives every dime to the developer..at 20 dollars for most games. Most games don't warrant a 60 dollar purchase price and I've been burned far too many times to take a chance on every game that peaks my interest. I'm not really sure why publishers haven't either figured that out yet or still deny this but for me at least, its largely why I go to the used market for relatively recent releases.

    I read no benefit to us in his I FEEL USED piece linked in the escapist article, am I just totally missing something here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by heybtbm View Post
    To be fair, this guy just watched a huge chunk of his parent company disappear. While used game sales aren't the main reason THQ is doing poorly...it's part of the reason. His comments are a little more understandable when you take them in context.
    I don't care why he's making the comments, I'm a consumer - not an employee. I care about what might happen if his comments succeed in producing a marketplace like the one he describes, and what it will do to me / us. I don't want to see his business model succeed, nor do I wish to see it advocated, and I'm voting with my dollars.
    "You are startled by a grim snarl. Before you, you see 1 Red dragon. Will your stalwart band choose to (F)ight or (R)un?"

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    It could worse: they could be talking about a console that only supports digital downloads.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    It could worse: they could be talking about a console that only supports digital downloads.


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    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.125731,-118.158522
    Oh don't worry, PC gaming already has you covered. Most titles that even get a boxed release now require you to sign up to a service or something to actually play your game. I like the crazy steam deals and convenience but it still bothers me on the rare occasion that I buy a boxed PC game that it requires me to login to play the game I just installed on my HD.

    But really I replied to ask why your post includes your exact coordinates?

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    As a consumer, let me just say that I absolutely love being in an abusive relationship with the companies who's products I buy and Jameson Durall's comments make me hard.
    Mario says "... if you do drugs, you go to hell before you die."

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    I will NOT be buying $60 games, simple as that. If they want to make new games for $30-$35 then I'll bite. DLC and activation codes are the devil!

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    Quote Originally Posted by substantial_snake View Post
    Most games don't warrant a 60 dollar purchase price and I've been burned far too many times to take a chance on every game that peaks my interest. I'm not really sure why publishers haven't either figured that out yet or still deny this but for me at least, its largely why I go to the used market for relatively recent releases. I'm not really sure why publishers haven't either figured that out yet or still deny this but for me at least, its largely why I go to the used market for relatively recent releases.
    I always bring up the example of Wanted. It's a 5-7 hour game(at best) with no multiplayer and no real incentive to play thru a second time unless you are achievement hunting. Why the hell did they charge $60 for that? That was rhetorical but regardless of how many years a game took to make or how many people worked on it that need to be paid, all games are not AAA games and do not deserve a $60 price tag. Wanted and atleast 40% of everything else released this gen shouldn't have been priced that high. And to your other point, developers actually do know this but none of them want to be the first to say "we are only charging $30 for our new release game because it's a single-player-only less than 7 hour experience with no real reason to ever replay it".

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    It could worse: they could be talking about a console that only supports digital downloads.
    I think the PSPGo drove that bus to a complete stop.....atleast for the immediate future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by substantial_snake View Post
    Oh don't worry, PC gaming already has you covered. Most titles that even get a boxed release now require you to sign up to a service or something to actually play your game. I like the crazy steam deals and convenience but it still bothers me on the rare occasion that I buy a boxed PC game that it requires me to login to play the game I just installed on my HD.

    But really I replied to ask why your post includes your exact coordinates?
    I think tapatalk is doing that, I should turn it off.

    And I've totally noticed all the drm in my pc games, for sure. But I wonder... When u activate the cd key, can the disc be reinstalled later or is it essentially junk after that?


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    Quote Originally Posted by substantial_snake View Post
    Oh don't worry, PC gaming already has you covered. Most titles that even get a boxed release now require you to sign up to a service or something to actually play your game.
    I found this out when I tried to trade a box full of somewhat recent PC games into EB Games, I wasn't expecting much trade in value just around a few dollars each(if that) as some are still $20 new. I was told that because a large number of PC games now come with one time use codes they don't accept PC games at all for trade in even if they don't need registration codes to work. Now I won't bother buying current PC games, I'll stick with games from at least 10 years ago or more. It's not like I won't have enough games to play with just sticking to older games.

    The real problem is that companies can't budget their games properly anymore, they cost as much as a big budget feature film but they don't have the same long term appeal as films do so they won't make as much money from them. Just make them like good low budget films, focus on the fun and worry less about the realism or special effects. The good low budget films just focus on having a good time, like Evil Dead or the original Halloween. Just focus on fun stuff and they'll sell fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    The good low budget films just focus on having a good time, like Evil Dead or the original Halloween. Just focus on fun stuff and they'll sell fine.
    Man, I wish the original Halloween did focus on fun stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sleemo
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    Yes, what a wonderful idea, let's mass produce a product that becomes completely worthless, unusable trash once the original purchaser is tired of it. Let's just fill up our landfills even more and make our society even more wasteful. That's really the path to the future. Thrift stores are just evil, what with how they encourage people to reuse and recycle and save money too.

    These developers need to grow the balls to admit the real problem here. It's not "used game sales"; it's GameStop. GameStop has a monopoly, and they have the developers bending over getting reamed. They've completely manipulated the system to make greater profits on used sales than new, which is hurting the developers and consumers alike. If they focused on selling new games as they should, game developers wouldn't care about the used sales at independent stores, thrifts, pawns, between friends, etc. I hate to turn this into another anti-GameStop discussion, but they're seriously at the root of this.

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    I'm all for attacking GameStop, but I don't see the point when they've done nothing wrong to warrant the attack. GameStop isn't the problem here. It's the publishers and developers.

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    I already explained how they ARE the problem here. They make more money off of used sales than sales of new games, which is NOT how it should be, and because of that, they put more effort into moving used goods, even if a game launched just a few days prior. This takes a huge chunk out of the sales of new copies that should be taking place. This is why developers are complaining. They're not losing money because a Goodwill is selling a copy of their game months or years later. It's all because of GameStop. If they made more money selling new games or if they had some kind of restrictions on how/when they could sell used copies (at the very least, not trying to convince customers to go with a used copy over a new one three days after launch just to save 5 bucks), we wouldn't see developers/publishers so concerned about used games.

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    If gamers would just sell their games privately instead of trading them for peanuts at Gamestop, that wouldn't even be an issue.

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    at the very least, not trying to convince customers to go with a used copy over a new one three days after launch just to save 5 bucks
    Any how many games are being traded in within days of release? The biggest sales period are the first two weeks, maybe three. If there are so many used copies coming in and going out, that's not GameStop's fault. There doesn't need to be a restriction. For $5, I'd be more willing to splurge on a new copy anyway. I'm sure many do too.

    And even if they're buying used, there are other avenues of revenue now (DLC, download spin-offs, gamerpics) so the point it moot. If used games are such a concern, then smaller companies would be fighting them too, but they're not.

    GameStop hasn't changed anything. Gamestop has grown alongside the industry.

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