Looks like PC World is getting in on the drama...
In all seriousness though, when things like this happen, we as gamers all win by paying less.
Also I didnt know PS3 was BC with PS1 Games, im gonna go try this out right now!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/17041...ce_fight.html/
This poll is dumb. heybtm is right. It proves nothing. Treating it as any sort of "news" is simply absurd. The 360 breaks. We get it. GameInformer's poll doesn't give us any firm numbers. It's probably close to 80% if you bring it out over a 4 or 5 year timeline, but that's just speculation on my part. MS has to get on the ball and get a new system out there; I have no idea why they don't fix it. It's gotta be cheaper than accepting millions of repairs.
That PCGamer comparison is even dumber. It uses the highest prices for all the items on the list, PS3 or 360, and just generally has no reason for existing. The PS3 is only a "better deal" if you need all of that stuff from the get go. There are people perfectly happy with the Arcade unit only. Sony should release a stripped down PS3 for cheaper; maybe some people want that more than a million different features?
I've been wondering this since I first started to hear mass reports of the rrod. And when Peter Moore said that they were extending the warranty to three years I was pretty sure that Microsoft was finally going to redesign the system. Instead they have only redesigned the main chips and made it less likely to overheat. They pretty much have one last shot at redesigning this thing and that would be for the version that will be bundled with Natal next year.Originally Posted by Rob2600
ALL HAIL THE 1 2 P
Sweet, it must be a New week as there is ANOTHER 360 thread about RR0D.....awesome.
Part of the #Vbender Crew
It's always fascinated me that the gaming community at large is always so angry when a PS3 price comparison chart is displayed.Looks like PC World is getting in on the drama...
In all seriousness though, when things like this happen, we as gamers all win by paying less.
Also I didnt know PS3 was BC with PS1 Games, im gonna go try this out right now!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/17041...ce_fight.html/
I mean ... yes, it's very nice that Microsoft offers an Arcade unit for $200 with the bare essentials for both the 1st time current gen gamer as well as the 360 owner that's sick and tired of sending their console back to MS for the umpteenth time.
But, the pissing fits of "BUT WE DON'T NEED ALL THAT EXTRA STUFF!" that those charts elicit always make me scratch my head. Well ... yeah, you might not ever want to go online with your 360 ... or play any game that requires a HDD install ... or download more than 1-2 XBLA games ... and maybe you want to run 50 feet of ethernet cord across your house or drill a hole in a wall/floor/ceiling to get online ... but there are people out there that would like to avoid such silliness.
Have NONE of us been in a Game Stop, Best Buy or Target and overheard a parent asking about getting their kids' arcade unit 360 (that they likely bought very recently) onto the internet? I always feel terrible just listening to that conversation much less watching the parent's face when the clerk tells them that they'll need to sign up for XBL at $50 (repeating yearly) for the year (or some other 3 month variant pricing) get a HDD for optimum usage of DLC games (and they never have the cheap 20 gig units in stock) and in almost every instance that I've ever encountered they ask if the 360 is near the internet router (which it never is) and they'll need to buy a $100 wireless device (and let's face it, at this point in the game, even semi-tech-savvy soccer moms and nascar dads who have a laptop know that that's WAY too much to be paying for a Wi Fi dongle) ...
... I really don't understand how people who have heard that conversation being had live and in person can not feel dirty about the cost of extras on the 360 and the massive inflation that it costs, even in part to get an Arcade unit 360 online and fully optimized via over-priced hardware.
It's almost like those units are a "trap" designed to help MS recoup a small fraction of the cost of the billions lost in system repairs, and while I know that's just the crazy gaming conspiracy theorist in me ... I still don't understand how even a rational person can look at those comparisons on paper and get ANGRY over them.
I'd rather pay a bit more out of the gate and not ever need anything else to do everything a system has to offer than have to trickle out a few hundred over the course of a year and spend time in between not getting the most out of a system. And now the playing field in terms of base price is level enough for everybody to make that decision plainly.
Power to the peoples!
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
The biggest piece of shit in gaming history!
I tip my hat to you good sir!
No I haven't overheard them, but I've certainly been on the selling side of that situation. I worked in the electronic department at my job for about 3 years and at one point I went through that same situation almost every day. I always tried to convince the buyers to get the middle ground 360 just because I knew how much they were getting ripped off, yet a lot of them still went for the Arcade even after I told them they were saving more then $100 with the HDD and games included.
The arcade always seemed useless to me, especially when seeing that the memory unit is a whopping $50. So maybe Microsoft released the cheaper Arcade for people who didn't feel like waiting for their 360 to come back for repairs, because I know a few people who've said they scored a 360 from buddy of theirs that way.
Breaking Bad 3x02 - Caballo Sin Nombre
A FEKA goon like you sure has some balls to post that. YOU'RE NOT EVEN HUMAN!
My Consoles:
This is nothing more than sensationalist journalism performed on a shoddy statistical study. I think the proper quote for this thread is "Lies, damned lies and statistics."
Why exactly is everyone exploding over a magazine not presenting any new credible information? There have been over 17,000,000 360's sold in the US, as well as over 24,000,000 Wii's and over 9,000,000 PS3's sold. The number 5,000 when tied to one specific market (those who read that magazine) is a joke in comparison with those sales numbers. If they're not going to increase their sample size, they should at least come back with a better cross section of respondents.
Am I saying that the 360 is reliable? No, I'm on my second. My argument here is solely against the alleged study that produced the statistics in the article.
That being said, the value of this "survey" to me is zero.
What I do not understand is why Microsoft did not redesign the 360 and make a slim type varient that addresses the hardware problems. Isn't this costing MS tons and tons of money? Or are there actually advantages to this, like the fact their install base is grossly over inflated because of people having to replace there systems?
I really do not understand this at all..
My System History in order of purchase: Coleco Vision - Master System - Genesis - Game Gear - Sega CD - 32X - Saturn - Nomad - PS1 - Dreamcast - PS2 - DS - PS3 (60GB) - PSP - 360.
I agree completely. And it's not just MS. For all the rather pointless arguments about game pricing that go on ("Games cost too much" vs. "They're cheaper than NES games were") the dirty little secret in the industry is that as time went on (and perhaps game prices went down overall) accessories and various add ons have skyrocketed to absurd levels. On more than one occasion I've seen people freak over the price of the 360's proprietary HDD.
A Western Digital 1TB HDD from Best Buy costs about $105. That comes to about $0.11 per gig. The Xbox 360's 120gb drive comes to about $1.25 per gig. That means there's about a 1036% premium for the 360's HDD.
If you think people freak over the basic price of the accessory, imagine what they'd think if they knew that number. And this isn't even taking into account that Best Buy isn't the cheapest place to get a hard drive. And for every person I've seen do a double take at the 360 accessories, I've seen just as many people's jaw drop upon learning how much it costs to get just one "complete" Wii controller. And let's not forget the premium placed on SD cards that just happened to have the Wii name attached and the various cheap plastic controller casings that cost $20 or so. But at least the latter aren't necessary.
Yes, there are cheaper alternatives. There are infinitely cheaper ways of getting a 360 connected to a wireless network (one of which I'm using myself) and there are cheaper SD cards that don't have Nintendo branding. But these are the exception to the rule. In the case of the 360's HDD and the Wii controllers, the proprietary hardware is often the only option. When a publisher releases an accessory and you have to hope that there are non-proprietary options available to be able to stomach the expense then something is wrong.
Last edited by TonyTheTiger; 08-19-2009 at 12:59 PM.
The arcade is perfectly fine for alot of people. Personally I have 4 Xbox 360s and 3 are arcades. I have one with a 20GB hard drive that I use in my living room as the main console. I have one in my bedroom that has a 512mb memory card that I can use to transfer saves between consoles and dl a couple live arcade games that I am into at the moment. The other 2 are for my kids who each have arcades with 256mb memory cards that handle their game saves. The last thing I want is for them to go online with them so they are perfect.
My System History in order of purchase: Coleco Vision - Master System - Genesis - Game Gear - Sega CD - 32X - Saturn - Nomad - PS1 - Dreamcast - PS2 - DS - PS3 (60GB) - PSP - 360.
and there are just as many who have no need/desire to go online. why should they pay extra if all they want to do is play 360 games? and afaik, only 4 games require a hd. microsoft built a modular system that can be built up from basic to blinged.
sony lumps everyone together, and everyone pays more. microsoft splits off secondary features as accessories in order to have an inexpensive base system; so the cheapskates pay less and the technophiles pay more. not saying one's better than the other; depends on what your needs are.
just because you want all the extras in a system doesn't mean everyone else does (i mean, look at the wii... i keed, i keed). i can whip up a chart too, showing the base price needed to play madden 10:
360: $200 + game
ps3: $300 + game
so obviously, 360 r win, amirite? (no, for those whose sarcasm detectors are broken)
the 360 is currently on its 4th hardware revision. although i agree that by this time rrod should have been a non-issue for 360s, the risk has been reduced. but maybe people do need a slim 360 to visually separate the 'old' rrod-prone 360 from a new (hopefully rrod-proof) 360. probably will with valhalla and natal coming.
oh, and as for the topic, my 3yo used 360 still runs like a champ.
you know whats funny?
the ppl who think this survey is crap also include this statement in their post
"im on my second 360"
lol...
In this console generation of full featured online console "services" (even the HANDHELDS both have them) - and this modern era of online connectivity (all major cable and telephone companies can get people online with minimal effort) -
I have a difficult time believing that the number of folks who have full and complete understanding and have formed a stoic opinion/position that they will NEVER through the lifespan of their console ownership want to experience online play/connectivity in any fashion is as high as it may have been just a few years ago.
Nearly every single game has online functionality of some sort and more and more major releases are exclusive to XBLA or PSN and require online functionality to download much less play them.
I don't take issue that Microsoft allows consumers to buy a completely feature-stripped unit. No. That is NOT my problem at all.
My problem is that when a middle-of-the-road user (maybe a soccer mom who wants to try HALO 3 multi-player, maybe a tween who wants to watch Netflix and do an Avatar Netflix watching party, maybe a grandparent who hears good things about UNO Rush) makes a decision to make the upgrade from their "bargain priced" Arcade unit - that they're hit in the pocket-book so aggressively and in most cases unexpectedly by Microsoft.
It's just not fair to assume that every single customer who buys an arcade unit is doing so because they've made a decision to be an offline-only gaming Luddite.
I'm sure that most ONLY see the low cost of entry of the Arcade unit and are often completely BLIND-SIDED by the high cost of upgrading to get the unit fully optimized once they DO decide that they want a bit more.
Arcade $199
HDD $50 - $150
Wi Fi Dongle $100
Approximate cost - $350-$400 not counting XBL membership.
That's just not fair especially when you consider the average cost of the hardware going into things like the Wi Fi Dongle and the HDD.
That's my issue, and my only issue.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I don't know about you guys, but i think that is pretty stupid that only 3.8% of the 360 owners that had the RRoD will never purchase the console again ....
The most bizarre fact is that 36.4 % that have purchased more than one console .... damn it ! 360 users don't seem to get enough of the system :S
Las calles no son basurero, POR FAVOR TIREN LA BASURA EN SU LUGAR !!!!
who says you cant go online with the 360 arcade unit?
of couse you can...
wifi? cmon man, I bought the wifi adapter and gave it to my bro because I noticed the difference between being wired vs wireless...
Most of my friends who have ps3's choose to have them wired then to use the wireless...
so forget wireless...
you dont need all the much space to play online... so the hard drive isnt that important... the hard drive is important for downloading demos, videos, DLC... thats it...
You want to take a shot at me? Go ahead and take a real shot instead of hiding behind a snide little comment.
I made my point, backed it up with evidence and tried to remove bias as much as I could so that I could make a valid point. Then I mentioned my broken 360 as a way of showing that yes, I do realize that the 360 breaks. I just wanted anyone reading my argument to be clear that all I wanted was to see more accurate numbers around system failures.
As this debate typically goes, there is a segment of 360 users that seem to think that an arcade unit is fashioned for an "acceptable" gaming experience.
Again, I don't have a problem with the SKU existing, it does serve logical purposes, I simply do not believe that it is fashioned for an optimized experience.
I challenge any current 360 owner on the forum to do the following:
- If you have a Wi-Fi dongle in use where your 360 is conveniently located - remove it. Go to Radio Shack and buy enough ethernet cord to connect it to your 360.
- If you have a HDD attached, remove it. Go to Gamestop and buy a used 256 MB 360 memory card.
- If you have a Gold XBLA membership, create a new Silver account, and stop logging in under Gold.
Do you think, with your current gaming habits - that you can go an entire year with your 360 set up with those limitations and not experience even the slightest desire to optimize and/or return at least ONE of those features??
Even if you don't want to do those things, just take a moment to think about them.
Do you think it's fair to offer a low cost of entry with such severe limitations but then make the steps to optimization SO EXPENSIVE that they're effectively paying almost DOUBLE what they would have?
Man, I wouldn't wish those restrictions on my worst enemy, much less a new/first time entry into current-gen gaming.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
1. why is it that everyone thinks that a persons router is miles away from their 360s?
2. if you bought the arcade unit why would you buy a 256 memory card when it comes with one?
3. from the arcade unit to the elite unit, you only get the same amount of membership... its not like you get one year membership with the elite...
your list is moot...
how would you get them to present you with more accurate numbers?
At the risk of further beating a dead horse/derailing this thread:
Bottom line is that a lot of people don't need wi-fi, HD cables, Blu-Ray and a 120GB HD. Why? They don't have broadband, an HDTV etc.
On the subject of buying another console when mine broke: I like the games. I like the games more than the PS3's games. I like the online more than the PS3's online. I like the Media Extender capabilities. My 360 could break a dozen times and I'll still own one.I might not buy an Xbox 720, but I'll keep with the 360. The software is good.
Last edited by unwinddesign; 08-19-2009 at 03:16 PM.
I've weighed in and supported my position.
I know this position is impossible to hammer home for some, but the bottom line, and I'll repeat it one last time and sign off on this thread is as follows:
The price of the Arcade 360 is very attractive model price wise. The lowest point of entry unit on the market.
But if that buyer wants to make a single upgrade to the unit, much less fully optimize it - they're all but punished with quantifiably overpriced add-on hardware.
I personally believe that consumers should be given more reasonable pricing on hardware that will allow them to MAKE A DECISION and/or CHANGE THEIR MIND as to whether or not they want a bare-bones unit at some point after they've invested and not be financially assaulted when they do so.
If you don't agree with that sentiment, good for you. You're entitled to your opinion and I support your right to have that opinion. But making blanket statements that consumers who buy an Arcade unit know what they're getting into all of the time - and if they don't they deserve what's coming to them, again, is in my opinion short-sided and unfair.
That's it. I'm done with this discussion. Carry on.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I got my arcades for $139 so for that price its a steal. The fact that people rebuy 360s where theres break is because it is still worth it to them, the cost is not that high to replace. Each system has its own advantages it is best to just own both. I really think now though that the PS3 120GB slim at $299 is the best value of any current gen system. Its hard to argue that fact and I really think it will lead to some great sales numbers. I am very happy to have both and here is why, imo.
PS3
-Reliable
-Nice exclusives
-Blu Ray
-Slicker interface and nicer to use as media center
-Free online
-Amazing deal when you think of everything you get for $299
360
-Arcades are cheapest console if you are short on money but want to get into this gen
-Online experience is better then PS3 and really not that expensive
-Nice exclusives as well
-If you want you can mod it to play copied games
-Games on both systems are generally better on 360
If everyone had both there would be no arguments!
Now if Wii would drop to 199$ like it should be I would have all 3 systems.
My System History in order of purchase: Coleco Vision - Master System - Genesis - Game Gear - Sega CD - 32X - Saturn - Nomad - PS1 - Dreamcast - PS2 - DS - PS3 (60GB) - PSP - 360.
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