I can't find a good database with it anywhere. I know games that have an "E" in the peripheral header use it, but there isn't one that's organized by peripherals or anything.
Saturn games that use the 3D analog controller?
I can't find a good database with it anywhere. I know games that have an "E" in the peripheral header use it, but there isn't one that's organized by peripherals or anything.
Selling gaming accessories. Click
For some reason they don't link to it on their "special searches" page, but Satakore has this list in French. It doesn't seem to be complete, but it's a start.
Here's some that are compatiable:
Burning Rangers
NiGHTS into Dreams
Sonic R
Sonic 3D Blast
Sega Rally Championship (the game itself reads the controller as the steering wheel, but oddly enough the options screen shows a picture of an Analog controller)
Sega Touring Car
Daytona CCE
Sonic Jam
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
I have a partial list, I was going through the whole database back in January '09 writing down all the multitap games, analog games (A, S, and E codes; A is the Mission Stick, S the Arcade Racer, and E the Analog Controller. They are all at least partially inter-compatible.), etc, but abandoned it at Hexen because of how long and tedious the project was, so it only covers A-G. Still, here it is.
... Oh, I do actually have what I think is a complete list of the multitap games, but I've posted that here somewhere before I think... I think I've posted this before too at some point, but whatever. I really should get back to finishing this, it'd be very interesting to see I think, because yeah, as you say there is no complete listing of this stuff, which is part of my point, as you will see in the list.
In addition, some games with analog support DO NOT list it in the peripheral codes, while in other cases the peripheral codes may be wrong, so just going by those codes will not give you a complete list. I have categories for titles with analog that do not list it; note the importance of some of those titles, Panzer Dragoon for instance! Why couldn't they have been more accurate with their peripheral code listings, darnit?
Anyway, what I have is listed below.
Beyond the simple list though, you also really do need to individually test each game. The Mission Stick, Arcade Racer, and 3D Controller each have their own lists of games, but while most games that support analog via any of the three will work with all of them (or for Mission Stick and 3D Controller at least, for non-racing games), this is not true for all titles -- some games do work in analog mode with only certain controllers. This cannot be determined by looking at these codes, but only by actually trying the game with the controller in question. I can do some of that, because I have a Mission Stick and 3D Controller, but only have a relative few games...
Oh, as an additional aside, unlike the 3D Controller, the Mission Stick actually can emulate the d-pad, so you can actually use it in most any Saturn game if you want, except with the stick working as a digital (on/off) controller instead of an analog proportional one. This doesn't work well in some titles, but is kind of cool in others. The only incompatibility I've run into that I can think of offhand is that for some reason you can't press any buttons in the menus in Virtua Cop with the Mission Stick, you have to use a normal controller there... but it works fine in the game itself. Kind of odd. But anyway...
First, the peripheral codes. From here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/satu...e/916393/26021
J: Joystick Controller (normal, digital gamepad)
A: Mission Stick (analog joystick)
S: Arcade Racer (analog racing wheel)
E: 3D Controller (analog gamepad)
G: Stunner (light gun)
P: VCD Card (addon that allows you to play VCDs)
M: Mouse
K: Keyboard
F: Floppy Disk Drive
C: System Link Cable support (JP releases mostly use this code)
D: System Link Cable support (US releases mostly use this code)
X: X-Band or Netlink Internet Play
W: 1MB or 4MB RAM Cart support
R: Requires ROM Cart to play (cart comes with the game -- only two games do this)
Q: Pachinko Controller support
There is no code for internal backup memory save support. I'm pretty sure that there is also no code for Backup RAM Cart support either (to save directly to that instead of having to copy files to and from the card, that is). There is no code for an arcade stick either, like the Virtua Stick, or for the Virtual-On Twin Stick or the Densha de Go! train controller.
The List
--
This is why you need to actually test games to ascertain if they have 3D Pad or Mission Stick (or Arcade Racer) support.
MechWarrior 2: Arcade Combat Edition for Saturn
The game is a mech game, so it's obviously going to be better by far with a joystick. The saturn has one, called the Mission Stick. It also has an analog controller, the 3D Pad, which also would be better than the basic d-pad only gamepad. So, let's look at the box and manual and see whether the game has any support for either of these controllers...
Packaging
--
Box: No Mission Stick or 3D Pad icons
Peripheral Code: JAE (US and EU versions), J (Japanese version)
Manual and Quick-Help Card: Only Standard Controller (Model 1) Mentioned and Shown
Nothing on the box, manual, or in the game, and mixed results in the peripheral codes? That's not promising... Bah, that'd be awful, d-pad only for MechWarrior... even this Arcade Combat Edition isn't nearly as fun without a joystick!
... But wait, how about trying it anyway and seeing if it works, on my US copy of the game. Let's see if something happens, that GameFAQs "Mission Stick" FAQ suggests that some games have support for it without mentioning it, like Ghen War. This one at least has the code in some some versions of the game... hope that's more accurate than the case, manual and ingame control listings all are!
Controls as listed on Quick-Help Card and in Options Screen (and in game, with standard controllers)
--
STANDARD CONTROLLER (Configurations 1, 2, & 4)
--
D-Pad: turn left/right and look up/down
A: Fire
B: Speed Down/Reverse
C: Nothing (4: Target Select)
X: Weapon Select
Y: Speed Up/Accelerate
Z: Jump Jets
L: Nothing
R: Nothing
Start: Pause
STANDARD CONTROLLER (Configurationms 3 & 5)
--
D-Pad: turn left/right and speed up/down
A: Fire
B: Look Up
C: Nothing (5: Target Select)
X: Weapon Select
Y: Look Down
Z: Jump Jet
L: Nothing
R: Nothing
Start: Pause
STANDARD CONTROLLER (Configurations 6, 7, & 8)
--
D-Pad: turn left/right and look up/down (8: Left/Right and speed up/down)
A: Fire
B: Speed Down (8: Look Up)
C: Target Select
X: Weapon Select
Y: Speed Up (8: Look Down)
Z: Zoom (tap once to zoom in, twice quickly to zoom out)
L: Left Torso Twist
R: Right Torso Twist
Start: Pause
Of these, 6 is by far the best setup. But anyway... let's check that 3D Controller and Mission Stick.
... Yes, BOTH are fully supported! Awesome...
Note -- For either controller, these controls are not listed anywhere. You simply have to press the buttons and figure out what they do.
MISSION STICK
--
Joystick: turn left/right and look down/up (best movement controls of any setup)
Throttle Wheel (Z axis): Speed Up/Down (just rotate the wheel! best speed controls of any setup)
A (Trigger or base button): Fire
B (top left button or base button): Weapon Select
C (top right button or base button): Target Select
X (base button): Zoom (tap once to zoom in, twice quickly to zoom out)
Y (base button): Center Torso
Z (base button): Jump Jet
L (base button): Left Torso Twist
R (base button): Right Torso Twist
Start: Pause
3D PAD
--
Analog Stick: turn left/right and look up/down
D-Pad: left/right torso twist and zoom in/out (best zoom controls of any setup)
A: Fire
B: Weapon Select
C: Target Select
X: Center Torso
Y: Nothing
Z: Jump Jet
L (analog trigger): Speed Down
R (analog trigger): Speed Up
Start: Pause
Either one of these is vastly superior to the standard controller. Each has pluses and minuses, so choose which you like more. The joystick is best for the most accurate controls, but the 3d pad does have better zoom controls... but either way, it's good.
So here's the question. If you're going to go to all the trouble to put full analog support in the game, for both analog controllers the game could support (Obviously this wouldn't work well with the Arcade Racer...), WHY NOT MENTION IT ON THE BOX AT LEAST? Really, it's pretty absurd, and annoying for the fans... particularly any who didn't buy it, assuming that the game had inferior d-pad only controls. It doesn't.
These first two groupings show how limited knowledge of which games actually support the Mission Stick really is.
Mission Stick Games
--
Listing A (from a webpage listing of US Saturn titles that supposedly noted Misison Stick compatible games with a note)
--
Black Fire
Congo The Movie The Lost City of Zinj
Sega Ages (After Burner II and Space Harrier, not Outrun)
Soviet Strike (has Mission Stick logo on US box)
Wing Arms
Listing B (MobyGames "Input Devices Supported: Mission Stick" list)
--=
Panzer Dragoon 1995 SEGA Enterprises Ltd., SEGA Corporation
Solar Eclipse 1995 Crystal Dynamics, Inc.
Soukyugurentai 1997 Electronic Arts Victor
Wing Arms 1995 SEGA Corporation, SEGA of America, Inc.
See what I mean they have no idea which or how many games actually support it? Here's the real list...
Madroms' Sega Saturn Complete Games and Demos Database can be found here: http://madroms.satakore.com/db/db.php
--
Mission Stick Main Listing (Sega Saturn Complete Games and Demos Database Games with the "A" code)
--
Known Support
--
After Burner II (Sega Ages line)
Arcade's Greatest Hits - The Atari Collection 1 (Midway presents) (US box and manual have no mention of support, but it IS there; with a Mission Stick there are analog controls in Centipede, Breakout, and Missile Command. Tempest, Asteroids, and Battlezone support the stick but are not analog. Note that the analog controls WILL NOT WORK with a 3d controller, this game is analog via the Mission Stick ONLY!)
Black Fire
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD card, and RAM carts)
MechWarrior 2: Arcade Combat Edition (UE versions list the code, J version does not. US box and manual have no mention of support for either analog controller, but it is present.)
Outrun (Sega Ages line)
Sega Ages (all three titles)
Soviet Strike (Mission Stick logo is on box)
Star Fighter (StarFighter 3000) (US version lists no A or E support, EU version lists A but not E, JP version lists A and E; however game actually supports J, A, and E in all versions. JE versions list it having multitap (passthrough or something? This is a 1p game) support as well, US does not.)
Space Harrier (Sega Ages line)
Wing Arms
Listed, Unsure (the code is listed, but I can't be absolutely certain that it is actually supported)
--
3D Baseball (3D Baseball: The Majors)
Advanced World War Sennen Teikoku no Koubou ~Last of the Millennium~
Astra Superstars
Batman Forever: The Arcade Game (E version only has the listing; UJ versions do not have it)
Black Dawn
Blast Chamber
Casper (UE versions list it, but not J)
Croc - Legend of the Gobbos
Crypt Killer
Cyberia
Dark Savior (UE versions only have AE codes)
Darklight Conflict
Doom (UE versions have the A listing, but not J version)
Duke Nukem 3D (E version only lists A support, not U; both have E support listed however)
Formula Karts Special Edition
Frankenstein - Through the Eyes of the Monster
G Vector
Gale Racer
Grid Runner
Hardcore 4x4 (E version only has the code, not U version)
Hexen
Panzer Dragoon RPG (Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG)
Powerslave (US version lists the A, European version (Exhumed) does not...)
Shockwave Assault
Sonic 3D Blast (only US and EU versions have the code, not JP)
Games that DO NOT have the "A" Code, but DO in fact have Mission Stick support with analog controls and often a custom button layout:
--
(Would need to check all above titles for actual Mission Stick support -- have not done this)
--
Other Games With Mission Stick Support (that don't have the "A" code)
--
Cyber Speedway (Gran Chaser) (code mentions only JS (that is the only analog controller listed in the code is the Arcade Racer), but the game actually has Mission Stick support as well with a hidden custom control scheme, and the Mission Stick or 3D Controller are fantastic with this game as a result.)
Ghen War (J code only and no mention of it in the US manual, etc, but it has a custom control setup with analog controls if you use a Mission Stick.)
Panzer Dragoon (JUE) (the Mission Stick is THE way to play this game. It's not mentioned in the (US) manual, on the box, or in the codes, but this game has full analog support and really is fantastic with the Mission Stick, once you've played this game with the joystick you won't want to go back... oh, it works with the 3D Controller, but unfortunately unlike with the Mission Stick you can't quite get the cursor into the corners because of the different shapes of the sticks' ranges, so it can be frustrating.)
Panzer Dragoon II: Zwei (JUE) (As with the first game, once you've played it with the Mission Stick you'll never want to play it with a gamepad again. This time there is actually a Mission Stick ad on the back cover of the manual I believe, but still no A code or Mission Stick logo on the US box. This game has a hidden feature -- it supports a Dual Stick Mission Stick. You can make one by buying a second Mission Stick, detaching the stick part from the base, and plugging the stick into the Sub Control port on the bottom of the base and attaching the stick to the other side of the base (usually the left I imagine). You will now have true dual-analog control in the game -- one stick moves, the other aims. This is the only game I know of that actually uses the Mission Stick's hidden twinstick mode...)
Star Fighter (U) (as mentioned above, code is left out of US release, but stick works fine. Mission stick is mentioned in the manual, but not on box or in list codes.)
The following sections are purely listings of which games have the codes in question, not whether the games listed actually support those devices.
Arcade Racer Games (Sega Saturn Complete Games and Demos Database Games with the "S" code)
--
Andretti Racing
Astra Superstars
Choro-Q Park
Code R
Crimewave
Crimewave Demo
Cyber Speedway (Gran Chaser)
Daytona USA
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition Netlink Edition
Daytona USA Circuit Edition
Destruction Derby
Die Hard Trilogy
F-1 Challenge
Formula Karts Special Edition
Gale Racer
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD card, and RAM carts)
GT 24
Hang On GP
Hardcore 4x4 (E version only has the code, not U version) (U version has Arcade Racer logo on back -- actually does have support for it despite not having the code)
Outrun (Sega Ages line)
Power Drift (Sega Ages line)
Sega Ages (Outrun only)
Sega Rally Championship
Sega Rally Championship Plus (JP) / Sega Rally Championship: Netlink Edition (US)
Sega Touring Car Championship
Games Incorrectly Listed as Having "S" codes
--
(Would need to check all above titles for actual support -- have not done this)
Stunner Light Gun Games (from same listing, "G" code)
--
Area 51
Chaos Control (JE) (E, but not J, version lists gun support (E ver. also has logo on box for it)
Chaos Control Remix (J) (a port of the E version of the above, with the gun support the original didn't have?)
Crypt Killer (Henry Explorers) (JU versions only, not E)
Daisuki
Death Crimson
Die Hard Trilogy
Maximum Force
The House of the Dead
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
Games Incorrectly Listed as Having "G" codes
--
(Would need to check all above titles for actual support -- have not done this)
Mouse ("M")
--
3D Lemmings (only J version, not E, has the code listed)
Ai Igo
Arcade's Greatest Hits - The Atari Collection 1 (Midway presents) (US box and manual have no mention of support)
Arthur to Astaroth no Nazomakaimura ~Incredible Toons~
Baldy Land
Body Special 264 ~Girls in Motion Puzzle vol.2~
Break Thru!
Can Can Bunny Extra
Can Can Bunny Himekuri Calendar
Can Can Bunny Premiere
Can Can Bunny Premiere 2
Cat the Ripper ~13 Nin Me no Tantei Shi~
Chaos Control
Chaos Control Remix
Crypt Killer (Henry Explorers)
Cyberia
Daina Airan
Daisenryaku Strong Style
Daisuki
Darkseed
Dezaemon 2
Die Hard Trilogy
Digital Monster Ver. S Digimon Tamers
Digital Pinball: Necronomicon
Discworld (J version; E version not on list)
Doom
Doukoku Soshite...
Doukyuusei ~if~
Doukyuusei 2
Eisei Meijin
Eisei Meijin II
étude Prologue ~Yureugoku Shin no Katachi~
Farland Saga
Farland Story ~Habou no Mai~
Gakkou no Kaidan
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
Game no Tatsujin
Game no Tatsujin 2
Game no Tetsujin The Shanghai
Go III Professional Taikyoku Igo
Godzilla ~Rettoushinkan~
Heir to Zendor (Gotha II ~Tenkuu no Kishi~)
Last Gladiators Digital Pinball
Keyboard ("K")
--
Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG (J version only)
Dragon's Dream
Duke Nukem 3D (U version only, not E)
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
Games Incorrectly Listed as Having "M" codes
--
(Would need to check all above titles for actual support -- have not done this)
3D Controller ("E")
--
Astra Superstars
Advanced World War Sennen Teikoku no Koubou ~Last of the Millennium~
After Burner II (Sega Ages line)
Airs Adventure
Batsugun
Battle Garegga
Burning Rangers
Can Can Bunny Extra
Can Can Bunny Premiere 2
Choro-Q Park
Christmas NiGHTS into dreams...
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG)
Code R
Contra - Legacy of War
Croc: Legend of the Gobbos (UE) / Croc ~Pau-Pau Island~ (J) (later J version only has E code, not earlier UE ones, but all three actually do have E support)
Crypt Killer (U version only, not E, has the code)
Daisenryaku Strong Style
Daisuki
Dark Savior (UE versions only have AE codes)
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition
Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition Netlink Edition
Daytona USA Circuit Edition
Deep Fear
Die Hard Trilogy (only E version has this code, not U version (J missing data))
Digital Dance Mix Vol.1 Namie Amuro
Digital Pinball: Necronomicon
Duke Nukem 3D
Dungeon Master Nexus
Enemy Zero
Fantastep
Fuusui Sensei (aka Feng Shui Sensei)
G Vector
Galaxy Force II (Sega Ages line)
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
Greatest Nine '96
GT 24
MechWarrior II: Arcade Combat Edition (UE versions list the code, J version does not. US box and manual have no mention of support for either analog controller, but it is present.)
NiGHTS into Dreams... (also works with the Mission Stick, but it's not nearly as fun or playable as it is with the 3D Controller)
Outrun (Sega Ages line)
Power Drift (Sega Ages line)
Sega Rally Championship Plus (JP) / Sega Rally Championship: Netlink Edition (US)
Sega Touring Car Championship
Sonic 3D Blast (may not actually analog, but it does support the stick)
Sonic Jam
Sonic R
Space Harrier (Sega Ages line)
Games Incorrectly Listed as Having "E" codes
--
(Would need to check all above titles for actual support -- have not done this)
Floppy Disk Drive ("F") (Japan only addon)
--
Azel: Panzer Dragoon RPG (J version only)
Culdcept
Dezaemon 2
Eiyuu Shigan ~Gal Act Heroism~
Game Basic for Sega Saturn (game programming software -- no built in games, supports all peripherals except online network, VCD Cards, and RAM carts)
VCD Card Support Code Listed ("P")
--
Chisato Moritaka Watarasebashi / Lala Sunshine
Falcom Classics Special CD
Lunar: Silver Star Story MPEG Edition (requires VCD Card -- the only Saturn release that does (note that the normal version of Silver Star Story does not support the VCD Card, but has the usual lower-quality video as a result))
Last edited by A Black Falcon; 12-28-2009 at 03:54 PM.
I can confirm that Out Run, in fact, does support the analog controller. It also uses the R trigger to accelerate and L to brake, indicating that it was specifically designed for it, and not just the racing wheel. Released in September '96 (in Japan), it may be the first such racing game on the Saturn.
I don't have lists to post, but some general rules of thumb:
-- Almost all racing games from the launch of the system support the analog steering wheel, and therefore the analog pad as well
-- Later racing games use the analog triggers as well; "later" meaning 1997 and on, and a couple of games from '96
-- Most flight sims and similar games from the launch of the system support the Mission Stick, and most of these translate to the analog pad, but a few do not
-- Any type of 3D game released in 1997 or later should support the pad
Note that a few games that can be controlled with the analog pad do not actually respond in-game in an analog manner. Sonic 3D Blast is one example.
Thanks, any I can add without having to look them all up is nice... checked and then added the following (that were not on the list already):Originally Posted by Baloo
Sonic Jam - EJ
Sonic 3D Blast - JAE (US), JATE (EU), JE (JP)
Sonic R - JE
Sega Touring Car Championship - DEJS (US/JP), EJS (EU)
Sega Rally Championship - JAS (that's why it shows an image of the Mission Stick, it has support for it.)
Sega Rally Championship Plus or Sega Rally Championship Netlink Edition - JASEDX
NiGHTS / Christmas NiGHTS - EJ (though it does also work with the Mission Stick, it's not very fun with it)
Also note my listing for Panzer Dragoon Zwei and its hidden twin-stick Mission Stick mode, via plugging a second Mission Stick joystick into the Sub Control port on the bottom of the Mission Stick's base unit...
Alright, that's cool... it's actually got 3D Controller support?
I checked the database... and yup, Outrun has the codes JAES. That is, it's got codes listed for all three of the analog controllers. So I'd guess that it uses a different custom configuration for each of the three controllers, with analog speed control support presumably on 3D Controller only, but perhaps better control on the Mission Stick and Arcade Racer. I don't know, I'd have to try it.
On that note, I checked the other Sega Ages titles, those not in the A-Hexen list of mine. Sega Ages (UE) is JAES. S only in Outrun I'm sure. Power Drift is JES. Space Harrier is JAE. On the subject already on my list though, Galaxy Force II (J) is just JE. It was a 1998 release, so perhaps they'd ditched the Mission Stick by then... I have no idea if it'd work anyway with a Mission Stick though, it's possible I guess. Like Space Harrier and After Burner, that seems like one that'd be the most fun by far with the Mission Stick... that kind of stick is what the arcade version would have been designed for, after all.
In comparison to Outrun, the original US release of Daytona USA is Arcade Racer only analog-wise. It'll work with any of the three analog controllers, but it was designed for the Arcade Racer. It plays great with the Mission Stick, but not so well with the 3D Controller... the controls are just too touchy. Cyber Speedway, however, was designed for both the Arcade Racer and Mission Stick, and has custom configurations for both; I don't have an Arcade Racer of course, but the Mission Stick's is probably the best way to play the game.
Also, you raise a good point here, for anyone who doesn't know -- there are easy ways to tell which analog controller a game was designed for even if you don't see any icons or peripheral codes.
Mission Stick (Mission Flight Stick, large flightstick-style joystick) -- Was released at or near system launch. Has all nine regular buttons (A, B, C, X, Y, Z, Start, L, R), an analog joystick that can also emulate the d-pad in titles that do not have native analog support, and one exclusive button, the throttle wheel. Note that this is not a normal throttle slider but is instead a spring-loaded wheel which springs back when you let it go. It's in the middle of the top with the two large top buttons to either side of it, so it is possible to hold it up or down and also press the B or C buttons at the same time. If a game supports the wheel, it's guaranteed that it was designed with Mission Stick support. If it supports the L and R buttons and was released before the 3D Controller came out, it is also certain that it has Mission Stick support.
Arcade Racer (racing wheel) -- Also out near launch. Has the A, B, C, X, Y, Z, and Start buttons, an analog wheel, and analog pedals that are actually Up and Down on the stick. Despite this I believe that these buttons are digital and not analog. Note that this controller does NOT have L or R buttons to the best of my knowledge, so any game designed for it will not use those buttons (this lack can be a way to tell that games were only designed for this analog controller). I don't have one so I don't know if it can emulate a d-pad or anything like that, or how compatible it is with 3D Controller or Mission Stick games.
3D Controller (gamepad with analog stick on it) -- Released in late 1996, with NiGHTS. There is a switch to switch between the full analog mode and digital emulation mode, which disables the analog stick. Has an analog stick, d-pad, and the A, B, C, X, Y, and Z buttons, plus analog L and R triggers that also work as digital buttons for games that do not support them in analog mode. In analog mode all controls work, and as that MechWarrior 2 control configuration shows games can put commands on the d-pad in this mode. If games do that, or support analog acceleration or something on the triggers while also having some other commands on Up and Down (such as in MechWarrior 2), it's a sure thing that the game was designed for the 3D Controller.
Generally true, yes. I'm sure there is some racing game on the Saturn that's not analog, but the vast majority are. Most early ones were designed just for the wheel, but as Cyber Speedway shows some also had Mission Stick support. Later ones presumably mostly had both 3D Controller and Mission Stick support...I don't have lists to post, but some general rules of thumb:
-- Almost all racing games from the launch of the system support the analog steering wheel, and therefore the analog pad as well
Only the 3D Controller has analog buttons, so yeah, only later ones COULD have that. It's too bad, because it means that very few games actually support the analog feature of those buttons... it'd have to wait until the Dreamcast before we got many racing games with analog acceleration/braking support.-- Later racing games use the analog triggers as well; "later" meaning 1997 and on, and a couple of games from '96
True. If you read that list of mine though, it should be clear that you should never trust the box, manual, or ingame menus when it comes to this, because all of those as likely as not will not mention the analog support that the game likely has. You need to launch the game itself and then see if you've got analog control. You likely will, even if the box and manual and game menus don't say a thing about it.-- Most flight sims and similar games from the launch of the system support the Mission Stick, and most of these translate to the analog pad, but a few do not
I'd hope so.-- Any type of 3D game released in 1997 or later should support the pad
Huh, so you can use the stick but it's digital only? That'd still count as an E-code title though, unlike the Mission Stick games have to be specially programmed for them to work with the 3D Controller's joystick...Note that a few games that can be controlled with the analog pad do not actually respond in-game in an analog manner. Sonic 3D Blast is one example
Last edited by A Black Falcon; 12-25-2009 at 10:34 PM.
You can use the analog thingy but the game doesn't respond to different degrees of input. It's still an improvement for that game though, because it's easier to move around in different directions and diagonally.
Ah, yeah, so it works for the much greater degree of precison in terms of directions, but not for the stick. Yeah, I can see that being a big help anyway though, I played that game through on the Genesis and while it was fun, it'd definitely be better with controls more suited to a 3d world.
Thanks for the detailed responses guys. I'm happy to know that 3 out of 5 of my recent purchases use it (NiGHTs, Sega Rally Championship, and Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition). Fighting games are better suited to the Genesis-style controller, aren't they?
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Yeah, a lot of people never got any of the analog controllers for Saturn, so they have no idea that there actually are a pretty significant number of games on the system with analog support. It didn't help at all that many games with support do not label themselves as such -- that "Mission Stick Supported" logo that can appear on the back of US cases is only on a couple of cases at most, while as I've shown the stick itself is actually supported in dozens of games. The situation is slightly better with the 3D Controller, they often seem to at least MENTION the thing somewhere in the manual or box of games that support that, but still I'm sure it wasn't universal...
Remember that most all racing games will work on any of the three analog controllers in analog mode, and most other titles that support either the Mission Stick or 3D Controller will work (to some degree or another) with both of them. It's great that the Saturn has this inter-compatibility, it's so much better than the Playstation where every accessory was incompatible so the system resulted in having three completely different and incompatible analog methods (the neGcon/racing wheels (yes, racing wheels use the neGcon essentially), the Playstation Analog Joystick, and the Dual Shock). So you need several uncommon accessories in order to play all PSX games in analog. But with the Saturn, that's not a problem, and it's great.
Of course the N64 is even simpler, with just one gamepad and virtually every game supporting analog, but I must admit that the N64 doesn't have a real joystick, and nor does any other system past the PSX and Saturn that I know of, with the exceptions of the Dreamcast and Xbox 360 Virtual-On Twinsticks and Steel Battalion.
As for fighting games, I think that they're fine with the 3D Controller, you just use the d-pad on it. The controller's one of the best ever really, I'd only rank the Saturn 3D Controller behind the N64 controller and perhaps nothing else. Why do you think fighting games are better with the standard (smaller model 2) controller? Because of triggers vs. shoulder buttons, and you like shoulder buttons more? I like triggers more, but fighting games usually mainly just use six buttons, and with the controller having six face buttons, that shouldn't be a big issue... I use the 3D Controller for everything that isn't best with the Mission Stick, myself.
Oh yeah, and for anyone who likes the Panzer Dragoon games, I really would highly recommend a Mission Stick. Play the game with one and you'll see why. It's also good for stuff like Daytona USA (this or the Arcade Racer are by far the best ways to play the original Daytona version, as I said with the 3D Controller the analog is just too touchy), Mechwarrior, Starfighter, seeing how well dpad games work with a joystick (kind of amusing), etc.
Plus there's that incredibly cool PD Zwei hidden mode that uses the Mission Stick's undocumented twin joystick feature...
The Analog controller doesn't work at all with the original Daytona. It only works with Daytona CCE.
Also, yeah, the controls are really touchy with the 3D controller while playing the Panzer Dragoon games. It's very hard to control the dragon with the 3D controller IMO.
I remember having problems with Panzer Dragoon Zwei. One of the buttons, Z I think it was, would fire on its own when using the 3D controller, so I had to fiddle with the button config.
That's not true. Did you actually try it for yourself, or are you just saying that? As I said, I've played the original Daytona with the 3d controller. It works in analog mode, but the controls are really touchy because it wasn't designed for it. It's a lot more fun with the Mission Stick, and I imagine it'd be even better with the Arcade Racer.
Oh, when playing the original Daytona USA release with a 3D Controller, you have to use the d-pad in the main menu and the options screen, but the analog stick while selecting your car and track and in the game itself. Ingame the analog stick's X axis will control the car's turning while the d-pad's Y axis controls camera zoom (which, on the Arcade Racer, is on the paddles that are actually the up and down controls). With a Mission Stick those four controls are simply on the stick, so it's wise to avoid pushing up or down because it'll change the camera.
Still, though it does work, the crazy touchiness of the controls with the 3d controller's analog mode definitely not recommended for the game, in my opinion. It'd probably be better to use one of the other analog controllers or digital controls. But it DOES work.
As for the dpad in menus but analog ingame thing, while of course this would later become common in PSX games, I think I've run into that in other Saturn games as well.It's pretty weird and I have no idea why this is, but it's the way it is. When using a 3D Controller with games that should support analog, try the dpad in menus if the analog stick doesn't work.
Quite true. Use the Mission Stick instead. It's what they were actually designed for, and nothing else compares.Also, yeah, the controls are really touchy with the 3D controller while playing the Panzer Dragoon games. It's very hard to control the dragon with the 3D controller IMO.
(PD Saga was designed for the 3D Controller, though)
Yeah, sometimes there are little glitches when playing a Saturn game on a controller it wasn't designed for. I just think it's cool that you can do it at all though.
With the original Panzer Dragoon, the only problem I remember seeing is as I said just that I couldn't aim into the corners of the screen, so some targets were impossible to hit...
Before this discussion heads any further, I'd like to know which games, if any, support the analog function of the shoulder buttons. Does anything significant really support it, or was the controller simply ahead of its time?
The reason I'd say the digital controller is better for fighting games is because it's got just the basics for them. The unused analog stick kind of sits there, and you're stuck with a controller that takes up more finger space than it needs to for the game. That, and the dpad is simply placed better. Using a 3D controller for a fighting game is like using a DS to play GBA games. You have a few buttons and a screen that do nothing, while the buttons aren't optimized for them.
And the mission stick is used on Panzer Dragoon? Yeesh, no wonder the 3D controller seems so bad. At least it controls better than Croc though! Controlling that guy is like controlling a steamroller with an RC remote!
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Racing games that came out after the 3D analog controller was available (starting with the Japanese release of Out Run) tend to support the analog function of the shoulder buttons, just like on Dreamcast.
As I said only games with actual 3D Controller support can use the analog functions of its triggers, so only the games in the E category of the list (and others with that support beyond Hexen in the database not on the list) could possibly do that. That limits things a lot, as you might imagine.
Still, yes, later racing games, those with native 3D Controller support, most likely will have analog support on the triggers. MechWarrior 2: Arcade Combat Edition supports it as well, for controlling the speed of your mech. (On another note, that is also the only game I know of that actually uses the Mission Stick's throttle wheel...) I believe that that's the only game I actually own that uses the triggers as analog buttons, though... I don't have any of the later racing games yet. But I did only get a Saturn this year, so I think I'm doing pretty well.
But I like the shape of the 3D Controller more, and I like the feel better too. Maybe it's because I like the Dreamcast controller a lot and the Saturn 3D controller feels pretty much exactly like it but slightly better due to the better d-pad and better button layout (six face buttons is better than four), but I think it's just a fantastic controller... great d-pad, great button layout, great feel. I don't like the model 2 digital controller as much. I know a lot of people prefer it, though how many of those are simply because they've never used a 3D Controller?The reason I'd say the digital controller is better for fighting games is because it's got just the basics for them. The unused analog stick kind of sits there, and you're stuck with a controller that takes up more finger space than it needs to for the game. That, and the dpad is simply placed better. Using a 3D controller for a fighting game is like using a DS to play GBA games. You have a few buttons and a screen that do nothing, while the buttons aren't optimized for them.
Oh yeah, and apart from the lack of a link cable port, the DS (original model at least, the only one I have) works fine for GBA games. I don't mind if there are unused buttons...
Yup. Joysticks have a much wider range of motion from analog sticks on gamepads, so when you play a game designed for a joystick on a gamepad controls often get pretty touchy. Some games work better than others -- Cyber Speedway controls great with a 3D Controller despite just being designed for the Mission Stick and Arcade Racer -- but it definitely varies from title to title.And the mission stick is used on Panzer Dragoon? Yeesh, no wonder the 3D controller seems so bad.
... I just checked Croc again though, after you mentioned it. Huh, that's weird... I have it just listed as supporting the Misson Stick, but that's not quite right... the US and EU versions list the codes JAT (multitap, despite being single player? About half of the Saturn games with the T code are one or two player games... I've asked the question before, but anyone have any idea why that would be? Is it just games that were tested to work through the multitap or something? That's about the only idea I've heard.), but the Japanese version actually lists JAE... that is, both the Mission Stick (A) and 3D Controller. So the question is, does the Japanese version have better support for the 3D Controller, or is it the same but they just added the code in? The Japanese version did come out five months after the US and European ones.At least it controls better than Croc though! Controlling that guy is like controlling a steamroller with an RC remote!
I only have played Croc on PC and PSX, and own both Croc games for PSX, but they're pretty good games, so I'd love to have the Saturn version... I like 3d platformers, and that's really the only one on the system. It does seem like it'd be kind of odd to play a 3d platformer with the Mission Stick though, so good support for the 3D Controller would be nice... of course before I tried it I thought playing racing games with a joystick would be weird, but it works surprisingly well, so who knows.
Last edited by A Black Falcon; 12-28-2009 at 12:53 AM.
Croc has pretty nice support for the 3D pad. It even has an Analog Configuration menu with a spinning model of the 3D pad, so it was clearly developed to specifically support it. I'd say it controls better with the 3D pad, but since the controls were obviously initially designed for the D-pad, they're not as good as they could be. They're definitely not Mario 64 quality.
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The game's controls aren't Mario 64 quality on any platform, so that's no surprise.
It's good to know that it actually does have 3D Controller support in all versions though, 3d platformers definitely are best with analog sticks.
Oh, I edited the list to reflect Croc's support for the 3D Controller in the US and EU versions.
Last edited by A Black Falcon; 12-28-2009 at 03:56 PM.
The Playstation version of Croc doesn't support analog control, does it? It came out at a time when Dual Analog controllers were available for PSX, but very rarely used.
Both PSX Croc games support the analog gamepads, in fact. It was a pretty early analog title, Croc came out in fall 1997, before the Dual Shock's 1998 release but after the 1997 release of the Dual Analog Gamepad, which is what it was designed for. The Dual Shock of course uses the same analog method as the Dual Analog Gamepad; it just drops that pad's compatibility with the older Playstation Analog Joystick. That doesn't affect Croc though, so anyone with a Dual Shock can indeed get analog in the game.
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