Is there anyone like me that can't get into... the C64?

[AB Positive]

I mean, for being one of the most well known in the classic computer genre... I just CAN'T seem to get my head around it. Like, at all. Like, I can't get WinVICE to boot a damn thing bad.


I've had 'em, played with the hardware, couldn't get much working there. Yes, I know how to do "Load "*",8,1". Hell, had a FastLoad cart with one once, which yes reduced loading, but still only got maybe 3 or 4 games working. Apart from Maniac Mansion - none were too exciting.


I thought maybe I'm missing something as I struggle with hardware. So I get WinVICE and some TOSEC images. No dice, I can't get any image to run past the cracktro. Grab some no-intro images - same thing. I'm not picking obscure games either:

Turrican
Alternate Reality: The City
Turrican II
Last Ninja series
Armalyte
Mayhem in Monsterland...



I dunno. I've had no problem with real amigas or emulated ones. Same with the A8. I'm not a total noob to this stuff but the C64 stymies me at every turn. I have no vendetta against it, it looks like a great system. A great system that seems to refuse to run anything for me.



So... am I missing something or is this the "C64 experience"?

[Kitsune Sniper]

I tried C64 emulation and couldn't understand a thing.

But I'll give the system props for the amazing amount of musical genius that it was host to.

[tom]

I only work with original hardware, never any probs, so I can't help, sorry

[Gapporin]

If you're having trouble with emulation, one thing that I might suggest is trying to swap the gameports used. Some C64 games used port 1, some used port 2. There was never a definite standard. So, if you can't get past a cracktro or it seems like the game is being unresponsive, check that first.

Otherwise, I'd suggest using MESS, but that's probably another step up or two on the learning curve.

Actually, now that I think about, I think Flack wrote a C64 emulation guide somewhere...ah, here we are. It's pretty expansive, so I'd recommend reading through it to get a good idea of how C64 emulation works.

The C64 is definitely a great computer, though, and worth getting into. I'd put it in my Top 3 US/European computers.

[Soviet Conscript]

I only work with original hardware, never any probs, so I can't help, sorry

same here

i used to have ALOT of problems getting disks to read with the old 1541 drives but after i hooked up a 1541-II i rarely have any problems getting a game to load up.

[Trebuken]

Try a differnt emulator.

http://www.zophar.net/c64.html

Definitely not the C64 experience. Perhaps the C64 emulation experience...

Retro Computing takes a great of determination if you are coming into it for the first time...

The Commodore 64 bridged the gap between the Atari 2600 and the NES. It was essentially THE gaming system of the time and it's gaming library is among the best there is...

[AB Positive]

Try a differnt emulator.

http://www.zophar.net/c64.html

Definitely not the C64 experience. Perhaps the C64 emulation experience...

Retro Computing takes a great of determination if you are coming into it for the first time...

The Commodore 64 bridged the gap between the Atari 2600 and the NES. It was essentially THE gaming system of the time and it's gaming library is among the best there is...

I guess - but it just seems odd to me how different the learning curve is to get it up and running. It completely blindsided me considering how I've not had any issues getting A8 or Amiga stuff up and running (via emulation or, as I have, the real hardware)

I'm going to read Flack's guide, as before I invest yet again in C64 stuff I want to be certain I can a) get it running and b) want something to run



EDIT: Welp, never mind. Apparently, I just suck at getting working images. I guess I'll see if I find anything neat now. Stay tuned!

[tom]

a) get a C128
b) Zak McKraken, Omega, Times of Lore, Space Rogue, Breakers, Might and Magic II, Battletech, The Magic Candle, Rings of Zilfin, Portal, any Gold Box, Alter Ego, Tass Times..., Star Fleet I, Hacker II, The Bard's Tale III, Sentinel Worlds I, Heart of Africa, Starflight, The Halley Project, The Mars Saga, Castles of Dr Creep, Knights of Legend, Storm across Europe, Project Firestart, Wizards Crown....those clssics should keep you amused for some time

[Jorpho]

I can't question that there were a lot of great C64 games - but really, the chunky low-res graphics can be kind of off-putting, especially if you're looking at a game that has much nicer looking ports on other systems (and there's no shortage of those). Just what the heck is the appeal of Forbidden Forest, exactly!?

But the emulation experience can be a bit annoying as well, since I've found there are many ways that things can go wrong but still seem just right enough to make one not question whether the emulator is at fault.

[Soviet Conscript]

a) get a C128
b) Zak McKraken, Omega, Times of Lore, Space Rogue, Breakers, Might and Magic II, Battletech, The Magic Candle, Rings of Zilfin, Portal, any Gold Box, Alter Ego, Tass Times..., Star Fleet I, Hacke II, The Bard's Tale III, Sentinel Worlds I, Heart of Africa, Starflight, The Mars Saga, Castle fo Dr Creep, Knights of Legend, Storm across Europe, Project Firestart, Wizards Crown....those clssics should keep you amused for some time

i have a c128 and i keep considering replaceing my c64c with it but can't find a compelling reason to since i'm only useing it for c64 games. the c128 is also a little big for the spot its going in though so the athetics are a bit of a issue

[tom]

Personally I think the 128 looks nicer, and...autoboot...some games like Gunship, Ultima V and so forth.

[Mayhem]

You might need to turn on True Drive Emulation within the emulator (especially Vice) to get the disk images working. Plus you can get assured working images from the http://www.gamebase64.com website.

[AB Positive]

I do still have a c128 in my closet but no power supply... 1541 drive and cable so if I find a c128 power brick I"m set... but I'm still deciding on going through the bother.

I have the v5 versions of Turrican I and II, two games I still can't get running. I've tried True Drive and I've tried without... warped ahead to see if it was a long load but nothing started pass the trainers... space, enter, CAPS (RUN/STOP on a C=), joystick in port a and b... I'm guessing it's the image at this point. Everything else seems to be going, and I got some from the list running this time 'round.

So far... I clearly need to read the instructions for some of these, heh. Last Ninja seems intriguing but I know I'm missing a key to pick up stuff. I'm sure I'll have a fuller experience - but the attacking and jumping made intuitive sense (reminded me a bit like IK+) and the music was quite good.

Still checking stuff out but I may have to scrounge up for a c128 power plug...

[Pete Rittwage]

I can't question that there were a lot of great C64 games - but really, the chunky low-res graphics can be kind of off-putting, especially if you're looking at a game that has much nicer looking ports on other systems (and there's no shortage of those). Just what the heck is the appeal of Forbidden Forest, exactly!?

The music, the atmosphere, the pseudo 3-D and mostly- the nostalgia. The work that went into doing parallax scrolling with custom character graphics is impressive.

[Arkhan]

a) get a C128
b) Zak McKraken, Omega, Times of Lore, Space Rogue, Breakers, Might and Magic II, Battletech, The Magic Candle, Rings of Zilfin, Portal, any Gold Box, Alter Ego, Tass Times..., Star Fleet I, Hacker II, The Bard's Tale III, Sentinel Worlds I, Heart of Africa, Starflight, The Halley Project, The Mars Saga, Castles of Dr Creep, Knights of Legend, Storm across Europe, Project Firestart, Wizards Crown....those clssics should keep you amused for some time

Those will keep AB amused assuming RPGs are what hes looking for... lol

WinVICE is the only C64 emulator you should bother using. If you have an X-1541 cable you can hook it up to your PC and boot real disks in the emulator, copy disks, etc....

I would stay away from TOSEC. use gamebase64 like mayhem mentioned. Most games in vice you can just click "Autostart disk or tape image" and go go go with it. Sometimes you have to just attach it and give the

LOAD "*" ,8 or LOAD "*" ,8,1

Games you should try if slowpaced RPGs arent what youre huntin for:

Space Taxi, Katakis, Parallax, Creatures 1 and 2, mayhem in monsterland, Paradroid, Black Tiger, Usagi Yojimbo, First Samurai, Stormlord, Neverending Story II, Dantes Inferno, Vixen (its not THAT bad), Shadow of the Beast (!), Phantis

and two other rpgs that werent mentioned:

Wasteland and Neuromancer


there are others too. I recommend Temple of Apshai trilogy, and Gateway to Apshai.

Its not allllll bad, you just have to find the gems buried under tons of piles of crap. Thats what happens when 3 million bajillion of the fuckers sell, everyone and their dippy brother make games for the thing

[tom]

And don't forget Nemesis the Warlock, it's a graphical experience you never forget ;-)

[Arkhan]

im just glad noone suggest MULE.

[tom]

M.U.L.E. works best on Atari 800, 4 players and all that

[phreakindee]

I'm very surprised no one has mentioned the problem with using many Tosec images and such cracked collections like that. In my experience, the majority of them will not load past the cracktro, due to most of the cracked games out there being written for European systems and my using an American C64. When I get the same game from another source that is made to run on an NTSC system all is flawless. Many, if not all, of the games you mentioned didn't work for me either until I got an NTSC version. With emulation, just make sure you are set up to run the right system. CCS64 and Winvice worked the best for me

[Ze_ro]

You still haven't really told us exactly what's happening beyond "it doesn't work". What is going on? Are all these games locking up at a black screen, or not loading at all, or what?

One thing you may need to keep in mind is that in a lot of cases, you're better off getting cracked copies of games rather than the original. Some of the more aggresive forms of copy protection still don't work well in emulators. Remember and Nostalgia are two of my favourite cracking groups out there, and both of their web pages have download links on them so you can get disks you KNOW work. Though keep in mind that both groups are European, so you will probably have to set your emulator to PAL if you haven't already (I know at least a few crack intros cause my real life NTSC C128 to lock up).

--Zero

[Flack]

As a long time C64 owner and a guy who still has a real Commie hooked up in his computer room, I have to admit that I do most of my C64 game playing via emulation. I'm not saying it's as authentic but it sure is a lot more convenient.

Track down one of the GameBase releases. They are up to version 6.0 now but for most people, the changes between even something like version 3 and version 6 are relatively minute (what's a hundred games in a collection of 20,000?). As far as I know they all (or at least the vast majority) work in WinVice. I second Mayhem's recommendation of putting WinVice in true 1541 emulation mode and then hitting alt-w to warp past the load times ... the true emulation mode loads a lot more "non-cracked" titles.

Two collections I recommend are the Blast Collection and the Arcade Collection. I don't remember when or where I found them, but each one contains over a thousand games and both weed out a lot of the crappy BASIC games that you end up getting. Just like iTunes, with such a large library, there's a lot of low quality crap out there and some of the collections like Blast have weeded a lot of it out for you.

[AB Positive]

You still haven't really told us exactly what's happening beyond "it doesn't work". What is going on? Are all these games locking up at a black screen, or not loading at all, or what?

One thing you may need to keep in mind is that in a lot of cases, you're better off getting cracked copies of games rather than the original. Some of the more aggresive forms of copy protection still don't work well in emulators. Remember and Nostalgia are two of my favourite cracking groups out there, and both of their web pages have download links on them so you can get disks you KNOW work. Though keep in mind that both groups are European, so you will probably have to set your emulator to PAL if you haven't already (I know at least a few crack intros cause my real life NTSC C128 to lock up).

--Zero

Waha - you may have found my turrican issue - I have Remember's versions from gamebase, but I do believe I'm running as a ntsc machine. I'll give the switch a try.

C64 Giana Sisters to me plays way better than the Amiga version - I can see why there's fans now, as bad as that sounds

The funniest one I've tried is "Galaga" ... there's two actually, B&W and color, and both have every sprite as just three or four pixels a piece. But... the ships and enemies move rather smoothly. Looks like a ZX81 game but was kinda fun to play. Certainly an interesting find.

As Arkhan said - I started with TOSEC when I was first getting frustrated with the emulator, I've found better ones to try. I agree with the 'finding gems in the crap' but in a way so does the NES and the Genesis so I'm seeing why it has fans. I may have to find that power brick and get one of those XE connectors again off eBay. (I had done a 64HDD setup but never really clicked with the machine)

edit - nope it's Crazy Town or something for Turrican one... goes to a screen saying how to skip levels Turrican+9 trainer and just holds - with no key or button press seeming to move it. Turrican II worked moving to PAL so I got to try that... think the Amiga ruined that one for me, heh.

[Mayhem]

For Turrican, I grabbed the version @ GB64 and tried that. It's asking you Y/N for the questions about whether you want infinite lives etc, so hit Y or N to answer the questions. After running through them, the title screen should boot up.

If you have True Drive Emulation turned on in Vice and running in PAL (although I also tested up to the title screen in NTSC and it works fine), not sure what to suggest... what version of Vice are you using?

[AB Positive]

For Turrican, I grabbed the version @ GB64 and tried that. It's asking you Y/N for the questions about whether you want infinite lives etc, so hit Y or N to answer the questions. After running through them, the title screen should boot up.

If you have True Drive Emulation turned on in Vice and running in PAL (although I also tested up to the title screen in NTSC and it works fine), not sure what to suggest... what version of Vice are you using?

Yep - that was it. Son of a... I had no idea it was prompting me, I guess I expected it to be at the bottom not middle.

I've tried a fair number of the suggestions made in this thread... and perhaps I should ask a different question - are there any games that are either exclusive or that the 'best port' is on the C64?

I have an a500 so while Rick Dangerous is good per se - the miggy version seems more solid. Turrican 1 and 2 similarly so. Archon and Alternate Reality: The City have great A8 versions... and admittedly I can't play Starflight on anything but a Genesis (I know, heresy...)

Space Taxi I tried and was quite fun and I've not heard of a version of that on any of my other systems so there's on in it's column.

[Flack]

I suspect that most games that were ported to 16-bit machines like the Amiga and Genesis are going to look better on those platforms than on the C64. Some of it probably comes down to preference as well. I spent so many years behind a Commodore keyboard that games like Skate or Die or California Games, while available on multiple 8-Bit machines, "look" and "feel" right to me on the 64. It's something about that machine's graphic aspect ratio and color palette. The Apple II and NES versions of those games never did it for me.

A lot of it too -- and this goes for all of retrogaming, I suppose -- is that it was the best in its time frame. For example, there were games like ... oh, Kung Fu Master or Yie Ar Kung Fu that I think the C64 home ports were some of the best. Today you can simply fire them up in MAME and play the originals and no, I don't think the C64 versions are better than the arcade versions. Back in the mid-80s, you could either play a pretty good home port or save up some quarters and then beg your mom to take you to the arcade to play them.

I will have to run down my game directory later and pull out some C64 exclusives for you. I can tell you that when I'm bored, I often pull out Park Patrol, Toy Bizarre, Jumpman, Paradroid, and Bruce Lee (which, after 20 something years, I finally beat!)