"I refer you back to "Galaga".
The tedious thing about this thread is people too ignorant to read what's being posted."
Sorry, the "Galaga/Frogger" pages fell out of my AP manual. Would you be kind enough to quote what you are referring to?
Just out of curiosity what's with all the attitude? I thought you Brits were supposed to be a polite lot.
After reading this thread, I’ve learned a very, very important thing:
Frogger II is serious business.
So in staying serious, I decided to poke around on my own regarding this mysterious "Frogger II".
After viewing scanned images of the boxes and cartridges on the various platforms, that answer is good enough for me. It’s not an “affected spelling” (you see that little ™ next to the word Threeedeep on the cover? You typically don’t trademark affected spellings.), and it’s certainly not an issue of grammar.Originally Posted by MobyGames
Stuart Campbell simply seems to have been wrong on the title. There's no other way to put it. You can't just arbitrarily rename things because you hold the opinion that they're not spelled the way they should be. That said, I haven't read the article and haven't seen it in context. Regardless, it's not that big a deal in the long run given the dissimilarities of the game's title on PC and console platforms and certainly won't distract from me reading otherwise excellent articles.
What's more important is how juvenile he is acting in response to a valid criticism about his article. Ultimately (and literally) telling people to fuck themselves on the internet is pathetic, and coming from someone who fancies themselves a journalist, it’s also professionally dangerous. You go on to insult and belittle hobbyists who take a serious interest in classic gaming as “spoddy, whiny fanboys” when you’re criticized (not with generalities either, with specifics). Seeing as how these “spoddy, whiny fanboys” currently butter your bread with said magazine, your IQ isn’t looking too hot either.
As a result, I, for one, will ensure that I never pay for anything you’re associated with.
I know the thought of a single, random person on the internet boycotting your apparently very witty, and informative magazine (I have no idea what other fine publications you give your journalistic credence to, but I’ll be sure to find out) over a pompous and offensive stand-off on the interwebs is mildly entertaining, but it’s the best way I can stress my opinion that I think you’re an asshole. And don’t worry, I already assume it’s mutual.
British commercial jingle "Beanz Meanz Heinz"
British band Slade: "Cum on feel the noize"
Last edited by Alison DeMeyer; 07-12-2007 at 06:14 PM.
We are. But we're also very intolerant of rude ignorant cretins. I'd never tell someone to fuck off for disagreeing with me or criticising something I wrote in a reasoned, rational manner. So far the standard of debate is so retarded that it barely even deserves capital letters at the start of sentences, never mind proper respect and consideration.
Says who? Point me to the law.
You seem to have contradicted yourself there. I for one am so disgusted I will be boycotting all your internet posts from now on, and so will my wife.Regardless, it's not that big a deal in the long run given the dissimilarities of the game's title on PC and console platforms and certainly won't distract from me reading otherwise excellent articles.
As a result, I, for one, will ensure that I never pay for anything you’re associated with.
But only from your side.
O
LMAO! I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE! YOU PWNED ME GOOD!
!
Good grief. Why is eveyone so damn serious on what is supposed to be a fun hobby? How are we supposed learn about things if we aren't taught? I suppose I could spend all day on Google but I like my gaming info in a nice, tight magazine form that I can read in an hour or two... always have, probably always will. Retro Gamer has educated me about A LOT of things that I didn't know.
Even the most serious and respectable publications have errors and occasionally mediocre writing... and Retro Gamer is hardly Time Magazine or Newsweek. It's a niche magazine written for the hardcore gamer and I for one am thankful to get it. It's not perfect, but *nothing* ever is.
I also wish that Retro Gamer could cover EVERY conversion of a particular game but there is simply not enough space for that. How many times have you read an article in a popular magazine and found that it wrapped up far too quickly, leaving you wanting for more? It has happened to me plenty.
I think the more popular and slickly-produced PLAY magazine has bigger problems- their reviews are for sale (such as the new Sonic the Hedgehog with its 9.5 rating) and lets not forget the ever-gay/arrogant Nick Des Barres but I still read it. Their last issue with the interview with Team Ninja was quite good (overly positive reviews notwithstanding.)
Lighten up! There are far bigger issues to debate than the spelling of Frogger.
p.s. A wise man once said "If you don't like my damn magazine then write your own."
Get writing, people.
Thanks for indulging my gaming habit when I was young, Dad. You were the best. I miss you. ~David Barnes 1926-2007~
I'm not siding with anybody here. I'll just say that there aren't a whole lot of monthly print publications with decent distribution and an established readership that are itching to do a story on Frogger II. Spelling errors aside, I'd expect people to be a little more thankful that some magazine chooses to give the damn game a few pages of coverage. As if anyone reading this thread can say they've never slacked on research or made a factual error in their lifetime.
If there are so many professional writers in this thread and the Retro Gamer article was so lousy, then why doesn't someone review a version of Frogger II for this web site to set the record straight? Oh, because they wouldn't get paid for doing it and the limited to modest amount of exposure from posting it here wouldn't benefit their career.
This thread isn't big enough for all the egos in here. Holy shit.
Let's face it, game journalism in general is considered a joke by the industry and the mainstream media. It serves a purpose but is clearly stuck in the ghetto. Even top journalists like N'Gai Croal fuck up certain facts on a fairly consistent basis! Don't ask for examples - find em yourself!!
From what I've read of RG I haven't been impressed. I admit I haven't read much but now I'm interested... I hope it's worth the effort.
As for the thrashing SC is receiving what do you expect? Every self rightous fucktard on the net feels the need to be an overly critical fuckface from time to time. I've done it too. I admire the time he's taken to defend his work and his passion.
And as for the chest thumping "I've done this for XX years" get over it. I understand why you're saying it but you sound like certain journalists turned assistant PR Weasels that fell off the face off the earth.
No offense to anyone. Great thread. We needed something like this at DP. It's been too quiet!!!
I don't want you to hate me, I want you to want to hate me - GamersUniteMagazine.com
The straw that broke my proverbal back was his attitude. There's ways to defend your work without being so damn insulting.
I don't care how good his articles might be or how many weeks he takes to prepare an article. And I don't really care how he spelled Frogger II's full title. But If he's going to insult his readers, and potential readers, by calling them idiots with low IQs and anal-retentive fanboys, insisting they "fuck off", then anything he's involved with can rot on the stands as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't really know Mayhem was involved with the magazine, he's someone I really respect on these boards. Had I known sooner, I'd have made a real effort to get the magazine. But after this fiasco, I'll have to support him without using my wallet.
Problem is, most writers, at least the professional ones, aren't going to respond in the manner in which the writer has decided to respond. Additionally, if an error is made, a correction is made in the next issue. I can't imagine any writer for a mainstream publisher following up on an allegation of factual error in his writing by telling the person he is whiny and to go fuck himself.
First, as mentioned above, the writer in question is hardly acting "professional". Second, if the writer, or his publisher, expect to get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product, they should act professional in response to such criticisms by their consumers instead of resorting to such philistine and sophmoric tactics such as bullying, belittling and name calling. Such a response should not be tolerated no matter what line of work you are in, nor should it it be justified by others.
Hey, I agree with you actually. The smartest thing Mr. (or Rev.) Campbell could have done is ignored the controversy. Creating an account here just to respond to a couple of critics was unnecessary. Like you said, most writers aren't going to do that. Some guy from Gamepro or EGM isn't going to show up every time there is a thread about one of their articles.
You know something, though? Whether anyone likes him or the article, he was hired by the magazine because he has some talent as a writer. They didn't fill his position at Retro Gamer by picking a name out of a hat.
Wah wah wah look at the nasty man calling people names boo hoo.
If you'd devoted less of your time to being a whiny hypocritical crybaby and actually read my first post, it's a playfully-phrased and careful, patient explanation of the ethos behind the way the features in question are written. At the very LEAST, even if it takes a couple of little digs, it's still a lot more polite than calling someone an incompetent who can't do their research properly when it's YOU who hasn't checked his facts.
Unfortunately, it met with nothing but pathetic playground "No, YOU are
I don't know what you do for a living, but if you were a professional who'd spent hundreds of hours of your life diligently researching and working on a series of features - paid at well below your usual rates - just so that you were damn sure they were complete, comprehensive and correct, specifically because you cared that the information was finally out there in a proper accurate form instead of all the misleading bollocks that fills the internet, and then some fucking buffoon comes along and posts some incredibly offensive and insulting and just plain WRONG shit about it for the world to read, unjustifiably attacking your professionalism in a personal way, I wonder if you'd respond with as much restraint as I did. Feel free to point us at some of your work so we can find out.
I don't give a damn about the respect of cretins, and anyone who's such a simple-minded idiot that they care more about a jocularly dismissive rude word that they hear 50 times a day than about a GENUINELY offensive insult certainly falls into that category as far as I'm concerned. When you criticise the original poster for his stupid, hysterical and misguided abuse, then I might give a rat's arse-fur about what you think of my attitude. Until then, you can go and fuck yourself too, and so can your mum.
Last edited by Rev. Stuart Campbell; 07-13-2007 at 01:22 AM.
That's because most of them don't give a shit. As you can plainly see by reading anything they write.
I didn't. I responded with a simple challenge:
"If you can find ONE SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR (ie not some ridiculously pathetic Roman-numerals gripe) in the 100+ pages of Definitives published so far - just ONE - then come back here and share it with us, and maybe your views will be worth half an atom of respect."
Funnily enough, nobody's managed to take up that challenge. The "fuck off" was conditional.
As already noted, I did. I explained the purpose and rationale of the Definitive pieces fully and carefully, and why the supposed "errors" weren't therefore errors at all. Unfortunately, rather than admit his mistake like a man, the original poster descended to pathetic playground behaviour and thus the tone of the debate was set, as my granny always advised.First, as mentioned above, the writer in question is hardly acting "professional". Second, if the writer, or his publisher, expect to get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product, they should act professional in response to such criticisms by their consumers instead of resorting to such philistine and sophmoric tactics such as bullying, belittling and name calling.
Oh, and I don't expect to "get paid by the very same people who are purchasing their product". I get paid by the magazine, who are sufficiently happy with the standard of my work to have commissioned it repeatedly for 18 months. I've been a professional journalist for almost 20 years, and one thing I learned VERY early on is that you'll always upset the occasional vocal twat who flounces off in a huff promising never to buy your magazine again. Luckily, if you do your job properly, the thousands of silently satisfied customers who appreciate quality work tend to ensure that for every idiot you lose, three more-intelligent people take his place. It's a formula that's served me well for the best part of two decades, and I'm happy to carry it on, regardless of how many simpering nancies pretend to be shocked and horrified by the odd bit of mildly robust language.
You've used this defense unfairly now multiple times in this thread. I don't believe people need to be a professional writer to comment or critique something they've read, no more than a reviewer needs to be a game developer to comment or review games he or she has played.
I suppose I could post a lengthy list of articles I've written and books and magazines I've been published in so I could weigh in on Froggergate, but to be honest I think we're past the point of rational discussion. That, and I've already hit my quota of "fuck offs" from users for the day.
Back in my day, this could have all been handled at the local arcade with a roll of quarters.
That's not what I said at all. I questioned what would be the poster's reaction to similarly offensive criticism of their work, whatever that work might be - the issue being discussed was attitude, not qualifications. I've in no way whatsoever suggested that anyone needed to be a professional journalist in order to offer criticism, far less "multiple times". I welcome, even now, civil and reasonable criticism. Idiots calling me the worst researcher ever and hoping I lose my job, when it's them who's made a mistake, is something else entirely.
Yeah. In a sock.Back in my day, this could have all been handled at the local arcade with a roll of quarters.
Last edited by Rev. Stuart Campbell; 07-13-2007 at 02:07 AM.
This is one of the better geek fights we've had around here in a while, I must admit.
I'll repeat myself here and say that I appreciate what Retro Gamer has to offer and always enjoy reading the articles. In fact, I was down at the newsagent today and just bought a copy.
Really, if you want to read a magazine about retro gaming written by gamers, what other choice do you have? I'm not going to bitch about perceived minor inaccuracies. If you read some of the other gaming magazines they are horribly written (look especially at Play or Game Informer) -- and they're just concentrating on new stuff. ( I do quite like Edge and GamesTM, though)
I say be grateful for what's available, myself.
I have noticed that other writers in Retro Gamer like a certain Mr. Carroll do take the time and effort to get the title of the game right, in this instant the game Knight Tyme from Mastertronic in issue 27. So Mr. Campbell is, as a matter of fact, slagging off his own people for saying ‘real journalists can’t be bothered with stupid game spellings’, when in truth, this is not the case. They can and they will.
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