what sound card do you use in your old pc?

[Jorpho]

From what I recall the SB16 emulation on the Live! was all software, so you'll take a hit on older games.

What is that supposed to mean? The computer is probably hugely overpowered for anything that would require an SB16 in DOS! And how can a piece of hardware do emulation that's "all software" ?!

[Ze_ro]

How about something actually useful? Or was ISA's best use used for sound cards?

ISA was used for EVERYTHING back then. Video cards, sound cards, network cards, modems, you name it. Hell, I think there was even a time when PC's would use the ISA bus for memory expansion... but that would have been before my time. A lot of that stuff is just built into the motherboard these days and we take it for granted, but I remember a time when I had to have a card for a floppy drive interface, another for a hard drive, and another just for serial and parallel ports. Back in those days, the fact that the SoundBlaster cards had a game port on them was a big selling point, because then you didn't need to use another ISA slot for a game port card!

One of the ISA slots in my DOS machine is being used for a special card that hooks to a separate box for reading Atari Portfolio memory cards. I also have a pair of ISA cards that hook to PCMCIA brakets that can mount in a 3.5" drive bay (Though I don't currently have them installed, since the cables between them are horrendous).

--Zero

[Push Upstairs]

The computer is probably hugely overpowered for anything that would require an SB16 in DOS!

It is indeed overpowered for any "old" DOS games. I'm sure the 384MB of RAM would seem like a bottomless well to most "old" DOS games.

I think It would be cool to get a SB Live Drive to go with my sound card.

[Soviet Conscript]

ISA was used for EVERYTHING back then. Video cards, sound cards, network cards, modems, you name it. Hell, I think there was even a time when PC's would use the ISA bus for memory expansion... but that would have been before my time. A lot of that stuff is just built into the motherboard these days and we take it for granted, but I remember a time when I had to have a card for a floppy drive interface, another for a hard drive, and another just for serial and parallel ports. Back in those days, the fact that the SoundBlaster cards had a game port on them was a big selling point, because then you didn't need to use another ISA slot for a game port card!

One of the ISA slots in my DOS machine is being used for a special card that hooks to a separate box for reading Atari Portfolio memory cards. I also have a pair of ISA cards that hook to PCMCIA brakets that can mount in a 3.5" drive bay (Though I don't currently have them installed, since the cables between them are horrendous).

--Zero

yhea...i'm learning about this the hard way with my little 486 pc project. those old motherboards have nothing built in, lucky to not have to do RAM via the ISA.

i have found that DOS on a newer PC tends to run happly with things such as built in floppy/hd controllers as well as video cards running through PCI and others, BUT it does seem DOS gets a bit picky for sound and tends to give the least trouble with the ISA sound cards. IMHO

[Push Upstairs]

I don't remember much of the 486 I used way back when, but I don't remember ever having too much trouble having sound in DOS. It was an IBM Aptiva computer and I think it had a SB-16 in it.

The 333 we had didn't seem to have any DOS sound problems, but this was a later computer.

[Soviet Conscript]

That is part of the reason why I picked up a SB Live! for my Win98 computer. If I had to run games in pure DOS, I'd still get SB-16 support.

And my Win98 machine has an open ISA port, but I have no idea what I can use it for. I got sound and video...what else really is there?

you don't happen to remember where you got the drivers for it did you? i've had no luck getting my SB live! 5.1 card to run under win98SE. the drivers for it arn't on the win cd like the awe32/64 are and any drivers i DL from the internet that claim to be for SB live! win9X fail to install or work.

so right now i'm useing an AWE64 in my win98 machine. not a bad card but still....

[Jorpho]

you don't happen to remember where you got the drivers for it did you? i've had no luck getting my SB live! 5.1 card to run under win98SE. the drivers for it arn't on the win cd like the awe32/64 are and any drivers i DL from the internet that claim to be for SB live! win9X fail to install or work.

I had a hard time finding those too. It seems there's just no substitute for an original driver CD.

Have you tried http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9FHXIOWI ? It was posted at http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=23018 . No, wait, that's not for 5.1 - never mind.

I'm pretty sure I saw something appropriate on the VOGONS board once, or at least a link to some Creative forum. Maybe it was http://www.filefront.com/user/creativeiso, posted at http://forums.creative.com/t5/Sound-...-1/td-p/545254 ?

[Push Upstairs]

you don't happen to remember where you got the drivers for it did you?

Oddly enough, Creative still had some.

But mine isn't a 5.1, it was a Live! X-Gamer. If you know the Model # (either CT#### or SB####) then you (generally) have a good chance finding stuff.

[Soviet Conscript]

well, finally have a mt-32 on the way to get some great sound out of those games. so before it gets here can anyone tell me what all i'm going to need to get this thing running with my dos pc? i have a SB16 installed in the pc so will all i have to do is connect the mt-32 to the joystick port with a midi - joystick adaptor cable and i'll be ready to go? will i need to download any drivers or diffrent patchs?

[Jorpho]

This is an external device, right? I suspect you're going to have to plug it into your audio mixer one way or another, or perhaps the Line In port on your sound card.

Not sure about drivers or patches.

[Ze_ro]

I don't think you need drivers for it. The whole idea is supposed to be that the computer just streams MIDI data out through your MIDI port, and the MT-32 makes sound from it. You'll probably need to supply games with port addresses and such though.

--Zero

[gravitone]

there's quite a bit of games out there that use the mt-32 intelligent mode. You need a real MPU-401 interface card for these games to work. They will not work with the mt-32 hooked up to a midi/gameport on a soundblaster or compatible card. They're pretty hard to find these days. Another option is to get a LAPC-1 which is basically an mt-32 in ISA form. But these are rare and go for a premium these days.

Also, the AWE64 sound quality when it comes to opl3 emulation is pretty bad compared to the real deal. It's better to stick with a soundblaster 16, even though it's output is a lot noisier.

For the best midi sound quality for dos games released from the early 90's on, you will need a roland sound canvas. You can get a sound canvas daughterboard, external module, or ISA card (SCC-1). Almost every games was composed with one of these and produce fantastic sound.

Gravis ultrasound game support is extremely limited. You could add one as a secondary or tertiary card if you'd like, but relying on it as a primary or only card is not a wise choice. Since it's 0% hardware compatible with the soundblaster range. The soundblaster emulation TSR gobs up quite a bit of essentail ram (first 640kb range) and is horribly incompatible.

Moving over to windows 95/98 games, you have a few api's you want to look at. Directsound, directsound 3d, EAX, and A3D. The older soundblasters (awe range and lower) only provide directsound support, and with a limited number of voices. Im not even sure it actually supports hardware mixing. Which means the soundquality is reduced, and provides a performance pennalty. The Live range is good for games that support EAX and directsound 3d. Stay away from these if you use a VIA chipset though. My personal favourite, the Diamond Monstersound MX300 is a great PCI card that uses the aureal vortex 2 revision B chip that has support for EAX, A3d 1.0, and A3d 2.0. Unlike EAX which is just some cheesy reverb/delay, A3d 2.0 offers true positional audio over 4 speakers and sound great with the games that support it. Also provides 64 hardware directsound voices, and 16 directsound 3d voices.

After aureal went bankrupt the only half decent soundchip alternative on the market for a while was the trident 3d wave. There's a few cards out there that use it, including the monstersound MX400. They only support a3d 1.0, and EAX if memory serves me right. I never owned one so cant really tell much about the features and its compatability.

Using ISA cards in windows 9x is fine if you're interested in playback of an mp3 file, or just hearing the windows chime, but for games, are horribly lacking in features. Any dos user should use an ISA based soundblaster and avoid PCI based cards like the plague. And no, and onboard AC97 codec chip is definitly not a good option in either situation.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Stay away from these if you use a VIA chipset though.

The line of Muse sound cards released by Hercules actually performed pretty well from what I gather from reading reviews and friends who owned the 5.1 and Fortissimo III. They made a good alternative to SB for people who had run into issues using VIA based boards or who wanted to avoid using their on board audio. I only got to use a Muse Xl first hand though, but that card did do me quite well from around early 2002 to late 2006 until I sold it. It was the only other sound card I was willing to use on Athlon and Duron systems I built back then, other then the Vortex 2 and SB Live. I may pick up another soon for the heck of it, wouldn't mind having one on hand again.

[Soviet Conscript]

*sigh* well the mt-32 showed up and dispite my hope that this would be simple....of course it hasn't been.

can't get the damn thing to work. useing one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-M-AUDIO-FEMA...item519119b461

to connect my sound blaster16 to the mt-32. of course in my haste i ordered the female cable so when it arrived i had to by a short M-M midi cable to bridge and connect. as for the 1/4 mono jacks that the mt-32 uses to output i have 2 mono to stereo 1/4 to 1/8 converters and then i have a stereo 1/4 splitter to let my speakers connect to that.

anyways, as i said i can't get it working dispite what i hook the midi cable up to. i tried both midi in and out. i'm testing with kings quest 4 as i read it requires no patches to utilise the mt-32. i know the game is fine because when i set it up to use the sb16 it plays perfect but if i setup for MT-32 and compatibles when i start the game i get a black screen and a mouse pointer. i get no midi message on the mt-32. acually even when i do a sound test with the sb16 i get no sound like nothing is passing to the mt-32.

anyone have any ideas? btw i'm running it on a 486 under dos 6.11

[Jorpho]

Do you have a Windows computer you can try it with?

[Soviet Conscript]

Do you have a Windows computer you can try it with?

yhea, probibly try it on that pc after work tommarrow. if it works at least i can rule out a faulty mt-32

[Soviet Conscript]

tried it under win xp with the same results as well as doxbox. spent a good hour+ fiddeling with settings but the mt-32 just sits there like a rock. i hope its a cable or settings issue rather then the unit itself.

*update* got it to work under XP...sort of. the mt-32 worked but the sound blaster sfx were not but i'm sure that can be corrected with some more setting fiddeling. good news is the mt-32 definatly works as well as the cableing so that narrows down my issues of whats going on here.

[aaron7]

I've got an AWE64 in my DOS gaming rig. Mostly because I always wanted one when they were new haha

[diskoboy]

My NT4 rig still uses an old Sound Blaster PCI128 I bought in 1998.

[Ze_ro]

I've got an AWE64 in my DOS gaming rig. Mostly because I always wanted one when they were new haha

Do you have any compatibility problems with games? Or does it just work if you pick SB16 mode for games that don't know later models? Does it require drivers?

I have an AWE64 sitting around that I've considered putting in my DOS machine to replace the SB16 currently in there, but I was always worried it wouldn't be worth the trouble getting it to work.

--Zero

[Jorpho]

I've always understood that it's supposed to be SB16 compatible. I've been reading all kinds of weird things about MIDI that I've never really understood, though.

There are actually drop-in replacements for the Miles drivers used by some games, though I've never been clear on why exactly they are necessary.

[Soviet Conscript]

Do you have any compatibility problems with games? Or does it just work if you pick SB16 mode for games that don't know later models? Does it require drivers?

I have an AWE64 sitting around that I've considered putting in my DOS machine to replace the SB16 currently in there, but I was always worried it wouldn't be worth the trouble getting it to work.

--Zero

well, i have a awe32 with full ram in my one DOS pc and to be honest i'm not crazy about it. i think its basicly the same as the awe64 but the 64 is cleaner sounding, at least for later games.

i think the awe64 is a decent sound card for later win95-98 era gameing but i don't know about DOS. i don't think to many games support its features. the midi port gives issues as its even less compatible then the sb16's port if you want to use midi devices through it like an mt-32 (this is fixable with drivers and some screwing around) and for the record i personnaly have run into compatibility issues. Cyclones for instance, i coudn't figure out why i wasn't getting sound then i read the box side. "compatible with all sb16 and sound blaster compatible cards (except awe series)"

i've consided replaceing it with a sb16 for better compatibility but since i already have anouther dosbox with a sb16 and i do use this particular pc with later dos games that do tend to support the awe more i decided to just leave it in there. as for a general all around dos pc though i would just stick with a sb16.

[Soviet Conscript]

well, after 4 months with my mt-32 i finally got it working. replaced my sb16 with a slightly newer version and reinstalled the drivers. sounds awsome.

it does seem to have issues with some games though, mostly sierra games because of an issue with the sb16's midi port not being able to use the correct protocals. i've been told the midi port on ensoniq sound cards its much more compatible. anyone have any experence with ensoniq sound cards? any good? game compatibility?

[Ze_ro]

I bought an MT-32 just recently. Got it set up, and it seemed to be working great... but now after about 10 minutes of playing a game, all sound (including regular sound effects not from the MT-32) starts to crackle, and eventually cuts out. At that point, I tried running the "DIAGNOSE" program that was installed with the SB16 software, and it claims it can't find a soundblaster at IO address 220 (which is where it definitely is installed). If I turn the computer off and on, it works fine (at least for another 10 minutes or so).

My theory is that the card is somehow overheating and eventually "crashes". Anyone had this happen to them? Maybe my Gameport-to-MIDI breakout cable is bad or something? (Joystick and MIDI-Out certainly work).

I still have an AWE64 and GUS that I'd like to try out, but is the whole "MIDI on Gameport" a standardized thing? Like, the same cable should work on the GUS too, or would I need Gravis's official MIDI box? I'm a little hesitant to try, because while SB16's aren't hard to find, I certainly don't want to fry my GUS.

I have empty memory slots on my GUS. I probably only have 256k of RAM on there. Is it worth trying to fill this up? Even though they're not SIMMS, they look like standard RAM chips, so I'm guessing they can be found pretty cheap, but would it actually provide any noticable difference in games?

--Zero

[Soviet Conscript]

I bought an MT-32 just recently. Got it set up, and it seemed to be working great... but now after about 10 minutes of playing a game, all sound (including regular sound effects not from the MT-32) starts to crackle, and eventually cuts out. At that point, I tried running the "DIAGNOSE" program that was installed with the SB16 software, and it claims it can't find a soundblaster at IO address 220 (which is where it definitely is installed). If I turn the computer off and on, it works fine (at least for another 10 minutes or so).

My theory is that the card is somehow overheating and eventually "crashes". Anyone had this happen to them? Maybe my Gameport-to-MIDI breakout cable is bad or something? (Joystick and MIDI-Out certainly work).

I still have an AWE64 and GUS that I'd like to try out, but is the whole "MIDI on Gameport" a standardized thing? Like, the same cable should work on the GUS too, or would I need Gravis's official MIDI box? I'm a little hesitant to try, because while SB16's aren't hard to find, I certainly don't want to fry my GUS.

I have empty memory slots on my GUS. I probably only have 256k of RAM on there. Is it worth trying to fill this up? Even though they're not SIMMS, they look like standard RAM chips, so I'm guessing they can be found pretty cheap, but would it actually provide any noticable difference in games?

--Zero

from what i hear the awe32 and possibly the awe64 use a diffrent kind of midi port protocal (sp?) it is possible to get a mt-32 working with them but i hear its a headache and you have to play with special drivers.

yes, apperently there are varitations on the diffrent midi ports on sound cards. for the mt-32 some games use a "dumb" mode and some a "smart". cards like the sb16 only support the "dumb" mode and thats why as i recently found out games like kings quest IV will not work with a mt-32/sb16 combo. though there is a patch i found that lets most sierra games work fine.

i don't know about the GUS but i have read the ensoniq isa sound cards midi port supports both smart and dumb mode but i havn't been able to find dos drivers anywhere for my ensoniq card so i havn't been able to test this.

i have no idea why your mt-32 is cutting off like that but i can swear i've hear about this issue before when i was researching the mt-32. try this site http://www.queststudios.com/roland/roland.html

sometimes it takes a day or two to get a reply but i've found it very helpful