Building a SuperGun.

[Tupin]

I decided that a SuperGun is best for me, but I have a few questions:

1. If I have a JAMMA harness and an ATX power supply, do I snip the connector off the power supply or take the wires from the harness and solder them into the connector? I've seen harnesses that have hook loops at the end for power supplies, how would that work?

2. How would I go about setting up audio?

3. What would be an ideal enclosure for a SuperGun that I'm planning to use Neo-Geo controllers with? I've seen small ones that just snap onto the end of a bare board, but I want to enclose the harness and board completely yet make it easy to swap out boards.

[Ed Oscuro]

Probably the best thing to do right now is make a list of the games you're likely to want to get and see how many buttons they use, how old they are, etc.

Street Smart seems to use a standard JAMMA connector, from counting the number of buttons (3) in MAME and comparing that to the standard JAMMA pinout online. Any games needing more than three buttons or with more than two players will have some extra wiring needs.

Doubtful you can change the orientation - most cabs (especially older ones) are made for either vertical or horizontal games and the monitors are fastened to the cabinet in that direction. I've also heard that some monitors do best kept in the orientation they were marketed for (but most arcade monitors should do fine either way, just so long as you aren't trying to turn them back and forth constantly). Basically, it seems like a good idea to get two cabinets if you want to play vert and horizontal games (one of the reasons why I've stuck to a supergun).

About JAMMA:
Most boards made around the time of Street Smart or somewhat later should be plug-and-play. This only works for boards that have a JAMMA connector, of course.

Many earlier games (to about 1985) should work (and some earlier, say to about 1983, with an adapter, i.e. Nichibutsu or Konami; I can point you towards these if you want one), but some may require certain voltage on one pin (+5V). I'm not sure if this is standard but when putting together my JAMMA supergun +5V had to be added specifically to play some older games. It seems to have been dropped at some point. Then again, asking me whether to put it in may have just been the supergun builder hoping to get out of a bit of extra work.

You might consider looking at the voltages coming out of the cabinet's power supply - the one in that cabinet it likely going on 21 years old now and may not be producing power to the right specs. If you have a voltage meter you can just check how it's doing. If I was buying a cabinet I would just replace it altogether.

[aclbandit]

I'm considering getting a Street Smart cabinet for $125, and I've heard that it's a JAMMA cabinet. Does this mean I can buy another JAMMA PCB offline and plug it into the cabinet and it will play? Oh, and if it's oriented one way, is it easy to switch to another way? Say it's horizontal and I want it to be vertical?

Yeah, I really am a newbie when it comes to this.

JAMMA is an arcade standard, so yes, any JAMMA board will work on it.

However, this statement assumes:
1) Your boards are fully JAMMA-compliant, and
2) Your cabinet's "harness" is also fully JAMMA-compliant.

As an example, Neo Geo MVS cabinets are "almost-JAMMA" since it has stereo audio. Some (all?) Neo Geo motherboards, however, have a switch that allows switching between NeoGeo cabs and mono JAMMA cabs.

Another example is CPS2 from Capcom, in which putting a JAMMA board into it won't break anything (unlike a NeoGeo cabinet), but it won't have audio either (without a little re-wiring) since the audio comes straight from the CPS2 boards.

Therefore, just MAKE SURE that your JAMMA board and your JAMMA cabinet are "really" JAMMA, and not just "sorta" JAMMA. If that's the case, though, Yes, ANYTHING JAMMA will work in a JAMMA cab.


As for monitor rotation... I'm interested in knowing myself. Never tried rotating the one in my NeoGeo.... that could be wicked for stuff like Contra or vertical shooters...

[aclbandit]

You might consider looking at the voltages coming out of the cabinet's power supply - the one in that cabinet it likely going on 21 years old now and may not be producing power to the right specs. If you have a voltage meter you can just check how it's doing. If I was buying a cabinet I would just replace it altogether.

Quite the good idea. Mine was broken while moving my MVS, but I probably would have replaced it eventually anyway.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, ANYTHING JAMMA will work in a JAMMA cab.

This isn't true (especially taking into account this is a three-button cabinet he's asking about) or else I wouldn't have written what I did. Lots of games are called JAMMA but require extra connections (Street Fighter II immediately comes to mind). If it only uses the original, non-extended JAMMA pinout with three buttons, it'll work - but many games have extra controls (ironically, given this is an SNK cabinet, many of them - rotary joystick games - were made by SNK; for further ironic content consider that SNK went from being the major maker of rotary games to using the relatively simple MVS layout).

I think the best course of action is to consider whether you're interested in games that use non-standard controls; if you want to play games with more buttons you'll have to consider whether you want to drill extra holes into this cabinet and do a bit extra wiring (wiring the buttons should be easy; I would expect most of the trouble to be just finding the right wires to plug into JAMMA games that use extended boards).

[Flack]

Typically if a game uses the JAMMA standard but needs additional buttons, it will be listed as JAMMA+ (meaning essentially, "JAMMA plus something else"). Basically what that means is you can use your existing JAMMA wiring but you'll have to add something else (usually a kick harness).

Also just to clarify, there is no such thing as a horizontal or vertical monitor. The same monitors were used in horizontal games, vertical games, and cocktail games. Changing a monitor's orientation is likely to give you some odd color issues and you may need to manually degauss it, but it might not. Some people have issues simply pivoting games from facing one direction to another, and I hear keeping monitors looking good around the equator is a real bitch. Anyway, the only thing keeping you from rotating your monitor is the mounting brackets. Pull the front bezel off and look and you'll be able to tell real quick. Some cabs have enough space that rotating the monitor is no big deal, while others simply don't have the space.

[channelmaniac]

As an example, Neo Geo MVS cabinets are "almost-JAMMA" since it has stereo audio. Some (all?) Neo Geo motherboards, however, have a switch that allows switching between NeoGeo cabs and mono JAMMA cabs.

One slot Neo Geo boards are either mono or they can switch between stereo and mono.

All of the multi-slot boards (MV2, MV2F, MV4, MV4F, MV4FT2, MV6, and one more 4 slot I can't remember) are all wired for stereo. There is no stereo/mono switch on those models.

[aclbandit]

One slot Neo Geo boards are either mono or they can switch between stereo and mono.

All of the multi-slot boards (MV2, MV2F, MV4, MV4F, MV4FT2, MV6, and one more 4 slot I can't remember) are all wired for stereo. There is no stereo/mono switch on those models.

My board is actually a MV-1, so it has that mono/stereo switch. Didn't know if others had it or not. Thanks for the info!

[aclbandit]

This isn't true (especially taking into account this is a three-button cabinet he's asking about) or else I wouldn't have written what I did. Lots of games are called JAMMA but require extra connections (Street Fighter II immediately comes to mind). If it only uses the original, non-extended JAMMA pinout with three buttons, it'll work - but many games have extra controls (ironically, given this is an SNK cabinet, many of them - rotary joystick games - were made by SNK; for further ironic content consider that SNK went from being the major maker of rotary games to using the relatively simple MVS layout).

That's what I was getting at with the "really" JAMMA versus "sorta" JAMMA. As someone pointed out, "sorta JAMMA" is usually called "JAMMA+." Not that my MV-1 board says so >_<; So, when I said "Anything JAMMA will work in JAMMA", that was dependent upon the idea that BOTH PARTS are fully JAMMA-compliant.

[Tupin]

Just got the dimensions, it's:

2.5 feet wide
2.6 feet deep
5.8 feet tall

Is this standard for JAMMA? I read that this game gave people the option of building their own, but what is the average weight of these things?

[Ed Oscuro]

The JAMMA standard essentially just sets up the wiring, so that even different style cabinets will be part interchangeable for arcade operators. If you could ground everything properly, you could turn my momma's china cabinet into a fully JAMMA-compliant cabinet, add LCD monitors, use boombox speakers, add a funky joystick knob, and so on.

What the Japan Amusement Machinery Manufacturers Association cared about in regards to cabinet manufacturers was mainly that their cabinets were compatible and safe. They didn't care about the size (cabinets are similar sizes for other reasons, like player comfort and packaging in shipping crates). The actual computer hardware of PCBs is small enough (most, especially in the 90s, are smaller than a computer motherboard) that you won't need to worry about space.

Judge the dimensions and trim of the cabinet as they fit your needs - are the joysticks good? Will it fit through your door? Is the screen big enough (but not too big) for your liking?

I want to take a moment to address an earlier point of yours - it will be out of your price range, but probably not by as much by you think (i.e. it's no $1000 investment, possibly not $500 either): the Taito Egret's screen can be rotated so you easily play both kinds of games. It may have (I'm working off memory, this was brought up in Shmups Forum's Hardware section a while ago) some strange mappings that go against the JAMMA standard.

Even so - if you have the space, getting dedicated vertical and horizontal cabinets is probably the way to go.

[Tupin]

I barely have room for this one if I were to get it.

[Flack]

Just got the dimensions, it's:

2.5 feet wide
2.6 feet deep
5.8 feet tall

Is this standard for JAMMA? I read that this game gave people the option of building their own, but what is the average weight of these things?

JAMMA is the internal wiring standard, not the physical cabinet itself.

Average weight of a cabinet is between 200-300 pounds, with a monitor in it.

Man, I should write a book for beginning arcade collectors. Oh wait I did.

[Tupin]

I'll have to look into that book.

...Especially since the guy already sold the machine. Ah well, it's not like JAMMA cabinets are hard to find.

[aclbandit]

Average weight of a cabinet is between 200-300 pounds, with a monitor in it.

And after taking a neo geo up the stairs, I'm totally convinced that I'm never moving a machine with the monitor still in it again. That was just not fun. (Admittedly, at the time, I'd never worked on an arcade machine, so removing the monitor was out of the question. If I ever get another cab, though...)

[Tupin]

Yeah, even a candy cab looks heavy. Speaking of which, a store around here has had several of those in a corner of the store for months now. I wonder if they are for sale, and more importantly, if they work.

[OMF2097]

And after taking a neo geo up the stairs, I'm totally convinced that I'm never moving a machine with the monitor still in it again. That was just not fun. (Admittedly, at the time, I'd never worked on an arcade machine, so removing the monitor was out of the question. If I ever get another cab, though...)

Which one did you move (a 6 slot behemoth, 4, 2, or single)? When I moved my old big red out of my apartment a few years back I removed the monitor the lower back wood panel, glass, and coin assemblage. It made moving it easier and putting it all back together was a snap.

[Arcade Antics]

I've moved a lot of machines up and down stairs. IMO, pulling the monitor just to move a game is way more trouble than it's worth, and it doesn't significantly reduce the overall weight of the cab either.

[Tupin]

I think I'm gonna go with a candy cab, it's not as tall and overall smaller.

[Ed Oscuro]

Do you have a particular model picked out?

When I hear "candy cab" I think of the small (Japan only I think) Neo Geo MVS units, probably because I first heard the term in Neo Geo discussions. I wouldn't get one of those unless I wanted an MVS dedicated machine.

[Tupin]

Some of them were JAMMA, and I'm going to a local store that has a bunch of them to find whether they are or not.

[Ed Oscuro]

You might get lucky and find a JAMMA cabinet that has a MVS board in it, which would let you swap in regular JAMMA PCBs or use the MVS board. Somebody else will have to chime in on this, but I think that any non-Neo Geo branded cabinet with an MVS board is likely to be straight-up JAMMA. As far as I know regular Neo Geo cabinets have wiring close to JAMMA; they just need a -5V line.

[Tupin]

Well, there is a place around an hour and a half away that has an MVS cabinet, but I'm pretty sure the candy cabinets near me aren't Neo-Geo.

So the MVS cabinets are JAMMA compatible, you just don't attach the -5v line when playing a JAMMA game?

[Ed Oscuro]

Look up "Adding a -5V line" on this page. I'm just linking you to the directory and not the specific page because it does throw up a warning :P Edit: and aclbandit notes it's the stereo, d'oh

So, you can see it's not too bad for darn good JAMMA compatibility.

'course I think it would be easier going the other way - putting a MVS motherboard in a JAMMA cabinet.

[Tupin]

Yeah, and I found an adapter for MVS to JAMMA anyway, if I need it.