Definitive series in Retro Gamer...worst writing/research?

[Mayhem]

Yep - I liked it too - Immensely - Was obviously written by a fan of the good ol' C64 (Still got mine, with all the extras, and an MMC64.. ...oh, and another 40-50 at present ...and no, I'm not Bullsh*tting - Though erm... I may have bought one or two many! ) - Mind you, I didn't know Mayhem had written that article!...

...However.... What was with the Screenshots montage? - AARRGH!! - The C64 has FANTASTIC colours, but the whole thing was just a wash of grey, purple, and green!!! - I doubt it did Mayhem's hard work justice, and if anything, would have turned people off the good 'ol C64!!! - Grrr... As an avid RG subscriber and regular retro event attendee, I was *soooo* close to writing in an' having a moan, especially as the Speccie article got nice, vibrant colours on it's montage! (Hmmm... Bias? -Nooooo... I'd like to think it was just that the printers got it wrong... )

Thanks... always nice to hear compliments on your work. Many people don't know my real name heh... though it does get included at the start of every piece I do in RG. As for the screenshots, the same fate befell them as did the ones in the Vectrex piece, the transfer from PNG/GIF over to the colour scheme used in printing didn't go very well sadly...

[smork]

I quite liked the Vectrex piece myself -- always had a soft spot for that system.

I guess I am in the minority when I say I like the new mag better than the old. The style was fine on the old, but it seemed there was too much coverage of systems I hadn't and never would play. Of course, that's because I didn't grow up in the UK...

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

(I ran my own fanzine in the UK for over 5 years ('87 - '92, Atari 8/16), written for many fanzines including Digital Press (USA), The 2600 Connection (USA), Retro Classix (UK), Portfolio Connection (UK), Atari Entertainment (UK), Lynx User (UK), and I was voted 'best writer of the year' by readers of Retrogames UK (late 90s), a best selling fanzine which ran over a period of 10 years.

Then you've really got no excuse for making groundless and offensive insults against a professional writer. I'm afraid the problem you've identified here isn't so much "bad research" as "idiot reader syndrome" - you've kinda already proved that point for me by being the sort of anal-retentive spungo who gives a crap about the difference between "II" and "2" (Roman numerals look rubbish in print, confuse readers and should normally be avoided unless there's a specific and important reason for their use. Same goes for stupid affected spellings like "Threeedeep").

However, more pertinently on this occasion, you've failed to either read (the numerous times it's been explained) or figure out for yourself (as anyone with an IQ over double figures could do from reading any one of the Definitive pieces) the fact that The Definitive... doesn't even attempt to cover every single release in a series on every single format. Such a feature would be 20 pages long and incredibly dull to read. (Nor do we cover unofficial homebrew releases like Jaguar Gorf, or the features would be 50 pages long, Or about 200 in the case of Lode Runner.)

The Definitive... has two purposes, oft stated. One is to clear up the tangled mess of confusion and misinformation that surrounds series like Wonder Boy, Gradius and Bubble Bobble. The other is to catalogue interesting developments in gameplay and design throughout a franchise's history, often in obscure releases that nobody's heard of. To appear in the Definitive articles, a version of a game has to either have some unique gameplay feature, or at a pinch something particularly interesting about the story of its development.

Magazine space is finite, and nobody needs or wants to waste half a precious page hearing about 10 conversions of the first Frogger on 10 different formats that all play exactly the same, when the space could be used to tell them something vastly more informative and entertaining instead, like a prototype sequel that was never released but can now be played on emulators. I have nothing against Atari formats - the forthcoming Definitive Space Invaders, for example, includes extremely extensive coverage of Atari-format versions of the game because there's something interesting about them, not because some spoddy, whiny fanboy wants to have his personal favourites acknowledged/vindicated.

I'm perfectly aware of the Atari 7800 versions of Galaga and Xevious, indeed I own the original carts of both. However, the very fact that they're excellent, faithful conversions means they're of no interest to The Definitive, because there's nothing about them that isn't already covered by the entry on the original coin-op. If all you want is a product list, there are plenty of places to find one. (The very website you're posting this on isn't a bad start, though its standards fall well short of what's acceptable to The Definitive.) At RG we prefer to spend our time telling people things they don't already know. The Definitive... has been doing that for the last 17 months, and everyone but you seems to be extremely happy with it, which is why it keeps getting re-commissioned.

Oh, and as for "proper research"? I devote weeks of research to Definitive pieces, rather than just cut-and-pasting from Wikipedia and crappy fansites like most idiot gaming hacks (including those of Edge, which makes more factual errors in an average issue than RG has in its entire history), which is why they're called Definitive. If you can find ONE SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR (ie not some ridiculously pathetic Roman-numerals gripe) in the 100+ pages of Definitives published so far - just ONE - then come back here and share it with us, and maybe your views will be worth half an atom of respect. Until then, Comic Book Guy, as someone's already so wisely suggested: fuck off.

Cheerio!
RSC.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hey, Stuart uses parens as much as I do, so I'm in good company.

*high fives*

If anybody wants to see some writing that really needs some work, check this Shmups Forum thread out.

Maybe some people don't like that I usually stuck up for Zach M. and others, but I always find it refreshing when somebody who knows the writer's craft pays a little attention to our forlorn hobby - compare your local Barnes & Overpriced stocks of Depression Glass and video game buying guides. Knowing stuff...that's a bonus.

Anyway, I intended to write this earlier, but: people are being really harsh on this one. Is the Threeedeep -> Threedeep criticism the major thing levied against the article? That's not a lot to go on.

For my part I always try to stay as close to the often silly originals with game titles, but I think Stuart's explanation holds water (and boils it too).

p.s. let's all smoke a bowl...er forget this anger, and move onto playing for the same team again, please?

[smork]

If anybody wants to see some writing that really needs some work, check this Shmups Forum thread out.

Wow, I can't even make it through that article.

[Ed Oscuro]

Note, that article doesn't reflect on the intelligence of the SHMUPS Forum regular, come join the fun

Great avatar, smork! George C. Scott/Gen. Turgidson, RIP. A bit off the subject, but I did a search and turned this up, funny stuff.

[tom]

Same goes for stupid affected spellings like "Threeedeep").

Cheerio!
RSC.

And there's where your professionalism goes right down the pan. And it's your first posting too. Shame.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

And there's where your professionalism goes right down the pan. And it's your first posting too. Shame.

What on Earth are you gibbering about now?

[tom]

Difficult to grasp? You're not one of those then:>>>(anyone with an IQ over double figures<<<

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

Do YOU even know what you're talking about?

I don't have all day to waste with your desperate attempts to cover up the idiocy of your first post. "Threeedeep" IS a stupid affected spelling, and most grown-up magazines wouldn't indulge it. Crappy fanzines written by anal fanboys, maybe, but no respectable newsstand publication. And seriously, if one nitpicking spelling quibble is the best evidence you've got to accuse someone of "worst writing/research", then you really do need to fuck off before you embarrass yourself any further.

(After all, you're hardly in a position to hairsplit other people's use of grammar - "worst writing/research"? What does that even mean? Worse than what? Worst since when? Worst out of who?)

[smork]

Note, that article doesn't reflect on the intelligence of the SHMUPS Forum regular, come join the fun

Great avatar, smork! George C. Scott/Gen. Turgidson, RIP. A bit off the subject, but I did a search and turned this up, funny stuff.

That's a pretty funny article. I sure hope we aren't allowing a mine shaft gap, either.

You know, I was going to join SHMUPS last year or so when there was a Judgement Silversword discussion ongoing, but they didn't like my Yahoo mail account so I got discouraged. I should go register again...

[Ed Oscuro]

Actually, one of the questions I sent to the Contra 4 devs mentions a gap - eh, you'll have to see it; nothing too spectacular but I think the reference is a good one.

Tom: Let up on the guy already! I'm not saying you don't have a right to fixate on the number of letter Es in a row be correct each time the title appears, but damned if I can't think of a number of better ways to communicate that concern...

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with refusing to play along with the marketing game (even if Threeedeep is older) - witness STALKER. Hell, writing it as all caps is annoying enough, but I refuse to put a period after every first letter. The game's already had enough of my time and money, I'm not going the extra mile every time I want to write about it (which is actually rather often).

Anyway, we have our answer to that question.

[tom]

[QUOTE=Rev. Stuart Campbell;1210045]Do YOU even know what you're talking about?

I don't have all day to waste with your desperate attempts to cover up the idiocy of your first post. "Threeedeep" IS a stupid affected spelling, and most grown-up magazines wouldn't indulge it. Crappy fanzines written by anal fanboys, maybe, but no respectable newsstand publication. And seriously, if one nitpicking spelling quibble is the best evidence you've got to accuse someone of "worst writing/research", then you really do need to fuck off before you embarrass yourself any further.QUOTE]



I'm not embarrassing myself (Haven't done so from the start if you'd care to pay attention). You're the one having to resort to abuse.

Anyway, Ed's right as usual. I let up on the (poor) guy before he sinks even further.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

So YOU don't know what you're going on about either? Splendid.

Ta-ra!

[anagrama]

Heh. Funny shit.
Must admit, I quite liked Matt's articles & the 'Definitive...' articles that I've read. Other areas of the mag are somewhat lacking though (case in point: the 10-page price guide in every issue isn't worth the paper it's written on).

[blue lander]

An article that just rattles through every unremarkable port of a game would probably make for pretty boring read, especially if you start throwing in every obscure Japanese computer they were ported to. If you really wanted a definitive list of a game like Galaxian, you'd have to throw in stuff like the PC-6001/PC-88/PC-98/MSX/SMC-777/FM-7/MZ-700/MZ-1500/X1/JR-100/etc ad nauseum.

I didn't read the column in question, but speaking of Galaxian, One of my favorite versions is the Cassette Vision one. The graphics are incredibly crude (as with all Cassette Vision games), but I find it keeps my interest far longer than one of the more accurate ports.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

If you really wanted a definitive list of a game like Galaxian, you'd have to throw in stuff like the PC-6001/PC-88/PC-98/MSX/SMC-777/FM-7/MZ-700/MZ-1500/X1/JR-100/etc ad nauseum.

Dude, I totally hope you haven't got the wrong punctuation in any of those, or Tom will be mad.

[blue lander]

Now that I think about it, I think I used unicode symbol U+002D for the dash in SMC-777 when everybody knows the correct dash is U+208B! Please disregard my comments, everyone, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Rev. Stuart Campbell]

You scum.

[fishsandwich]

I love this mag and look forward to getting it at my local Barnes & Noble. I don't know exactly when it comes in so I check once a week... it's almost like Christmas when I see a new one on the shelf (a small Christmas, anyway.)

I knew NOTHING about the UK computer scene until I starting reading it... it's gaming from a new perspective. That price guide that's always in there could use some updating but that's the only real issue I have with the magazine.

I still like EGM ok and PLAY is decent enough except you can't trust PLAY's reviews worth a shit.

GamePro is juvenile and I don't like it or read it.

I'm done now.