Roundtable Top 100. Ever. [09/20/04 UPDATE]

[digitalpress]

Best games ever = the games that you, the gaming community, feel are the best games ever made. Not the most significant. Not the ones that were best AT THAT TIME. The ones that are the best today. Classic games that have stood the test of time and originals that are better than any sequel to follow apply, as does a game that was released last year.

This may seem like a daunting task, but I can't think of a community more familiar with building, tearing down, and tweaking game lists like the gang here. Let us proceed. This list consists of "home games", and can include computer games, handheld games, and console games. Not arcade games. That's for another list on another day.

Try to vote or dispute only on games that you have personally played. We'll address the obscure games separately so don't vote a game out just because you never heard of it.

Also note that we won't include "series" or "compilations" of any kind. A game has to stand on its own - though it may have stood on several platforms, assume "the one you like best" when voting in future.

UPDATED 09/20/04: Your job now is to lobby for games that are "missing", and you should also name a game to be removed. In order for this to happen, someone will need to SECOND your motion, so make your argument a convincing one!

Adventure (2600)
Baldur's Gate 2 (PC)
Bard's Tale, The (C64)
Baseball Stars (NES)
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16)
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Burgertime (Intellivision)
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX)
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Civilization II (PC)
Devil's Crush (TG-16)
Diablo (PC/PSX)
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy)
Dracula X (PCE Duo)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES)
Dragonstomper (2600)
Dreadnaught Factor (Intellivision,/5200)
Elite (C64)
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)
Goldeneye 007 (N64)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)
Grim Fandango (PC)
Guardian Heroes (Saturn)
Gunstar Heroes(Genesis)
Half-Life (PC)
Incredible Wizard, The (Bally Astrocade)
Jet Grind Radio (DC)
Kaboom! (2600)
Legend of Zelda, The (NES)
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES)
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64)
Lode Runner (C64, Apple II, others)
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD)
Mega Man 2 (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo)
Metroid (NES)
Metroid Prime (GC)
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES)
Military Madness (TG-16)
Miner 2049'er (800)
Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge (PC)
Ms Pac-Man (7800)
MULE (C64)
MUSHA (Genesis)
Nights into Dreams (Saturn)
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn)
Ninja Gaiden (NES)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)
Pirates! (C64)
Pitfall II (5200)
Point Blank (PSX)
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn)
River City Ransom (NES)
R-Type (TG-16)
Samurai Shodown 2 (Neo Geo)
Saturn Bomberman (Saturn)
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Shining Force CD (Sega CD)
Sim City 2000 (PC)
Snatcher (Sega CD)
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Soul Calibur(DC)
Space Invaders (2600)
Star Control 2 (PC/3DO)
Star Raiders (5200/Atari 8-bit)
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
Suikoden II (PSX)
Super Mario Bros. (NES)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Super Mario World (SNES)
Super Mario World 64 (N64)
Super Metroid (SNES)
Super Punch-Out!! (SNES)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO)
Tecmo Super Bowl (NES)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar)
Terranigma (SNES import)
Tetris (Game Boy)
Tetris Attack (SNES)
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis)
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3
Twisted Metal 2 (PSX)
Ultima IV (Apple II/C64/PC)
Ultimate Wizard (C64)
Utopia (Intellivision)
Vib Ribbon (PSX)
Warlords (2600)
Wasteland (C64)
Wipeout XL (PSX)
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)

[Gamereviewgod]

Samurai Showdown 2
Final Fight (Sega CD)
Mario 3
Tetris (any)
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES and or/3DO)
Double Dragon (Genesis)

[ManekiNeko]

Me! Me!!!
Here's my list, in no particular order:

Bubble Bobble
Galaga
Ms. Pac-Man
Arkanoid
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Gunstar Heroes
Radiant Silvergun
Guardian Heroes

JR

[digitalpress]

Bomberman Party Edition (PSX)
Doom II (PC)
Elite (C64)
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Legend of Zelda (NES)
Metal Slug (Neo-Geo)
Pirates! (C64)
Streets of Rage (Genesis)
Super Punch-Out!! (SNES)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar)

[Arcade Antics]

Here are a few... (more to come)

Adventure (2600)
H.E.R.O. (2600)
Kaboom! (2600)

[IntvGene]

Adventure
Utopia
Ultima IV
King's Quest
Doom
Super Mario Bros.
Yar's Revenge
Dune II
Kaboom!
Pitfall II

[RCorcoran]

Deluxe Galaga (Amiga)
The Bard's Tale (C64)
Adventure (VCS)
Doom (PC)
Night Stalker (Intellivision)

[NE146]

I'm sure I'll regret some of these and want to change them later.. but what the heck.

Adventure - 2600
Castlevania SOTN - PSX
Gunstar Heroes - Genesis
Zelda - Link to the Past - SNES
Military Madness - TG-16
Super Mario Kart - SNES
Mega Man 2 - NES
Blazing Lazers - TG16
Chrono Trigger - SNES
and yes.. Banjo Kazooie - N64!

[Scoots]

1 Ms Pac-Man (7800)
2 Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)
3 Legend of Zelda (NES)
4 Super Mario Bros (NES)
5 Metroid (NES)
6 Kid Icarus (NES)
7 RC Pro-Am (NES)
8 Centipede (7800)
9 Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
10 Burgertime (Intellivision)

[hezeuschrist]

Wow, daunting task indeed.

Final Fantasy II
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods)
Super Mario 3
EverQuest
Diablo
Warcraft 2
Sim City 2000
007: Goldeneye
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
And my all time number one... NES - The Goonies II

I tossed around all the SNES Squaresoft games that had a major impact (FF2, FF3, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger) but ultimately decided that FF2 had become the building block for most of them while already improving on a great formula. Not to mention a kick ass story.

And Everquest... Ugh, as much as I now despise the game, it deserves credit. The MMORPG market is going to be a permenant mainstay in todays gaming world and all of them will ultimately be compared to EQ until someone actually does the genre right. Cmon Blizzard, pull through!

[Ascending Wordsmith]

Bonk's Revenge
Saturn Bomberman
River City Ransom
Gunstar Heroes
Blades of Vengeance
Grand Theft Auto III
Super Mario All-Stars
Twisted Metal 2
Mario Party
Metal Slug X

[Goblin]

Tetris (any)
Pole Position II (7800)
Miner 2049er (800)
Jordan vs Bird (800)
Kaboom (2600)
Pole Position (2600)
Raiden (Jaguar)
HoTD (DC)
SMB (NES)
UN Squadron (SNES)

[Kid Fenris]

I assume this is supposed to be a list of my favorite games, and not the games that I'd objectively consider the best ever. So here it goes.

Radiant Silvergun (Saturn, Import)
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)
Gunstar Heroes (Genesis)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX)
Final Fantasy III/VI (SNES/PSX)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Xenogears (PSX)
Guardian Heroes (Saturn)
Super Metroid (SNES)

If imports aren't included, substitute Crystalis (NES) for Radiant.

[Sniderman]

Venture (Colecovision)
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis)
The Immortal (Genesis)
Dragonstomper (AT2600 - Supercharger)
Shining Force CD (Sega CD)
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Tetris (Gameboy)
APB (Lynx)
Dragon's Lair (3DO)
Night Trap (Sega CD)
I have no idea why I picked these in particular. very stream-of-consciousness going on here....

[k8track]

All righty, let's give it a go:

Pitfall 2 (2600)*
The Incredible Wizard (Bally Astrocade)
Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64)
Rygar (NES)
Metroid (NES)
Super Metroid (SNES)*
Venture (Colecovision)
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)
Utopia (Intellivision)
Intelligent Qube (PS1)

* = tied for position of my absolute favorite.

Argh, that was painful. Couldn't even include any 5200 games. Wow, that hurt. Ow. Ow. Ow.

[ghsqb]

Oh my, how do you choose!

Heres my first effort in no particular order:

Legend Of Zelda (NES)
Gran Turismo (PSX)
Final Fantasy 3 (SNES)
Mike Tysons Punch Out (NES)
Shining Force (Genesis)
Burgertime (Intellivision)
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD)
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Tetris (Any)
GoldenEye (N64)

[k8track]

@Sniderman,

Hey, while I was typing my list, you picked Venture as well! What a great surprise. I feel validated that a distinguished luminary such as yourself would agree with me. I prostrate myself at your feet. Great minds think alike, it would seem.

[Charlie]

Games that I don't know if anyone else would think of, but of which I consider to be five-star classics in every sense of the word.

Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64)
Goonies 2 (NES)
Star Tropics (NES)
Donkey Kong (aka Donkey Kong '94. Gameboy)
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Gameboy Color)
Point Blank seires (PSX)
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube)
Mario Party 4 (Gamecube)
Soul Caliber (Dreamcast)
Super Mario All-Stars (SNES)

[Six Switch]

So Joe will this include PC games too?

My pics for the list:
Gunstar Heroes(Genesis)
Halo(Xbox)
Unreal(Xbox)
Mario 3(NES)
Panzer Dragoon Saga(Saturn)

And one last thing Joe,we are not counting comps like Mario All Stars right? :hmm:

[scooterb23]

Baseball Stars - NES
Kaboom - 2600
Gunstar Heroes - Genesis
Super Mario Bros. 3 - NES
Mars Matrix - Dreamcast
Journey Escape - 2600 (you knew I had to put that in here ;) )
Super Monkey Ball 2 - Gamecube
Grim Fandango - PC
Archon - C64
Skaterock - C64 (hey, I liked it a lot...)

[le geek]

Lode Runner (C64, Apple II, others)
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga)
Space Taxi (C64)
Test Drive II: the duel (C64, Amiga, others)
Ultimate Wizard (C64)
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others)
Lemmings (Amiga, others)
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others)
Pinball Dreams (Amiga)
The Fool's Errand (Mac)

I have console favorites as well, but I thought I'd try to nominate some computer stuff :)

[Gunstarhero]

I wish we wouldn't pit PC and Console games on the same list, so I'm just putting down console titles here:

-Castlevania III:Dracula's Curse (NES)
-Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
-Tempest 2000 (Jaguar)
-Rush:2049 (N64)
-Metal Slug 3 (NEOGEO)
-Super Mario Bros. 3 (All-Stars version SNES)
-Super Mario World (SNES)
-Warlords (2600)
-Combat (2600)
-Super Punch-Out!!(SNES)

[Daniel Thomas]

Groovy stuff. I'm always a sucker for these kind of lists, and I'm really impressed with what everyone's throwing down. Right now, I'm going to list my personal 'Top Ten,' and later I'll highlight a few titles that might be getting overlooked.

1 - Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2 - Super Mario 64
3 - Tetris
4 - Ms. Pac-Man
5 - Super Mario (2D series)
6 - Super Bomberman 2
7 - Tony Hawk Pro Skater (series)
8 - Virtua Fighter (series)
9 - Panzer Dragoon Saga
10 - NiGHTS

Hope y'all like. I have to admit that I still haven't seen a lot of the current console games, like the new Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games on the 'Cube. Someone will vouch for the new stuff, anyway (way to mention Elite, Joe).

[portnoyd]

I won't list titles that don't stand a chance (BBBB comes to mind...), but here's my favorites in no particular order:

Legend of Zelda (NES)
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis)
Landstalker (Genesis)
Pilotwings 64 (N64)
Final Fantasy II (SNES)
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Super Metroid (SNES)
Little Ninja Brothers (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)

That's sufficient for now.

dave

[DDCecil]

(I decided not to list any imports)

Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES)
Final Fantasy 2 (IV) (SNES)
Time Gal (Sega CD)
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Rygar (NES)
Ys Book 1 and 2 (TG-CD)
Parasol Stars (TG-16)
Final Fight (Sega CD)
TMNT IV (SNES)
Final Fantasy 3 (SNES)

[Mayhem]

The Sentinel (C64)
Impossible Mission (C64)
Wizball (C64)
Zelda: LttP (SNES)
Super Mario 4/World (SNES)
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Zelda: OoT (N64)
Goldeneye (N64)
Metroid Prime (GC)
Advance Wars (GBA)

[jaydubnb]

Contra (NES)
Baseball Stars (NES)
Castlevania: SotN (PS1)
Metal Gear Solid (PS1)
Dracula X (PCE)
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Axelay (SNES)
SF2: Turbo (SNES)
Gunstar Heroes (Gen)
Samurai Shdown 2 (N*G)

[digitalpress]

Keep 'em coming! I'll compile a list in the morning.

To answer a few questions posed so far:

-YES, PC games are fine to use.

-YES, these can be your "favorite games". You aren't just ANYONE, you know. The fact that you're here says you're a bit hardcore and more "in the know" than the average gamer, even if you don't think so.

The list might look a little disjointed at first but once we have the giant list in place we can start making cases for why certain games "belong" there and others do not. These are issues that certain other lists don't seem to debate.

[ubersaurus]

Starflight(genesis)
Galactic Attack(saturn)
Mr. Driller(dreamcast)
turmoil(2600)
robotron 2084(7800)
street fighter 2 turbo(snes)
beamrider(intv)
attack of the timelord!(o2)
Zillion(sms)
Vib Ribbon(PSX)
I think that'll do for now ;p

Edit-changed a few things

[bargora]

OK, here's stuff that I haven't seen up yet:

Yar's Revenge (Atari 2600)
Star Raider (Atari 8-bit)
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit, also available for PC)
Scorched Earth (PC)
Mechwarrior (PC)
Colony Wars (PSX)
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC)

Stuff that others have posted that I would second includes:
Archon (C64)
Doom II (PC)
Adventure (Atari 2600)
Space Taxi (C64)
Advance Wars (GBA)
Warlords (Atari 2600)
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn)

Warlords and Radiant Silvergun are ports of arcade games, however, and I'm not sure whether that disqualifies them from the list. Other arcade ports I would include if permissible are:

R-Type (PSX)
Galactic Attack (Saturn)

[IntvGene]

Okay, I'm ready for seconds. I just want to make sure that some of these games get considered at least.

Rez (PS2)
Jet Set Radio
Paradroid (C64)
Populous (PC)
Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (C64)
M.U.L.E (C64)
River Raid
Dreadnaught Factor
Out of this world (PC / 3DO)
Wipeout
Star Control 2 (PC / 3DO)
One of the DDRs might get consideration, but don't ask me which one!

[TheRedEye]

1. Grim Fandango (Windows)
2. The Secret of Monkey Island (DOS)
3. LeChuck's Revenge: Monkey Island 2 (DOS)
4. Shenmue (Dreamcast)
5. River City Ransom (NES)
6. Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
7. Sonic the Hedgehog 3/Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis)
8. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)
9. Mr. Gimmick! (NES)
10. Space Quest IV (DOS)

[shai hulud]

in no order

1. Bubble Bobble (i think it plays and looks better for PSX actually)
2. Gunstar Heroes
3. Super Mario World
4. Zelda Link to the Past
5. Metal Slug 3
6. Samurai Shodown II
7. Final Fantasy III
8. Tetris Attack
9. NHL 94 (gen.)
10. Baseball Stars

[Sylentwulf]

I vomit at the thought of including PC games. That said:

Ultima Online
Everquest
Asherons Call 1
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Dragon Warrior 4
Tetris - Gameboy original
Super Metroid
Madden 2003 (Sports are so hard because the next years version is ALWAYS better)
Sims

[Kid Ice]

This was already attempted before, and luckily I still have the top 100 list I did for that, so I'll just relist the top 10 from that list, taking the arcade games out:

Goldeneye N64
SMB3 NES
Space Invaders 2600
Street Fighter 2 SNES
Wipeout XL PSX
Gunstar Heroes GENESIS
Colony Wars PSX
Jet Grind Radio DREAMCAST
SMB64 N64
SMB1 NES

Keep in mind that at the time, there was a list to choose from, so here are a few favorites that would have made the list otherwise:

Radiant Silvergun SATURN
Demon Attack 2600
Doom PC

Also keep in mind that I'm keeping out my favorite arcade games, even ones that have stellar home versions. So no Robotron, Tempest, R-Type, Metal Slug, Ms. Pac Man, Galaga, etc.

the kid

[anagrama]

Totally off the top of my head (and without arcade conversions):

Hunter (Amiga)
Nights (Saturn)
Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast)
Gunstar Heroes (Megadrive)
Mario Kart (SNES)
Tempest 2000 (Jag)
Yoshi's Island (SNES)
PSO (Dreamcast)
Tetris Attack (SNES)

[Griking]

I'm posting my votes before I read the other responses. I'm sure I'll miss a few though. In no particular order;

Adventure - Atari 2600
Planetfall - Apple II
Ultima IV - Apple II
Diablo II (w/ Expansion) - PC
Unreal Tournament - PC
Daggerfall - PC
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - Apple II

[Oobgarm]

Here are my top 10.

1. Contra (NES)
2. Shadowrun (SNES)
3. Gran Turismo 3 (PS2)
4. Secret of Mana (SNES)
5. Frequency (PS2)
6. Goldeneye 007 (N64)
7. Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
8. Pilotwings (SNES)
9. Street Fighter 2 (SNES)
10. Shadowgate (NES)

[AB Positive]

Yar's revenge (2600)
Adventure (2600)
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis)
Legend of Zelda (NES)
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo)
Samurai Shodown 2 (Neo Geo)
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga)
Grim Fandango (PC)
Dark Wizard (Sega CD)

[Drexel923]

Not sure which ones I like better...so in no particular order:

Mario 3
Final Fantasy 3
Secret of Mana
Chrono Trigger
Zelda ALttP
Zelda Oot
Super Metroid
Metal Gear Solid
Castlevania: SOTN
Suikoden 2

More to come later.

[digitalpress]

UPDATED!

I'll keep the important update notes in the first post of this thread, since things will certainly get lost in the middle - like here.

[anagrama]

Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Centipede (7800)
Double Dragon (Genesis)
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i)
Final Fight (Sega CD)
Galaga (7800)
House of the Dead, The (DC)
Mars Matrix (DC)
Mr. Driller (DC)
Ms Pac-Man (7800)
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn)
Parasol Stars (TG-16)
Point Blank seires (PSX)
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn, Import)
Robotron: 2084 (7800)
Soul Caliber (Dreamcast)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX)
Street Fighter II (SNES)
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO)
Virtua Fighter (series)


Arcade conversions are allowed then?
In that case, I'll add Rainbow Islands, Pang, Centipede, Qix and Super Streetfighter 2 Turbo to my list

Also Final Fantasy III/6 is a duplicate, as is Mario Kart/Super Mario Kart

[dreamcaster]

Stunt Race FX (SNES) is my favourite game of all time, so I hope it gets on the list!!!!

Other favourites:
Lylat Wars/StarFox 64 (N64)
Top Gear Rally (N64)
GoldenEye 007 (N64)
Mario Kart 64 (N64)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
Perfect Dark (N64)
Re-Volt (N64) - also appeared on PC/PSX/DC
Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64)
Tetris DX (GBC)
Driver (GBC)
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA)
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn)
Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec (PS2)
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Solstice (NES)
Dr. Mario (NES)
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast)
Soul Calibur (Dreamcast)
Top Gear 3000 (SNES)
Super Mario All-Stars (SNES)

There's bound to be more, following a later edit however!

[Chunky]

i can't think this morning

Tetris (GB)
Bubble Bobble (NES)
Legend of Zelda (NES)
SMB (NES)
SMB 2 (NES)
Adventure(2600)
Zelda Link to the Past (SNES)
Demon Attack (2600)
Dragster (2600)
Baseball Stars (NES)
RC Pro-Am (NES)
Metroid (NES)
Devils Crush (TG-16)

[ghsqb]

:o
I have to say, that with the amount of replies I've seen, I'm very surprised to see that I'm the only one who has Lunar: SSS for Sega CD on their list.
Am I overrating this one?

[IntvGene]

DP: Just a few edits on the list. Can everyone agree that the best version of Pitfall II is the 5200 one? I mean, that whole extra level... Jet Set Radio is listed under the Xbox. I know I nominated the DC version, but just HATE the name Jet Grind Radio. I didn't mean the Xbox version--that's Jet Set Radio Future. Not as an edit, but I laughed when you put Ultima IV as the Apple II version, nice to get some variety.

As for others:
Little Computer People (C64)
Slime World (Lynx)
Skool Daze (C64)
Return Fire (3DO)
Crystal Castles (2600)
Warlords (2600)
Fortune Builder (Coleco)
Missile Command (2600)
Civilization (PC)
Wasteland (C64)

[Drexel923]

Here's some more:

Marvel vs Capcom 2 (DC)
F-Zero (SNES)
Lunar 2: EB (Sega CD/PSX)

[digitalpress]

Thank ya partner!

I'm making more changes and updates now. I think with regards to "which system" we should leave it open to any system the game was produced for - People will remember Pitfall II for 2600 and ColecoVision and may not have ever played the 5200 or 8-bit version... and yet it should STILL qualify as a great game.

We're at 251 games.

[Drexel923]

You have Street Fight 2 Turbo on there twice. Also here's some game I think you can remove"

Street Fight 2...since we have turbo
Mario Party 4...the original is still the best IMO
Pilotwings 64...the original is better
Super Mario All Stars...should we have this plus two of the original games on the list
Mario Kart Series...pick one, I think the SNES one is the best.
Frequency...good game but not top 100

[Scoots]

Lose Ninja Gaiden 2.

Add Paperboy (Arcade), Marble Madness (Arcade/NES/Genesis) and Gauntlet (Arcade/NES).

[Tony Uniopolis]

In no particular order:

Baseball Stars (NES)
Turmoil (2600)
Half-Life (PC & Dreamcast)
Blood (PC)
Diablo II w/expansion (PC)
Spy Hunter (Colecovision)
Kaboom! (2600)
The Sims (PC & Gamecube)
San Francisco Rush 2049 (Dreamcast)
Mars Matrix (Dreamcast)

Just tried to pick the games that I have spent the most time with over the years.....sure I missed (quite) a few!

[Arcade Antics]

250? I propose the following games get the axe (first quick pass-through):

Arkanoid (NES) - It's good, but top 100? Not sure...
Banjo Kazooie (N64) - IMO, not Top 100 material
Deluxe Galaga (Amiga) - Good game, but IMO, not Top 100 material.
Driver (GBC) - IMO, not Top 100 material.
Galaga (7800) - Too slow, good, but not Top 100 good.
Goonies II, The (NES) - IMO, not Top 100 material.
Jordan vs Bird (800) Good game, but IMO, not Top 100 material.
Journey Escape (2600) Just. No. :)
Little Ninja Brothers (NES) - IMO, not Top 100 material.
Mario Party 4 (Gamecube) Not Top 100 material.
Ms Pac-Man (7800) I'd rather see a different port of this one here - NES, Genesis, etc.
Night Trap (Sega CD) - IMO, not Top 100 material. Good, not great.
Pole Position (2600) - IMO, good but not Top 100 material.
Robotron: 2084 (7800) - Robotron is the best. game. ever., but IMO this port is weak/slow.
Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast) - I like the game, but IMO, it's not Top 100 material.
Street Fighter II (SNES) - IMO SSFIITurbo is better, should keep one and drop the others for SNES.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV (SNES) - IMO not Top 100.
Test Drive II: the duel (C64, Amiga, others)
Tetris Attack (SNES) - IMO not Top 100.
Tetris DX (GBC) - IMO not Top 100.
Turmoil (2600) - Good game, but IMO not Top 100.

And a minor tweak to the list: House of the Dead, The (DC) - Should be HOTD2. :)

[Kroogah]

Hmm...looks like I'm a bit too late to add anything, so I'll offer what I think should be subtracted.

KEEP TETRIS ATTACK ON THE LIST! ^_^

Super SF2 TURBO never came out on the SNES...SF Alpha 3 and SF Collection should be the only Street Fighters on this list.

I think ya should remove these:

Diablo
Double Dragon (Genesis) (replace with NES version)
Dragster (2600)
Goonies II, The (NES)
Journey Escape (2600)
Landstalker (Genesis)
Little Ninja Brothers (NES)
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA)
Mario Party 4 (Gamecube)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo)
Night Trap (Sega CD)
Pilotwings (SNES)
Pilotwings 64 (N64)
Rush:2049 (N64)
Rygar (NES)
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) (Sonic CD is better)
Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast)
Star Tropics (NES)
Streets of Rage (Genesis) (2 was better)
Super Mario Bros. (NES) (if you're including Mario All Stars, leave this off the list)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) (ditto)
Tetris DX (GBC)
Time Gal (Sega CD)
UN Squadron (SNES)
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)
Zillion (SMS)

[anagrama]

250? I propose the following games get the axe (first quick pass-through):

Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast)


:bad-words:

[ManekiNeko]

Arcade Antics, you hardly explained why those games should be removed from the top 100 list. "In my opinion" isn't sufficient justification, and is your viewpoints are pretty subjective. I say let's put it to a vote once a preliminary list is compiled. It'll be much more fair that way.

JR

[Kid Fenris]

This won't be pretty, but I suggest that we bump off the following games. I'm not going to bother with explaining why these games should be dropped, since it's best if everyone just posts their lists, with the votes for each game being tallied from our suggestions.

APB (Lynx)
Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (C64)
Banjo Kazooie (N64)
Beamrider (INTV/5200)
Blades of Vengeance (GEN)
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX)
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others)
Colony Wars (PSX)
Deluxe Galaga (Amiga)
Diablo
Doom (PC)
Double Dragon (Genesis)
Dragster (2600)
Dr. Mario (NES)
Final Fight (Sega CD)
Goonies II, The (NES)
Immortal, The (Genesis)
Impossible Mission (C64)
Incredible Wizard, The (Bally Astrocade)
Jordan vs Bird (800)
Journey Escape (2600)
Little Ninja Brothers (NES)
Mars Matrix (DC)
Metal Slug (Neo-Geo)
Mario Kart 64 (N64)
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA)
Mario Party (N64)
Mr. Gimmick! (NES)
Night Trap (Sega CD)
Pang/Buster Bros. (PSX)
Pilotwings (SNES)
Pilotwings 64 (N64)
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64)
Pole Position (2600)
Parasol Stars (TG-16)
Perfect Dark (N64)
Raiden (Jaguar)
RC Pro-Am (NES)
Re-Volt (N64/PC/PSX/DC)
Shadowrun (SNES)
Shining Force (Genesis)
Skaterock (C64)
Skool Daze (C64)
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis)
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (Genesis)
Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast)
Star Tropics (NES)
StarFox 64 (N64)
Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Tetris DX (GBC)
Time Gal (Sega CD)
Top Gear 3000 (SNES)
Ultimate Wizard (C64)
UN Squadron (SNES)
Wipeout XL (PSX)

I also propose that we replace the following:

Contra (NES) (Replace this with the far superior Contra III: The Alien Wars)
Dark Wizard (Sega CD) (Dragon Force for the Saturn is similar, but much more enjoyable.)
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD) (Lunar 2: Eternal Blue is better)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) (Change this to the Saturn version)
Streets of Rage (Genesis) (Yashiro's right -SoR 2 is better)

Tetris Attack, Wonder Boy III, Metal Slug 3, Ninja Gaiden II, and Rygar should stay. And though it may be too late, I suggest that we add these:

Crystalis (NES)
MUSHA (Genesis)
R-Type (PSX)
Snatcher (Sega CD)
Terranigma (SNES, Euro Release)
Vagrant Story (PSX)

Edit: I have two questions.

1) Should we exclude games released within the past year or so? It would give us more space to work with. And if we do include recent stuff, we've got to get Metroid Fusion (GBA) on the list. Please.

2) Can we list a series in only one spot? If so, we could just group all of the Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, and Phantasy Star games under a single space for each franchise.

[Arcade Antics]

Arcade Antics, you hardly explained why those games should be removed from the top 100 list. "In my opinion" isn't sufficient justification, and is your viewpoints are pretty subjective. I say let's put it to a vote once a preliminary list is compiled. It'll be much more fair that way.

Exactly - it's not justification at all, just what I was proposing in lieu of the fact that we're already way over the mark. It's *already* to a vote - these are games I'm voting for to be removed, not games I'm saying should *definitely* be removed. :) The list is an evolving work in progress.

@anagrama: I LIKE Space Channel 5, I just don't think it's a Top 100 of All Time game, that's all. I know too many people who HATE it, but I'm a SC5 FAN. :)

[TheRedEye]

I'd omit these:


Advance Wars (GBA)
Arkanoid (NES)
Banjo Kazooie (N64)
Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64)
Doom (PC)
Doom II (PC)
(have these really stood the test of time?)
House of the Dead, The (DC)
Kid Icarus (NES)
King's Quest (PC)
(the first one? really??)
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color)
Little Ninja Brothers (NES)
Mario Party 4 (Gamecube)
Metal Slug (can we group these as a series?)
Mr. Gimmick! (NES)
(I think the game deserves to be here, but I doubt many will agree)
Night Trap (Sega CD)
(oh COME ON)
Parasol Stars (TG-16)
Pilotwings 64 (N64)
Pole Position (2600)
Pole Position II (7800)
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX)
Sonic (group as a series?)
Space Quest IV (DOS)
(a personal favorite, but I don't see this getting many votes)
Star Tropics (NES)
StarFox 64 (N64)
Streets of Rage (Genesis)
(better than part 2??)
Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV (SNES)

I consider almost all of these to be great games, but I don't know that they'd be top 100 of all time material.

[ubersaurus]

I say remove Metroid 1. I'm sorry, but for as innovative as it was for the time, it has not aged well, and cannot stand up to the other games in the series, or even similar contemporaries (like zillion). The whole thing where you started with only 30 points of health every time you put in a password was crummy, and quite frankly, Super Metroid did everything it did, and did it better.

Same story with Super Mario World. To me, it was just a weaker version of Mario 3. Sure, it looked prettier, but it played so similar, and yet had alot of the neat features of 3 gone.

And why is mario all stars on there? It's just a compilation. And if we already have most of the games in its lineup on the list, why bother?

[Achika]

Take off these:

Banjo Kazooie (N64)
Frequency (PS2)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo)
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo)
Perfect Dark (N64)
Pilotwings 64 (N64)
Super Mario All-Stars (SNES)
Super Mario Bros. (NES)
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube)
Yoshi's Island (SNES)

If Virtua Fighter is going to be grouped as a series, there are several others on here too that should be (Metal Slug, Mario Party, Mario Kart series, Doom, Diablo, Monkey Island, Sega Rally, Zelda, etc. --sure not ALL parts of the series are on this list, but close enough?)

Possible replacement of SS2 with SS3?

If SC5 comes off the list, I'll cry. :(

[Gunstarhero]

Don't hate me. These are the games I vote to be removed, nothing personal here.


Advance Wars (GBA)
Attack of the Timelord(O2)
Asherons Call (PC)
Banjo Kazooie (N64)
Blades of Vengeance (GEN)
Boulder Dash II (C64)
Civilization (PC)
Conkers Bad Game (N64)
Daggerfall (PC)
Dark Wizard (SCD)
Deluxe Galaga (amiga)
Diablo
Diablo II
Driver (GBC)
Dune II (PC)
Elite (C64)
Everquest (PC)
Fool's Errand, The (MAC)
Frequency (PS2)
Grim Fandango (PC)
Half-Life (PC)
Hunter (amiga)
Jordan vs. Bird(800)
Journey Escape (2600)
Kings Quest (PC)
Little Computer People (C64)
Madden 2003(sports franchises will be outdated from this list very soon so why bother?)
Mario Kart:Super Circuit (GBA)
Mechwarrior (PC)
Mario Party 4 (GC)
Mr. Gimmick (NES)
Ms.Pac-Man (7800) theres a better version, like PSX Namco Museum.
NHL 94 (GEN)
Out of this World (PC)
Paradroid (C64)
Phantasy Star 4(GEN)
Pilotwings 64(N64)
Pole Position (2600)
Raiden (Jaguar) --replace with Raiden Project for PSX
Re-Volt
Secret of Monkey Island (PC)
Sentinel (C64)
Sim City 2000 (PC)
Space Channel 5(DC)
Star Control(PC)
Super Mario All Stars(SNES)--either make this represent all 3 NES marios, or delete it.
Top Gear Rally (N64)
Top Gear 3000 (SNES)
Ultima Online (PC)
Unreal (Xbox)
Unreal Tourn. (PC)

[ubersaurus]

A few further rants...

First, if you want mario all stars, why not take off mario 1, mario 3, and mario world, and list the all stars+world compilation? Saves room.

2nd, sonic 3 and sonic & knuckles, on their own were kinda weak. Together, though, they rocked. So I say remove em both and replace with their counterpart, Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Also Take out Sonic 1 for Sonic 2-2 was FAR superior.

3rd, why tetris attack and Pokemon Puzzle League? They're the same game. One or the other, says I. Ditto with Tetris and Tetris DX.

4th, the original SF2 was pretty weak. I say take it off, as well as one of the two between SF2 Turbo and Super Turbo. Both of those are great, but we don't need em both on there. Also, ST didn't come out on SNES-it was on 3do & dreamcast, and the SF collection for saturn/PSX.

Ditto with removing Metal Slug X and 3...1 was more fun, and they all play damn near the same anyhow. I can't agree with the taking of Perfect Dark though...that was a damn good FPS. I also gotta defend SC5. It was a fun game, the presentation was great, the music was great, and it was hard.

[shai hulud]

i would cry the least if these games were killed (i am only nominating games i have played for removal)

Adventure
Advance Wars
Archon
Arkanoid (the snes version was better anyway)
Asherons Call
Axelay (there were better snes shooters)
Banjo Kazooie
Conkers
Daggerfall
Dark Wizard
Dragster
Driver
Final Fight
Goonies II
GTA Vice City
Immortal
Intelligent Cube
Little Ninja Bros.
Metal Slug X
Night Trap
Perfect Dark
Pokemon Puzzle ( i hate pokemon, love tetris KEEP TETRIS ATTACK)
Raiden
Rush 2049
Star Fox 64
Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3 (keep super mario all stars)
Super Mario 64
Top Gear Rally
Valkyrie Profile

[IntvGene]

Yeesh!

Seeing people with 70 titles to remove from the list is pretty scary. I mean, I am not going to complain about single titles (yet :)), but let's make sure that you've at least played a title that you are removing. Just because you don't like it, or never heard of it, it doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't stay.

The series issue does need addresssing. I am kinda ambivalent. On one hand, I agree, but on the other I think that some of the series have changed quite a bit, and it's a bit of a cop out to say the best game of all time is ________ Series.

I would also like to see what we are defining as a Top 100 game. What are we looking for originality, ahead of its time, fun, interesting...? I don't think we will get a very good list if it is just my favorite games. A collection of favorite games does not make a good Top 100 list.

[Gunstarhero]

I wouldn't get too upset over people(like me) who have put down a ton of games on their remove lists. I think the important thing first off is to get this monstrosity of a list(thanks to PC games, blechh) down to a reasonable amount of games, to where we can begin to argue coherently the finer points. We certainly can't argue points on what could become a 500 game rough draft, that would be a mess. I say everyone put down every game they feel doesn't belong on this list, it won't hurt anything. Just because it gets voted by someone to be removed doesn't mean it will happen. But we must face that since the list is to be 100 games in the end, and its already up to 250 games, the MAJORITY of the games are going to get zapped.

This should be interesting once a smaller list is compiled and DP begins to ask for real reasons for games to stay on the list.

[AB Positive]

Nothing personal here, but here is what I'd remove:

Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (C64)
APB (Lynx)
Archon (C64/Atari 8-bit)
Arkanoid (NES)
Asheron's Call (PC)
Banjo Kazooie (N64)
Beamrider (INTV/5200)
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX)
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others)
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) (Or, replace with the more superior Castlevania II)
Civilization (PC/PSX)
Colony Wars (PSX)
Daggerfall (PC)
Demon Attack (2600)
Diablo
Diablo II w/ Expansion (PC) (while i love both, I don't see them as top 100 material)
Doom II (PC)
Dr. Mario (NES)
Dragster (2600)
Driver (GBC)
Dune II (PC)
Elite (C64)
EverQuest (PC)
Final Fantasy II (SNES) (3/6 and 7 represent the series well. if you want a third FF game in there, use the original)
Fool's Errand, The (Mac)
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision)
Frequency (PS2)
Gran Turismo 3 (PS2)
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) (ok, this is personal. I hate hate HATE the GTA series. couldn't stand playing more than twenty minutes of it)
Jordan vs Bird (800)
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64)
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) (the first two games represent the series better)
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD) (I agree to replace this with Eternal Blue)
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox)
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA)
Mario Party (N64)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo)
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo)
Night Trap (Sega CD)
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64)
Rush:2049 (N64)
Skaterock (C64)
Skool Daze (C64)
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis)
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (Genesis)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX)
Street Fighter II (SNES)
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) (Super Street Fighter 2, arguably the best home port ever is already on the list)
Super Mario All-Stars (SNES)
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube)
Super Mario World 64 (N64)
Tetris DX (GBC)
Time Gal (Sega CD)
Top Gear 3000 (SNES)
Top Gear Rally (N64)
Turmoil (2600)
Ultima Online (PC)
Unreal (Xbox)
Unreal Tournament (PC)



I might have culled -too- much, but these games are either quite bad in my opinion, represented by a better game in the series, or just not quite good enough to make the list.


And, if I can argue one game that made the lists of other people, KEEP LANDSTALKER!!! It was a great great game, even if it's sequel was awful on the Dreamcast.

-AG

[TheRedEye]

Don't hate me. These are the games I vote to be removed, nothing personal here.


Grim Fandango (PC)
Secret of Monkey Island (PC)


I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with these games, followed by an explanation of why 100 games are better than them. I know it's "nothing personal," but not including Grim Fandango, what I consider the Citizen Kane of video games, on a TOP ONE HUNDRED list makes absolutely no sense to me. The artistry of that game has yet to be even remotely touched...everything about it was a labor of love done beautifully.

And Achika: I disagree with grouping Monkey Island. Ron Gilbert did an amazing, personal job with the first two games. The second two were done by outside sources years later who had nothing to do with the original games, and it shows. They're terrible. I'd approve grouping the first two, as they're very similar and were only about a year apart, but I will NOT cast my vote for 3 or 4.

[Gunstarhero]

TheRedEye wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with these games, followed by an explanation of why 100 games are better than them. I know it's "nothing personal," but not including Grim Fandango, what I consider the Citizen Kane of video games, on a TOP ONE HUNDRED list makes absolutely no sense to me. The artistry of that game has yet to be even remotely touched...everything about it was a labor of love done beautifully.


Go easy man, I'm glad its your favorite. But you said it, a TOP ONE HUNDRED list. 100 games isn't very much, I could name 200 Console games I would rather see on this list than any PC game mentioned here, except for maybe Doom. Its a top 100 EVER list, and I personally don't want many PC games on here. That doesn't mean they won't be here, I'm just one person. I'll admit, I've never played Grim Fandango, but I'm not required to say why it should go, I think the more important factor in the coming days will be for people like you, who love the game, to make the case on why it should absolutely STAY on the list. I'm going to try my best to keep some of my selections on this list, but I'm not going to demand explanations from people who want them gone, I'll just do my best to prove their better than X game. If they stay, then OK, if not, Oh well. People have their own reasons for wanting games gone, whatever that reason is doesn't matter, there is always method to the madness :-D

[portnoyd]

I must say I'm sad to see Little Ninja Bros Pilotwings 64 get the axe by everybody. Oh well.

But I will fight my damn head off to keep Landstalker on that list. It's the Genesis Zelda goddamnit.

Secret of Monkey Island has to be a contender, at the very least.

I'd suggest games to axe, but I think I'll play devil's advocate for games to keep that have been mentioned for the boot.

You guys should really try Mr Gimmick for the NES before passing on it. Seriously.

Dr. Mario. Superior puzzle game. Keep this instead of Pokemon Puzzle League.

I'd say have Mario Kart 64 on the list instead of Mario Kart SNES. IMO, 4 player made the game better.

Aaaand I'd leave on Daggerfall. Personal preference. Finally, lump Madden as a series and keep it.

dave

[Achika]

I'd approve grouping the first two, as they're very similar and were only about a year apart

I can agree with that, since they were re-released on the same CD a few years ago. (3 was also in the pack, but on a different CD! HA!)

[portnoyd]

I'd approve grouping the first two, as they're very similar and were only about a year apart

I can agree with that, since they were re-released on the same CD a few years ago. (3 was also in the pack, but on a different CD! HA!)

And I enjoyed Monkey Island #3. Not as much as 1 or 2, but it wasn't THAT bad.

dave

[scooterb23]

Journey Escape (2600) Just. No.

Somehow, I don't think that my favorite 2600 game of all time will make the final top 100 :( ;)

[digdug]

If I can give a suggestion if I may, Why not ask for everyones top 100 and compile a list of who has what and then determine each games rank based on how many times they have been voted upon? Instead of asking for which games people would axe. Give a time period for people to have there votes in by and then post the results with a tally of how many votes each game received? Including the ones that do not make the top 100, and how many votes they each received?


Just a suggestion. To make the process easier.

Dig Dug

[kevates]

Please add these to the list:

Poy Poy (PS1)
Warlords (2600)
Guitar Freaks (PS1-- Import)
Gauntlet Legends (N64)
You Don't Know Jack (PS1 or PC)
H.E.R.O. (2600)
Crazy Taxi 2 (Dreamcast)
Jumpman (C64)
Tetris (Gameboy)
Frogger (Genesis)

[Gunstarhero]

If I can give a suggestion if I may, Why not ask for everyones top 100 and compile a list of who has what and then determine each games rank based on how many times they have been voted upon? Instead of asking for which games people would axe. Give a time period for people to have there votes in by and then post the results with a tally of how many votes each game received? Including the ones that do not make the top 100, and how many votes they each received?


Just a suggestion. To make the process easier.

Dig Dug

That is a damn fine idea. I second this.

[Charlie]

Sigh... I have no life.

Advance Wars (GBA) KEEP
Adventure (2600) DROP
Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (C64) DROP
APB (Lynx) KEEP
Archon (C64/Atari 8-bit) *INCLUDE NES VERSION, KEEP
Arkanoid (NES) DROP
Asheron's Call (PC) DROP
Attack of the Timelord! (O2) EH... NETURAL ON THIS ONE
Axelay (SNES) DROP
Banjo Kazooie (N64) DROP... THIS GAME HAS NOT AGED WELL
Bard's Tale, The (C64) KEEP
Baseball Stars (NES) KEEP... OVER A DECADE LATER AND IT'S STILL THE BEST BASEBALL GAME EVER
Beamrider (INTV/5200) DROP
Blades of Vengeance (GEN) DROP
Blazing Lazers (TG-16) KEEP
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) DROP... SATURN BOMBERMAN OR BOMBERMAN 64 ARCADE EDITION (JAPAN ONLY) IS THE SUPERIOR BOMBERMAN GAME
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16) KEEP
Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64) DROP
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX) KEEP
Burgertime (Intellivision) KEEP
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others) DROP
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) DROP, REPLACE WITH SIMON'S QUEST
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX) KEEP, PLUS ADD CIRCLE OF THE MOON
Centipede (7800) DROP
Chrono Trigger (SNES) KEEP
Civilization (PC/PSX) DROP
Colony Wars (PSX) DROP
Combat (2600) KEEP
Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64) DROP
Contra (NES) KEEP
Crystal Castles (2600) KEEP
Daggerfall (PC) DROP
Dark Wizard (Sega CD) DROP
Deluxe Galaga (Amiga) DROP
Demon Attack (2600) DROP
Devil's Crush (TG-16) KEEP
Diablo KEEP, BUT MERGE IT WITH DIABLO 2
Diablo II w/ Expansion (PC)
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy) KEEP. BEST HAND HELD ACTION GAME EVER
Doom (PC) KEEP, MERGE WITH DOOM 2
Doom II (PC)
Double Dragon (Genesis) DROP
Dr. Mario (NES) DROP... IF DR. MARIO IS TO BE ON THE LIST, THEN MAKE IT DR. MARIO 64
Dracula X (PCE Duo) KEEP
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) DROP... DRAGON WARRIOR 2 WAS BETTER
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) DROP. INNOVATIVE OR NOT, DRAGON'S LAIR WAS NOT A GOOD GAME AT ALL
Dragonstomper (2600) DROP
Dragster (2600) DROP
Dreadnaught Factor (Intellivision,/5200) DROP
Driver (GBC) DROP
Dune II (PC) DROP
Elite (C64) KEEP
EverQuest (PC) DROP
Final Fantasy II (SNES) KEEP
Final Fantasy III (SNES) KEEP
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) DROP
Final Fight (Sega CD) DROP... I FIND FINAL FIGHT TO BE A VERY SO WHAT BRAWLER
Fool's Errand, The (Mac) NEVER PLAYED IT
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) DROP
Frequency (PS2) DROP
Galactic Attack (Saturn) DROP
Galaga (7800) DROP... NES VERSION WAS BETTER
Goldeneye 007 (N64) KEEP
Goonies II, The (NES) KEEP
Gran Turismo (PSX) DROP
Gran Turismo 3 (PS2) KEEP
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) KEEP
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) KEEP
Grim Fandango (PC) LOL, KEEP
Guardian Heroes (Saturn) DROP
Gunstar Heroes(Genesis) KEEP
H.E.R.O. (2600) DROP
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) EH... NEVER CARED FOR IT. DROP
Halo (Xbox) KEEP
House of the Dead, The (DC) DROP... AND SHOULDN'T THIS BE HOTD 2?
Hunter (Amiga) DROP
Immortal, The (Genesis) DROP
Impossible Mission (C64) DROP
Incredible Wizard, The (Bally Astrocade) DROP
Intelligent Qube (PS1) DROP
Jet Grind Radio (DC) DROP
Jordan vs Bird (800) DROP
Journey Escape (2600) KEEP
Kaboom! (2600) KEEP
Kid Icarus (NES) DROP... EASILY ONE OF THE MOST OVERRATED GAMES EVER.
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) KEEP
King's Quest (PC) KEEP
Landstalker (Genesis) KEEP
LeChuck's Revenge: Monkey Island 2 (DOS) DROP
Legend of Zelda, The (NES) KEEP
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES) KEEP
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) DROP
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) KEEP
Lemmings (Amiga, others) DROP
Little Computer People (C64) DROP
Little Ninja Brothers (NES) KEEP... EXTREMELY FUCKED UP GAME
Lode Runner (C64, Apple II, others) DROP
Lords of Thunder (Duo) KEEP
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD) KEEP
M.U.L.E (C64) KEEP
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) KEEP
Mario Kart 64 (N64) DROP... HASN'T AGED WELL AT ALL
Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA) EH... DROP
Mario Party (N64) DROP... HASN'T AGED WELL AT ALL. SOME GAMES CAUSE HOLES IN YOUR FLESH.
Mario Party 4 (Gamecube) KEEP
Mars Matrix (DC) KEEP... VASTLY UNDERRATED TITLE
Mechwarrior (PC) KEEP
Mega Man 2 (NES) KEEP
Metal Gear Solid (PSX) KEEP... ADD METAL GEAR SOLID FOR THE GBC TOO. EXCELLENT GAME
Metal Slug (Neo-Geo) KEEP
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo) KEEP
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo) KEEP
Metroid (NES) EVERYONE ELSE WOULD SAY KEEP, I SAY IT SUCKED SINCE IT CAME ALONG. DROP
Metroid Prime (GC) KEEP
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)... BIZARE GAME... CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S ON HERE, BUT KEEP
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES) KEEP
Military Madness (TG-16) KEEP
Miner 2049'er (800) DROP
Mr. Driller (DC) DROP
Mr. Gimmick! (NES) WHAT THE FUCK?
Ms Pac-Man (7800) SOME VERSION OF MS. PAC MAN NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHICH ONE.
NHL 94 (GEN) DROP... I LIKE THE ORIGINAL NES ICE HOCKEY BETTER
Night Stalker (Intellivision) KEEP
Night Trap (Sega CD) DROP... SERIOUSLY, WHAT? THE? FUCK?
Nights (Saturn) KEEP
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn) DROP
Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES) DROP... PUT IN NINJA GAIDEN 1 INSTEAD
Out of This World (PC / 3DO) DROP
Pang/Buster Bros. (PSX) DROP
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) KEEP
Paradroid (C64) DROP
Parasol Stars (TG-16) KEEP
Perfect Dark (N64) KEEP
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis) DROP...
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast) KEEP
Pilotwings (SNES) DROP
Pilotwings 64 (N64) DROP... LIKE EVERY OTHER 3-D N64 GAME, IT HASN'T AGED WELL. COMPAIRED TO MODERN GAMES, IT FEELS LIKE IT RUNS AT 2 FRAMES A SECOND
Pinball Dreams (Amiga) DROP
Pirates! (C64) KEEP
Pitfall II (5200) KEEP
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) DROP
Point Blank seires (PSX) KEEP
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64) KEEP
Pole Position (2600) DROP
Pole Position II (7800) DROP
Populous (PC) KEEP
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others) DROP
Qix (5200) KEEP... ADD NES VERSION
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn, Import) KEEP
Raiden (Jaguar) DROP
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX) DROP
RC Pro-Am (NES) DROP
Return Fire (3DO/PSX) DROP
Re-Volt (N64/PC/PSX/DC) DROP
Rez (PS2) DROP
River City Ransom (NES) DROP
River Raid (2600) DROP
Robotron: 2084 (7800) KEEP
Rush:2049 (N64) DROP... REPLACE WITH DC VERSION
Rygar (NES) KEEP
Samurai Shodown 2 (Neo Geo) KEEP
Saturn Bomberman (Saturn) KEEP
Scorched Earth (PC) DROP
Secret of Mana (SNES) KEEP
Secret of Monkey Island, The (PC) DROP
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) DROP
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) DROP
Sentinel, The (C64) KEEP
Shadowgate (NES) DROP
Shadowrun (SNES) DROP
Shenmue (Dreamcast) OH FUCK YEAH DROP
Shining Force (Genesis) DROP... SHINNING FORCE 3 WAS BETTER, IF INCOMPLETE
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) DROP
Sim City 2000 (PC) DROP
Skaterock (C64) DROP
Skool Daze (C64) DROP
Slime World (Lynx) DROP
Solstice (NES) DROP
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis) DROP
Sonic CD (Sega CD) KEEP
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) DROP
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (Genesis) DROP
Soul Calibur(DC) KEEP
Space Channel 5 (Dreamcast) DROP... A 30 MINUTE GLORIFIED MUSIC VIDEO ISN'T A GOOD GAME
Space Invaders (2600) KEEP
Space Quest IV (DOS) DROP
Space Taxi (C64) DROP
Star Control 2 (PC / 3DO) DROP
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit, also available for PC) DROP
Star Raiders (Atari 8-bit) DROP
Star Tropics (NES) KEEP OR I TRACK YOU DOWN AND TAR & FEATHER YOU
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga) DROP
StarFox 64 (N64) KEEP
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) DROP... REPLACE WITH ONE OF THE DC VERSIONS OF STREET FIGHTER
Street Fighter II (SNES) DROP... STREET FIGHTER 2 TURBO IS GOOD ENOUGH
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) KEEP
Streets of Rage (Genesis) KEEP
Suikoden II (PSX) DROP
Super Bomberman 2 (SNES) KEEP
Super Castlevania IV (SNES) KEEP
Super Mario All-Stars (SNES) KEEP
Super Mario Bros. (NES) DROP... MARIO ALL-STARS IS GOOD ENOUGH
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) DROP... SEE ABOVE
Super Mario Kart (SNES) KEEP
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) KEEP
Super Mario World (SNES) KEEP
Super Mario World 64 (N64) DROP... HASN'T AGED WELL. MARIO SUNSHINE IS BETTER
Super Metroid (SNES) KEEP
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) DROP... SUPER MONKEY BALL GAMES ARE ONLY GOOD IN SMALL DOSES
Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) DROP... TOO EASY
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN) KEEP
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES) DROP... STREET FIGHTER 2 TURBO IS BETTER
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV (SNES) DROP
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar) KEEP
Test Drive II: the duel (C64, Amiga, others) DROP
Tetris (Game Boy) DROP... TETRIS DX IS BETTER
Tetris Attack (SNES) DROP... POKEMON PUZZLE LEAGUE ON THE N64 IS FAR SUPERIOR DUE TO LACK OF SLOWDOWN
Tetris DX (GBC) KEEP... BEST VERSION OF TETRIS EVER MADE
Time Gal (Sega CD) DROP
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga) DROP
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) DROP
Tony Hawk Pro Skater (series) KEEP
Top Gear 3000 (SNES) DROP
Top Gear Rally (N64) DROP
Turmoil (2600) DROP
Twisted Metal 2 (PSX) DROP
Ultima IV (Apple II/C64/PC) DROP
Ultima Online (PC) DROP
Ultimate Wizard (C64) DROP
UN Squadron (SNES) DROP... DULL GAME, CAN'T BELIEVE IT WAS MENTIONED
Unreal (Xbox) DROP
Unreal Tournament (PC) DROP
Utopia (Intellivision) KEEP
Valkyrie Profile (PSX) DROP
Venture (ColecoVision) KEEP
Vib Ribbon (PSX) DROP
Virtua Fighter (series) DROP
Warcraft 2 (PC) DROP
Warlords (2600) EH... DROP. IT'S REALLY ONLY GOOD ON THE ARCADE.
Wasteland (C64) DROP
Wipeout (PSX) DROP
Wipeout XL (PSX) DROP
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - Apple II DROP
Wizball (C64) DROP
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS) KEEP
Xenogears (PSX) DROP
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC) DROP
Yar's Revenge (2600) DROP
Yoshi's Island (SNES) KEEP
Ys Book 1 and 2 (TG-CD) DROP
Zillion (SMS) DROP

Couple good games that didn't make the list: Nutopia for the TG16, Kirby's Dream Course for the SNES, Roller Coaster Tycoon for the PC, Super Mario RPG for the SNES, and Paper Mario for the N64.

[Charlie]

To clarify a few things, I think the list should be about the top 100 games, as in the best made and most fun. That's why Pokemon Puzzle League should be on the list instead of Tetris Attack. Tetris Attack was good for it's time, but when things start to go wild, slow down kicks and it deadins the pace. Pokemon Puzzle doesn't have that slowdown (or not as bad at least). If you think it should be killed simply because it has 'pokemon' in the title, you're not a true gamer IMO.

That's pretty much my thoughts on every game that has multiple entrees in it's series. The superior game should stay. Dr. Mario for the NES was ok... Dr. Mario 64 on the N64 is far superior. 90% of SF fans agree that Street Fighter 2 Turbo is better then any version of Super Street Fighter. When the time comes to make cuts, keep the best verison of each game and put aside your biases.

Oh well, at least most people haven't said Star Tropics should be cut.

[anagrama]

Horses for courses, I suppose.

[digitalpress]

If I can give a suggestion if I may, Why not ask for everyones top 100 and compile a list of who has what and then determine each games rank based on how many times they have been voted upon? Instead of asking for which games people would axe. Give a time period for people to have there votes in by and then post the results with a tally of how many votes each game received? Including the ones that do not make the top 100, and how many votes they each received?


Just a suggestion. To make the process easier.

Dig Dug

That is a damn fine idea. I second this.

We tried that already!

Captain Yashiro was compiling lists for a MONTH but we couldn't get enough people to get involved. Not everyone has the time - or knowledge - to compile their own top 100 list.

This may take some time and it may be painful, but it will be worth it. We'll have a great list when we're done, and EVERYONE will get to particpate.

[digdug]

Was unaware of the previous list, I apologize. I am compiling my list of my favorite 100 now, will have it by Sunday night. I have to think hard not to let a game I loved be forgotten.


Again I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.


Dig Dug

[IntvGene]

If anyone wants to see what kind of list pure voting will give you:

http://uvl.arteh.com/voteresults.asp

As I write, Rallisport Challenge for Xbox was #1.

People are already trying to axe some real classics. Grim Fandago, Paradroid, Adventure, Impossible Mission, etc. should ALL be there. I think that a game needs to be pretty unique to be on this list. It shouldn't be a list of every Super Mario clone and SNES RPG out there. Unless they did something change the RPG genre, it probably shouldn't be there. But, Adventure is pretty damn close to being the father of modern action / adventure games.

Taking it to movies, the AFI produced a list of top 100, Citizen Kane was on that list. It was done by competent reviewers. Now, every year or so, they ask the public what is the best movie.. Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, etc. I think we should be trying to make a list like AFI, not like IMDB (http://us.imdb.com/top_250_films)

[Griking]

If I can give a suggestion if I may, Why not ask for everyones top 100 and compile a list of who has what and then determine each games rank based on how many times they have been voted upon? Instead of asking for which games people would axe. Give a time period for people to have there votes in by and then post the results with a tally of how many votes each game received? Including the ones that do not make the top 100, and how many votes they each received?

Great idea but I think it would take until 2005 to document so many top 100 lists.

[bargora]

Add: Food Fight (Atari 7800)

[digitalpress]

Have you folks read the RED area in the initial post?

What do you think? I think if a game gets five "drop its" from this forum we should remove it from the list. We have a lot of games to drop!

[Arcade Antics]

Have you folks read the RED area in the initial post?

What do you think? I think if a game gets five "drop its" from this forum we should remove it from the list. We have a lot of games to drop!

You've got my vote. Might as well try it unless it becomes ineffective.

[Nature Boy]

I've been away so I'm going to post my top 10 first anyway:

LOZ: LTTP, Tetris, Civ, M.U.L.E., LOZ: OOT, Halo, River Raid, Ms. Pac-Man, Ico, GTA 3

Now that I've got that out of the way...

PRO PC Inclusion
I know people are against including PC games, and I'm not a PC gamer by any means, but I'd be very upset if we left them off. The Civilization games get as much or more replaying time than anything else on my top 10 list - so leaving them off makes no sense IMO. I'm sure others feel as passionately about other PC games.

The Problem With Series
I think, in order to avoid being overrun with games all sharing the same title (Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Legend of Zelda, Civilization, etc.) we should combine games where possible. I know this will tick off some people, but it's doable. If a game stands out on it's own, list it (like Grand Theft Auto 3 say, since I don't believe the previous 2 GTA games deserve to be top 100 material). If you think Final Fantasy VI and VII are the bomb but want to include the rest in a third group that would work too. And I'd also think that maybe splitting games into 2D vs 3D might work (for instance I think the 2D Sonic games are much better than the 3D Sonic games, so I could see listing them apart to let 2D Sonic Shine)

Versions
Once we've got our top 100 (or maybe a bit sooner) I think we should debate versioning. I have no problems listing the 2600 along with the 7800 with regards to Ms. Pac-Man, but I do have a problem listing Civilization under anything but the PC. They're poor ports at best and on their own aren't top 100 material.

I think I've babbled enough (for now).

[Scoots]

Yeah, five votes off sounds good. With that in mind, I'd like to nominate the following games for removal from the list:

*Rygar
*Ninja Gaiden

And suggest adding:

* Marble Madness
*Gauntlet
*A Boy and His Blob.

[Arcade Antics]

And suggest adding:

* Marble Madness
*Gauntlet
*A Boy and His Blob.

For which system? :)


I propose that this list begin with "home games". So this can include computer games, handheld games, and console games. Not arcade games. That's for another list on another day.

[IntvGene]

Let's give it a shot. Sorry about missing the first page but it's tough to tell when you've updated it. I finally noticed KOF '98 on the list and it's good to see that someone got something from Neo-Geo in there.

Here are my votes AGAINST:

Advance Wars (GBA)
Dr. Mario (NES)
Galactic Attack (Saturn)
Metroid Prime (GC)
Ninja Gaiden II (NES)
Revolt (DC/PS2)
Rush: 2049 (DC / N64)
Shadowgate (NES)
Shadowrun (SNES)
Time Gal (Sega CD)
Top Gear Rally (N64)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX)
Xenogears (PSX)
Yoshi's Island (SNES)

[Drexel923]

If we're doing five vote offs at a time, here's mine:
Goonies 2 (nes)
Drive (GBC)
Jordan vs Bird (800)
Mario Party 4 (GCN)
Tetris DX (GBC)

[ManekiNeko]

(stealthfully sneaks past Charlie and puts Nightwarriors back on the top 100 list)

JR

[Scoots]

* Marble Madness
*Gauntlet
*A Boy and His Blob.


For which system? 2003_smile.gif

digitalpress wrote:
I propose that this list begin with "home games". So this can include computer games, handheld games, and console games. Not arcade games. That's for another list on another day.

Marble Madness (NES/Genesis)
Gauntlet (NES)
A Boy and His Blob (NES)

Better?

[TheRedEye]

TheRedEye wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with these games, followed by an explanation of why 100 games are better than them. I know it's "nothing personal," but not including Grim Fandango, what I consider the Citizen Kane of video games, on a TOP ONE HUNDRED list makes absolutely no sense to me. The artistry of that game has yet to be even remotely touched...everything about it was a labor of love done beautifully.


I'll admit, I've never played Grim Fandango blah blah blah I said other things too

Say no more, I'm just using you as an example. People, PLEASE do not vote to axe games you haven't played. With the exception of Advance Wars, which I've only SEEN played, I've personally sat down with every game on my axe list. If you're voting to nix a game based purely on what goddam hardware it's running on, your opinions shouldn't be valid at all.

Nothing personal.

[Keir]

Jumpman (C64)
Thank you!!!! This game simply needs to be on the top 100 list.

Here is a list of games I think should be removed. I see a lot more that I’m shocked would be on a top 100 list, but have not played them so I will withhold any comments.

Alternate Reality: The Dungeon (C64): OK, I actually enjoyed this game, but it doesn’t have anything that makes you want to keep playing.
Archon (C64/Atari 8-bit/NES): Maybe I just never “got” this game, but honestly I’d rather play chess.
Beamrider (INTV/5200): Uh, no reason really. Just not into it.
Combat (2600): Yeah, it’s Combat and it’s fun but as far as retro multiplayer competitive action goes you can’t beat Warlords and that’s already on the list.
Contra (NES): I agree with whoever said that there should only be one Contra on this list (Contra III)
Crystal Castles (2600): Sure the arcade game is great, and this is an impressive conversion of it for the Atari, but I don’t think that qualifies it for greatness.
Diablo: I just don’t like this game and I’ll be damned if I’ll let 2 versions of it on the top 10 list!
Doom (PC): ditto
Dr. Mario (NES): Blah. There are much better puzzle games out there.
Dragster (2600): Maybe if I figured out how to actually play, I would like it, but even then a game lasts less than 10 seconds.
Goonies II, The (NES): People like this game?
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2): While this may be the most popular game right now, it's really not a good game.
H.E.R.O. (2600): This always causes a debate but I really think this should be replaced with one of the superior versions (5200, C64, ColecoVision)
Journey Escape (2600): I’m sorry scooter. I love this game too but I really can’t justify putting it on a top 100 list.
Metroid (NES): I have never understood the appeal of this game. To me, it’s just another platformer (and there are too many platformers on this list already).
Pole Position (2600): First, there is no reason for this when Pole Position II is on the list. Second, I would much rather see Epyx’ Pitstop on here.
River Raid (2600): You know what? This game just isn’t that good.
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis): Too many Sonic games on this list! The first one is great, but was improved on in Sonic 3.
Space Invaders (2600): While there has to be some form of Space Invaders on this list is this really the best? I prefer TI Invaders myself.
Super Mario Bros. (NES): See Sonic the Hedgehog.
Turmoil (2600): Really? Turmoil? I don’t see it.
Wipeout (PSX): I thought this was the best racing game ever when it came out. I guess it didn’t age well. Maybe Wipeout XL (also on this list) is better?
Yoshi's Island (SNES) I hate this game! “Waah! Waah!” Shut up you stupid kid!

I think that’s enough for now. I’ll submit some games I’d like to see added later.

I like the 5 strikes you’re out idea, though I think that there should be a “last call” for people to defend a game before it gets the final axe. Also, I see a problem where someone might nominate a game that no one else has played and it stays to the end because no one will speak out against it.

[Kid Fenris]

Say no more, I'm just using you as an example. People, PLEASE do not vote to axe games you haven't played. With the exception of Advance Wars, which I've only SEEN played, I've personally sat down with every game on my axe list. If you're voting to nix a game based purely on what goddam hardware it's running on, your opinions shouldn't be valid at all.

Nothing personal.

While this is a fine sentiment, it creates the problem of obscure games having an advantage over the better-known games on the list. If we're only allowed to vote against games that we've played, then titles that few people have ever touched will be more likely to remain on the list by default, while games that are perhaps more deserving of inclusion will be removed only because they're more popular and thus, more inclined to generate dislike.

I'd prefer for people to observe the don't-knock-it-til-you-play-it rule, since it favors my precious Valkyrie Profile, but let's face it: it's not going to happen.

And if we start assuming someone's opinion to be more valid than someone else's, we're not going to get anywhere. I think DP's idea of taking votes, with each poster's say being equally important, is a suitable method.

Of course, it might go faster if someone (DP, perhaps) just trimmed the list down to 100 games and left us to argue over what should go back in. That's the way we usually handle these lists, and it seems to work pretty well.

[bargora]

Maybe people should indicate which games they HAVEN'T played (have fun tabulating, guys), so that their invalid opinions can be rightfully disregarded.

Plus, this would reveal the fact that the only reason Star Fleet I is still on the list is that nobody but me has ever savored the Klingon, er, Krellan-crushing space combat of SF I.

I wish I could put up a top 100 list, but up until the last year or so, I have tended to play fewer games more intensely. If I listed every console and PC game I ever played enough to form a valid opinion about, I'd probably have more than 100, but I suspect that in listing my favorite 100 I'd be reaching further down into the barrel than a "top 100" list deserves.

Also, The Red Eye is a fool for dissing Advance Wars based on watching someone else playing it. No offense intended, of course. :-D Watching someone else playing it must be like watching a demo for "Microsoft Excel Xtreme Office Sheetspreading". Which in its own way is an excellent game fully deserving of a spot on the top 100 list.

Finally, I'm not sure I can agree with that list that had Rallisport Challenge as the Best Game Evar.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

Drop Sonic 3. I can't stand games that are cut short to meet release dates. There are many stages missing. Flying battery, Sandopolis, Mushroom Valley, and other stages are just nonexistent. When compared to Sonic 2, Sonic 3 looks like a sun-beaten paper mache' replica. Not a good game IMO.

Drop Goonies II. I don't know about other people, but that game did nothing for me. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to the joy they found in this game.

Drop Super Mario World 64. Where did all the fun go?

[Gunstarhero]

If I can give a suggestion if I may, Why not ask for everyones top 100 and compile a list of who has what and then determine each games rank based on how many times they have been voted upon? Instead of asking for which games people would axe. Give a time period for people to have there votes in by and then post the results with a tally of how many votes each game received? Including the ones that do not make the top 100, and how many votes they each received?


Just a suggestion. To make the process easier.

Dig Dug

That is a damn fine idea. I second this.

We tried that already!

Captain Yashiro was compiling lists for a MONTH but we couldn't get enough people to get involved. Not everyone has the time - or knowledge - to compile their own top 100 list.

This may take some time and it may be painful, but it will be worth it. We'll have a great list when we're done, and EVERYONE will get to particpate.

Fair enough DP, I didn't realize this was tried before.

[Gunstarhero]

TheRedEye wrote:

I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with these games, followed by an explanation of why 100 games are better than them. I know it's "nothing personal," but not including Grim Fandango, what I consider the Citizen Kane of video games, on a TOP ONE HUNDRED list makes absolutely no sense to me. The artistry of that game has yet to be even remotely touched...everything about it was a labor of love done beautifully.


I'll admit, I've never played Grim Fandango blah blah blah I said other things too

Say no more, I'm just using you as an example. People, PLEASE do not vote to axe games you haven't played. With the exception of Advance Wars, which I've only SEEN played, I've personally sat down with every game on my axe list. If you're voting to nix a game based purely on what goddam hardware it's running on, your opinions shouldn't be valid at all.

Nothing personal.

Man, why do you have to be like this? So freaking petty. I'll vote a game off based on hardware all I goddamn want to. If I'm voting on the top 100 Songs of all time, I'll purposely vote off all RAP songs if I want. You really have to be insultive about this? I mean what does it accomplish. People can use any argument they want to vote games off this list, it doesn't mean it will happen. So, please, grow up and get a grip BrownEye.

[digitalpress]

Let's give it a shot. Sorry about missing the first page but it's tough to tell when you've updated it. I finally noticed KOF '98 on the list and it's good to see that someone got something from Neo-Geo in there.

Here are my votes:


Erm... are these votes FOR the list or votes AGAINST?

[digitalpress]

If we're doing five vote offs at a time, here's mine:
Goonies 2 (nes)
Drive (GBC)
Jordan vs Bird (800)
Mario Party 4 (GCN)
Tetris DX (GBC)

I've entered these for you, but just so it's clear - you're not voting OFF, you're voting against. If you see a game that has NO strikes against it and you don't think it belongs on the top 100, you can still vote AGAINST.

That is all.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

I'll vote a game off based on hardware all I goddamn want to.

I'm just curious as to why you would do that. What does the hardware have to do with the game's ability to be enjoyable? I'd play Oregon Trail on the Apple II before I'd lift the joystick to play Super Mario 64 on the N64. The hardware has never mattered to me when playing a game. If it's good, fine. If it sucks, I'll smash it with an aluminum baseball bat.

Perhaps you could shed some light as to why hardware would really matter.

[digitalpress]

Of course, it might go faster if someone (DP, perhaps) just trimmed the list down to 100 games and left us to argue over what should go back in. That's the way we usually handle these lists, and it seems to work pretty well.

Patience, my son!

To do this right we should be methodical about it. Simple, but methodical. I wanted every game to get equal treatment, and as you can see, quite a few games that were someone's favorite have already been smashed off of the list (bye bye Night Trap, Banjo Kazooie, and others). We'll get to the point where there 100 that we can argue over - I have no doubt that this highly critical community will be smashing games off of that list for a few more days to come.

[Gunstarhero]

I'll vote a game off based on hardware all I goddamn want to.

I'm just curious as to why you would do that. What does the hardware have to do with the game's ability to be enjoyable? I'd play Oregon Trail on the Apple II before I'd lift the joystick to play Super Mario 64 on the N64. The hardware has never mattered to me when playing a game. If it's good, fine. If it sucks, I'll smash it with an aluminum baseball bat.

Perhaps you could shed some light as to why hardware would really matter.

I don't hate PC games by any means. I play PC games, and I didn't vote off all PC games listed. But, from my experience, when I think of PC games, I have to consider PROBLEMS. I have some really fun PC games, but sometimes it doesn't seem worth it, and I definetely prefer the bug free environment of console games, and I think this makes console games funner in the end. I believe console games are just better, thats my belief from experience. Do I want to pick up my controller and play a game, or spend time installing, configuring, and patching my PC game? For me the answer is clear, but some people apparently have a problem with my personal beliefs. Like I'm racist against pc games or something. I should be burned at the stake for liking console games better I guess. If my views aren't welcome, then please by all means, disregard my posts regarding this topic, as apparently after 20 years of playing games, I don't deserve an opinion here.

[digitalpress]

I should be burned at the stake for liking console games better I guess. If my views aren't welcome, then please by all means, disregard my posts regarding this topic, as apparently after 20 years of playing games, I don't deserve an opinion here.

Aww, come on now. Surely you've become acquainted with the sledgehammer debating style of some of our forum members! Don't take it personally, you have a legitimate point. And I think for every person who thinks your way there's someone who's on the complete opposite side. That's what makes these lists balance in the end. That's what makes arguing over these lists fun.

So. Have fun!

[bargora]

I'd play Oregon Trail on the Apple II before I'd lift the joystick to play Super Mario 64 on the N64.
\^_^/

Please register my votes AGAINST:

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
Demon Attack (2600)
Dreadnought Factor (Int/5200)

[ubersaurus]

Ugh, you replaced Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with just Super. Super sucked. It sucked and sucked HARD. Sure, it had 4 new characters. But they all sucked in the game. Everyone sucked in the game except for Sagat. Sagat dominated everyone. Plus they took away the speed boost from the prior edition. There's a reason that street fighter players will play World Warriors over Super SF2...even WW is a better game.

[digitalpress]

Please register my votes AGAINST:

Dreadnought Factor (Int/5200)

Now I know how ScooterB must have felt watching his favorite game (Journey Escape) get stricken from the list. In my mind, Dreadnaught Factor is Activision's secret best game ever. I'll hold out hope that it makes the list though I know it's an underdog. I'd urge anyone who hasn't played it it give it a ride so you can defend the game when I need you later :)

[digitalpress]

Ugh, you replaced Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with just Super. Super sucked. It sucked and sucked HARD. Sure, it had 4 new characters. But they all sucked in the game. Everyone sucked in the game except for Sagat. Sagat dominated everyone. Plus they took away the speed boost from the prior edition. There's a reason that street fighter players will play World Warriors over Super SF2...even WW is a better game.

Do you mean Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo for 3DO? Isn't that the only system it was released on? I'm getting mixed signals about which game to list here.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

Joe, is it too late to add Oregon Trail for the Apple II to the list?

There was nothing like walking through the woods, shooting all kinds of animals that would later become endangered. :snipersmile:

If you can add it, thanks. If not, I'm just glad to give it a mention.

[WiseSalesman]

In it's defense, Mario 64 is still about the most fun I can remember having with a video game. On the other hand, I found Oregon Trail to be the worst idea for entertainment anyone ever had. Simply terrible.

Anyway, please register votes against the following games for me:

Ys Book 1 and 2 (TG-CD) - mediocre
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (Genesis) - worst of the series on the genesis
Perfect Dark (N64) - over-hyped
Mario Party (N64) - thought it was terrible
Boy and His Blob, A (NES) - over-hyped
Conker's Bad Fur Day (N64) - I like this game, but it doesn't belong in the top 100
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) - ugh
Asheron's Call (PC) - tried it, didn't like it

Sorry, I haven't been following this thread since day one, but if they haven't already been on there, I'd vote to add:

DDR MAX (PS2) - I've logged more hours on this game than any other one I can think of.

Final Fantasy Tactics (PS) - This game became an obsession. Enough said.

....and i'm sure there's more, but this task i extremely daunting.

[bargora]

Please register my votes AGAINST:

Dreadnought Factor (Int/5200)

Now I know how ScooterB must have felt watching his favorite game (Journey Escape) get stricken from the list. In my mind, Dreadnaught Factor is Activision's secret best game ever. I'll hold out hope that it makes the list though I know it's an underdog. I'd urge anyone who hasn't played it it give it a ride so you can defend the game when I need you later :)
All right, I'll go home and give it another try. I only played that one for a half-hour or so. Maybe it'll grab me more on the second pass and I'll realize HOW WRONG I WAS. After all, it does involve shootin' the hell out of a dreadnought (which in theory makes for a guaranteed excellent game).

[Arcade Antics]

*gets in line to defend Dreadnaught Factor*

:)

Fun game, always liked it.

@Bargora: make sure you blow up some of those Dreadnaught engines first to slow 'em down a bit. Then blow up everything else. Mwahahahah!

[Nature Boy]

I don't hate PC games by any means. I play PC games, and I didn't vote off all PC games listed. But, from my experience, when I think of PC games, I have to consider PROBLEMS. I have some really fun PC games, but sometimes it doesn't seem worth it, and I definetely prefer the bug free environment of console games, and I think this makes console games funner in the end. I believe console games are just better, thats my belief from experience. Do I want to pick up my controller and play a game, or spend time installing, configuring, and patching my PC game? For me the answer is clear, but some people apparently have a problem with my personal beliefs.

I have no problems with you voting against a specific PC title because of problems you had with it. I'd do the same if I actually played one of the games listed and found similar problems to spoil my enjoyment of it. But I have a problem if you poo-poo *all* PC games because *some* (or even *most*) of them require constant patches.

I'd like to vote against Jet Grind Radio (or Jet Set Radio, or whatever you want to call it). I enjoyed it to a point but found the levels where I had to chase guys around to get their backs frustrating and definitely don't consider it top 100 material.

[IntvGene]

...sigh...

(begins defense of both JSR and Dreadnaught Factor)
Jet Grind Radio deserves to be there for starting the Cel Shading revolution alone... add an awesome soundtrack, and wicked style to its fun gameplay and I think it needs to be considered.

Dreadnaught Factor is great too. The Intellivision is much worse, due to control problems and that horizontal approach.. try the 5200. Don't just play the first levels, get to the harder, more difficult dreadnaughts and you'll see what we love. Shots flying everywhere, it's pure madness.. and way ahead of its time.

But, everyone is allowed thier votes.

And I think that debate is good. I don't think anyone's trying to make personal attacks here, this is a really tough thing to do well. IGN is trying it, with debatable success. I hope we can do better... A LOT better.

[digitalpress]

Dreadnaught Factor is great too. The Intellivision is much worse, due to control problems and that horizontal approach.. try the 5200

Ah, y'see? I like the Intellivision version a lot more! I didn't have any "control problems", but maybe that's because I am the MASTA with the disc controller. Dude, one sound that STILL freaks me out is the sound of the GIANT cannon firing on a Dreadnaught. That blast moves so fast that you have to hope you're not in line with it when it goes off.

[TheRedEye]

*sigh* I wasn't attacking you at all. If I hadn't used the word "goddam," you wouldn't have given it a second thought. I sure do attract arguments around here, don't I?

Anyhow. I had this long, drawn-out post typed up, but after hitting preview I read the tons of replies that have come since, and what I had seemed kind of obsolete. You made the racism connection yourself, I didn't have to!

Joe's pretty much right on. When I debate, I DEBATE. I'll get in heated arguments if I have to, and I will sound insulting, going as low as to, say, compare you to a racist. That's just me, I don't pussyfoot around, it really is nothing personal. So relax...at least, until something has to be debated!

Anywho. Joe, if others stick up for a game, does the minus get taken away? If so, I'd like to take away my vote against Mr. Gimmick. I mean, it was my own choice, I just felt selfish having it on there. But if portnoyd stuck up for it, it has a chance!

[Kid Fenris]

Ugh, you replaced Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with just Super. Super sucked. It sucked and sucked HARD. Sure, it had 4 new characters. But they all sucked in the game. Everyone sucked in the game except for Sagat. Sagat dominated everyone. Plus they took away the speed boost from the prior edition. There's a reason that street fighter players will play World Warriors over Super SF2...even WW is a better game.

Do you mean Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo for 3DO? Isn't that the only system it was released on? I'm getting mixed signals about which game to list here.

I think that Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was released on the PSX and Saturn as part of the Street Fighter Collection. I could be wrong, though.

I also vote for putting Final Fantasy Tactics on the list, if we can. It's a great strategy game.

And I like Keir's idea of giving people one last chance to defend a game after it leaves the list. If you can put forth a good argument for a title and get some other posters to rally behind it, we could let the game stay. Someone should take a stand for Super Mario 64, at least.

[Nature Boy]

Jet Grind Radio deserves to be there for starting the Cel Shading revolution alone... add an awesome soundtrack, and wicked style to its fun gameplay and I think it needs to be considered.

As you said, debate is good. I'd just like to further add that I don't think graphics should be a consideration necessarily. "Starting the Cel Shading Revolution" might make it an 'important' game, but that doesn't make it a good one. IMO.

[digitalpress]

I think that Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was released on the PSX and Saturn as part of the Street Fighter Collection. I could be wrong, though.

That's fine but we're not including compilations.


I also vote for putting Final Fantasy Tactics on the list, if we can. It's a great strategy game.

Done.


And I like Keir's idea of giving people one last chance to defend a game after it leaves the list. If you can put forth a good argument for a title and get some other posters to rally behind it, we could let the game stay. Someone should take a stand for Super Mario 64, at least.

I like the idea, sorta. What I think we'll do is get this beast down to 100. THEN you can defend your game and get it back on the list. If we get into too many debates about specific games in this one thread it will get hopelessly confusing. Sound fair?

[Charlie]

I really don't like the five-strikes thing... it just leaves everything open to tampering.

[digitalpress]

I really don't like the five-strikes thing... it just leaves everything open to tampering.

OK, alternate suggestion? One that won't leave everything open to tampering?

[Kid Fenris]

I think that Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was released on the PSX and Saturn as part of the Street Fighter Collection. I could be wrong, though.

That's fine but we're not including compilations.

In that case, R-Type (PSX) should be changed to, I don't know, the Turbografx-16 version, since it's only available on the PSX as part of R-Types.


I like the idea, sorta. What I think we'll do is get this beast down to 100. THEN you can defend your game and get it back on the list. If we get into too many debates about specific games in this one thread it will get hopelessly confusing. Sound fair?

Yup. I wish more people would vote, though. Where's butta, Queen, and PDF?

[Eternal Champion]

I say remove Metroid 1. I'm sorry, but for as innovative as it was for the time, it has not aged well, and cannot stand up to the other games in the series, or even similar contemporaries (like zillion). The whole thing where you started with only 30 points of health every time you put in a password was crummy, and quite frankly, Super Metroid did everything it did, and did it better.

Same story with Super Mario World. To me, it was just a weaker version of Mario 3. Sure, it looked prettier, but it played so similar, and yet had alot of the neat features of 3 gone.

And why is mario all stars on there? It's just a compilation. And if we already have most of the games in its lineup on the list, why bother?

BOO-ERNS!! Oh well, to each their own. I want to add a "+" for Metroid, I still love it, and if Zelda is on there, Metroid should be. I think only Zelda 1 & 3 and Metroid 1 & 3 of those series should be there.

Oooooh--I think "All-Stars" is more than just a comp--improved, 16-bit graphics and sound!! I think it's the definitive version of those games; I don't even have the 8-bit versions. I nominate SMB All-Stars instead of the separate games.

I'd like to nominate R-Type III for SNES--I think it's one of the best 2-D shooters ever, the best on SNES, and the best R-Type. Flame away.

If we're still on Street Fighter, SFII Turbo on SNES is all that needs to be there.

[Nature Boy]

I really don't like the five-strikes thing... it just leaves everything open to tampering.

OK, alternate suggestion? One that won't leave everything open to tampering?

Maybe you could limit the number of strikes each person could dole out. Though that might overly complicate the process. But that way somebody can't go about trampling games they don't like ad naseum. As much as I can't believe people are big enough losers to tamper with somthing like this I figure Charlie is probably right in that it'll happen.

[Charlie]

Well, the only fair way I can think of is to wait a while and then see what games have the most requests to drop. The 'five strikes' thing is silly because everyone here has different tastes. Suppose there are five people here who are dead set against... oh... Super Metroid. Now, despite the fact that they would be in a minority, that game would get dropped because of them? Likewise, there are lots of people here who will not give 3-D games the time of day and will vomit blood if they get included.

I think the only fair thing to do is to just wait a while and see which games get the most requests to get booted. This entire thing is starting to feel rushed. I mean, this isn't an exact science. Right now, who cares if the list balloons to 500 games? Just let the list get big, then say "OK, no new entrees excepted." Then start making cuts. And everyone should make a case for a games to stay and to go. Ultimately though, this is your baby Joe. I'm just along for the ride.

[ubersaurus]

Ugh, you replaced Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo with just Super. Super sucked. It sucked and sucked HARD. Sure, it had 4 new characters. But they all sucked in the game. Everyone sucked in the game except for Sagat. Sagat dominated everyone. Plus they took away the speed boost from the prior edition. There's a reason that street fighter players will play World Warriors over Super SF2...even WW is a better game.

Do you mean Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo for 3DO? Isn't that the only system it was released on? I'm getting mixed signals about which game to list here.

Yeah thats the one ;p
It works like this....
Super Street Fighter 2=sucks
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo=very very very good.

[DDCecil]

I vote against:

Axelay (SNES) - I didn't find it better than any of the other SNES shooters I have played.
Dark Wizard (Sega CD) - It was okay, nothing special, though.
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) - No. Just no.
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - I like State of Emergency better.
Marble Madness (NES/GEN) - It drives me nuts.
Mario Kart 64 (N64) - I like the SNES one better.
Top Gear 3000 (SNES) - I didn't like it.

All the other games I like, or have never played.

(How DARE does someone vote against Ninja Gaiden 2, the most PERFECT game ever made.)

[Gunstarhero]

I think Galaga should be represented on this list, but theres not an arcade perfect home version, but Galaga 90'(TG-16) would probably represent the series best. The 7800 version is fun and graphically spot on, but I thought it was a little bit too easy.

Would anyone agree that Space Megaforce(SNES) was a superior shooter over Axelay(SNES)?

Also, lets make Centipede the 5200 version, because the Trackball makes this version virtually arcade perfect. The 7800 had decent graphics, but it will never match the control of 5200 Centipede, and graphics wise, the difference is negligible.

For Ms. Pac-Man, mabye we could go with the SNES or GEN versions since these versions have more stages, co-op multiplayer, and all the gameplay with terrific graphics. She definitely deserves a spot on the list, its just which version that is going to be a problem. I'd like to see Super Pac-Man(5200) on the list, but I didn't think anyone would vote for this game to stay, plus its a prototype.

Advance Wars. I love the game, but it is really just Panzer General lite, and the genre of turn based strategy would be much better represented with Panzer General II(PC, thats right PC!! X_x ). I think the easiness of Advance Wars attracts more people to it, but PGII is, simply put, just more of everything that Advance Wars has to offer. Turn Based Strategy is a dying breed, so I wouldn't be suprised to see none on this list. Advance Wars just isn't the best one, thats why I gave it the axe.

Castlevania III is getting strikes, so I'll try to defend it. When this game was on the development table, I remember people were anticipating this thing to no end because Simon's Quest was such a disappointment. I like Simon's Quest, its got a great story, but it actually in some ways, had graphical de-hancements, especially with Simon's weapons. Castlevania III, came out, scored 9's in EGM, and high scores in other mags and blew everyone away. Very nice graphical enhancements, a nice soundtrack, along with a great story, actually multiple storylines, and the spot on awesome gameplay of the original, which is what EVERYBODY wanted back in 1989. The reason there is more appreciation for Simon's Quest nowadays is due in part to Symphony of the Night, alot of people see the correlation between the two games and grew some respect for Simon's Quest. Castlevania III introduced us to Alucard, Grant Dynasty, and Sypha Belnade, all playable with their own storylines! Talk about replay value. The game wasn't easy either, as compared to Simon's Quest, which had one hard part(the kneel down thing), but Dracula is pathetically easy to defeat in Simon's Quest, I was terribly disappointed with the weak ending and easy victory over Drac. But in CIII:DC, the bosses are imaginative, tough, big, colorfull etc..I liked that CIII brought back the gameplay of the original, but retained some story structure of CII, and Konami agreed with that, since the subsequent games retained the gameplay style of Castlevania III, meaning fast paced hack and jump sidescroller. Simon's Quest was pretty slow, and even the newer Castlevania games are fast paced, even with heavy storylines.

[le geek]

This should get interesting and ugly! :)
Here are my two cents for the moment...


[Games I'm defending:]

Adventure (2600) - -
Quite ground breaking, first easter egg, still fun

Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others) - - -
Have you played it with a mouse? Lemmings and Squad combat.

Doom (PC) - - -
Still fun, quite revolutionary

Fool's Errand, The (Mac) - -
A wicked hard puzzle game that follows the Tarot. Great design.

Jet Grind Radio (DC) - -
A beautiful game, quite fun and challenging.

Lemmings (Amiga, others) - -
Still one of the BEST non dropping blocks puzzle games.

Out of This World (PC / 3DO) - -
Also Amiga, SNES, and Genesis versions. This game blew me away when I first played it. The cinematics blended with the gameplay were great...

River Raid (2600) - -
The balance of the gameplay is still amazing, but the seemingly "endless" river!

Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) - - -
Lets keep the best one...

Super Mario World 64 (N64) - - - -
Different from the others in the series, but a brilliant 3D adventure. Totally mindblowing went it came out.

Test Drive II: the Duel (C64/Amiga/others) - -
I'll live if this one goes, but TD2 had realistic driving from the inside the car POV, on tracks that weren't loops with traffic conditions and cops. Besides the first need for speed on the 3DO, Im still waiting for a game to update this legacy.


[Games I'm voting against:]

Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES)
Keep Contra (NES)

Crystal Castles (2600) -
Great game, lousy (if ambitious port)

Doom II (PC) - -
Keep the first one

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) - - - -
Keep GTA 3

Kid Icarus (NES) - -
Not that great really

Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES)
I prefer the original NES game

Raiden (Jaguar) - - - -
There are better shooters

Space Quest IV (DOS) - -
Space Quest III was funnier and more enjoyable, also still had text parser.

Super Castlevania IV (SNES) - -
Keep the other versions for now

Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) -
Keep the original SMB

Super Mario World (SNES) - -
Keep the original SMB

Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) -
Keep the original Punchout it's better

Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO)
stick with SF2T

Wipeout (PSX) - -
keep XL

Yoshi's Island (SNES) - - -
Keep the original SMB

[Charlie]

I propose that games that are more of an 'update' rather then a true sequel be merged with all previous versions of that game.

Example: All versions of Street Fighter 2 would be merged, while all versions of Castlevania would be seperate.

This should cut quite a bit of fat out. By my counts, the following games would be merged.

Diablo and Diablo 2 (Diablo 2 was really just an update, and not a truly new experience)
Doom & Doom 2
Sega Rally 2 and Sega Rally Championship
Street Fighter Series
Super Mario 1 - 3... replace with Mario Allstars
Tetris Attack/Pokemon Puzzle
All versions of Tetris... replace with Tetris DX for the GBC
Wipeout Games

[TheRedEye]

Space Quest IV (DOS) - -
Space Quest III was funnier and more enjoyable, also still had text parser.

I'm surprised we haven't heard from more Sierra fans. The only votes we have are King's Quest and my personal vote for SQ4.

I mean, come on. Do people still regard the first King's Quest as being better than all the other Sierra games?

Here are my favorites from each series. In a personal top 100, they'd all be included:

King's Quest: I like VI the best. Easy interface, multiple endings and possibilities, colorful characters, intriguing story...very, very good game.

Space Quest: I've learned that a little gimmick that will always win my heart is the illusion of an infinite world. Space Quest IV was BIG. It technically wasn't much larger than the rest, but the illusion of time travel and a full mall to explore and several planets just won me over. Which leads me to:

Leisure Suit Larry: Part 2 was my favorite. Big, big adventure, and the one I find funniest. The repeat of the barber shops cracked me up, and so did sleeping with the maid and getting killed by her brother (the only time, incidentally, that you can get laid in the game!)

Police Quest: Going to have to go with the original. I didn't feel like a cop with the others.

And on that note, am I the only Lucasarts fan voting here? Jeepers. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Loom, Maniac Mansion, Sam & Max, etc. etc.

[digitalpress]

Maybe you could limit the number of strikes each person could dole out. Though that might overly complicate the process. But that way somebody can't go about trampling games they don't like ad naseum. As much as I can't believe people are big enough losers to tamper with somthing like this I figure Charlie is probably right in that it'll happen.

The MOST a person can "trample" is on every game, once. So that's one strike against any given game. I'm really not as intelligent as you might think. I'm missing how this can create a problem? I can always up it to 10 strikes, but then the people who think this is already too long and drawn out will argue against you.

Let's stick with this plan (unless there really is a serious flaw in it) until we get down to 100, then let's see how to go about replacing games that don't belong on the list or that have been unfairly "trampled". Fair?

[Arrrhalomynn]

I would like to 'trample' on super mario 64.
And I would love to see Baldur's gate added.

[Arcade Antics]

The 'five strikes' thing is silly because everyone here has different tastes. Suppose there are five people here who are dead set against... oh... Super Metroid. Now, despite the fact that they would be in a minority, that game would get dropped because of them? Likewise, there are lots of people here who will not give 3-D games the time of day and will vomit blood if they get included.

I see where you're coming from. But here's my two zenny on the whole thing.

The list is for Top 100 of All Time. So as a group, we have to be more objective about the list and the games. I also think that the group's different tastes should lead to a pretty well-rounded list.

e.g., I might really dig the game Super Qix on the Genesis, but at the same time, understand that it's not a Top 100 because there are lots of people who think it's mediocre at best.

Likewise, I'm generally not into RPGs or other time intensive games, BUT I see where Shenmue can fit in on the list because I know tons of people who love the game, and really, it is very well done. So while I don't play the game, I wouldn't suggest dropping it. Another example: Halo puts me to sleep. -_- But I wouldn't suggest it get dropped (if it's there) just because *I* don't care for it.

In that spirit, I don't see a problem with the five strikes rule or where our little Top 100 debate is headed. :)

[Eternal Champion]

Gunstarhero wrote:
Would anyone agree that Space Megaforce(SNES) was a superior shooter over Axelay(SNES)?

HELL YES!! Space Megaforce and R-Type III comprise the cream of the crop of SNES shooters, and I'd like to second Space Megaforce.

And I'd like to add a "+" for Kid Icarus to help offset hits against it.

[Nature Boy]

The MOST a person can "trample" is on every game, once. So that's one strike against any given game. I'm really not as intelligent as you might think. I'm missing how this can create a problem? I can always up it to 10 strikes, but then the people who think this is already too long and drawn out will argue against you.

I guess I was thinking more about those who will slam games they've never played just because they could, technically, slam all 250 choices if they wanted to. I was thinking that if we limited slams, the Xbox haters out there might avoid slamming Halo instead of games they've *actually* played and didn't like.

To be honest I don't like accepting slams that don't have a reason attached to them either, but that's another can of worms :)


Let's stick with this plan (unless there really is a serious flaw in it) until we get down to 100, then let's see how to go about replacing games that don't belong on the list or that have been unfairly "trampled". Fair?

I'm cool with that. I was just taking Charlie's suggestion and adding my Canadian nickel's worth.

[Kid Ice]

The list is coming along nicely Joe.

Count me for a strike against Perfect Dark, please.

There are strikes against SMB3? Are you crazy, dudes?

the kid

[Drexel923]

I would like to 'trample' on super mario 64.

O_O :bad-words:

I can't believe Mario 64 got tossed...that game rocks...and I think it certainly should be on list. For being one of the first fully 3D games it had great control, gameplay, and fun that took a good while to be surpassed by another like it. Plus the awe factor alone when it came out should be enough. I still remember getting it on launch and being speechless as I played. This list is an atrocity. (sp?)

oh well...such is life.

[zektor]

I would like to 'trample' on super mario 64.

O_O :bad-words:

I can't believe Mario 64 got tossed...that game rocks...and I think it certainly should be on list. For being one of the first fully 3D games it had great control, gameplay, and fun that took a good while to be surpassed by another like it. Plus the awe factor alone when it came out should be enough. I still remember getting it on launch and being speechless as I played. This list is an atrocity. (sp?)

oh well...such is life.

I second this feeling. This game was the groundbreaker for all good 3d based action/adventure games you see today. I thought (and still think) this is one incredible game, and definitely deserves to be on the list.

[Arrrhalomynn]

I was just making space to make sure Baldur's Gate would fit. Trampling some other games would be fine too :) You all may be right about Mario 64 (even though I thought it was very dull).

[Kid Ice]

Add me to the list of supporters for Super Mario 64. It's a top 25 game at the very least. I've still yet to play a game in this style as good as this one.

the kid

[digitalpress]

Now updating. I haven't thrown my strikes in there yet, but if you haven't "voted against", please do so now.

We'll get to defending the fallen titles once we get this down to 100. There are still over 240 on the list!

[NvrMore]

Ok, I'm feeling a bit dim today and I think this seems to just be a case of vote for what games you are for being in the list and what you're against that's already on, so..

FOR:

Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past (SNES)
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64/GCN)
Super Mario World (SNES)
Shadowrun (SNES)
Final Fantasy VII (PSX)
Actraiser (SNES)
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Diablo (PC)
Mario 64 (N64)
Super Metroid (SNES)


AGAINST:

Diablo II w/ Expansion (PC): It was just severly lacking compared to the original, the characters suffered continuous and sometimes serious imbalances and it spent too much time trying to swamp down the player in place of development.

Out of This World (PC / 3DO): The pseudo-sequel is far better, OoTW always became tedious and had some really frustrating gameplay points.

Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS): I Found it monotonous.

[ManekiNeko]

(posted here by the editor's request)

APB (Lynx): Kind of dull and not really to my liking. It's an innovative idea, but sometimes that's not enough to make a game a classic.

Archon (C64/Atari 8-bit/NES): Crummy chess/action hybrid which was even worse on the NES, where I played it. Stupidly simplistic fighting makes this a total bore.

Attack of the Timelord! (O2): No way does this deserve the same honor given to Galaga or Radiant Silvergun. A halfway decent game by Odyssey2 standards, but those aren't exactly high standards.

Axelay (SNES): Immensely overrated, gimmicky shooter that tries to be a next generation Gradius and fails. Miserably.

Blades of Vengeance (GEN): A so-so sword game by Electronic Arts... reasonably enjoyable, but no more so than Risky Woods, and that's no classic either.

Bonk's Revenge (TG-16): Bonk, Bonk, I'm totally not bonking. I never cared for this series much. If nothing else, at least it illustrates what Charlie Brown would have looked like in the year 5000 BC.

Boy and His Blob, A (NES): Crap, crap, megacrap. I'd be much more inclined to include this on a list of the worst NES games ever. A stupid play mechanic and primitive graphics make you wonder if Super Pitfall would have been any better if David Crane himself had designed it.

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES): Symphony of the Night proved that Castlevania could work as an adventure game. Simon's Quest had the opposite effect. Lackluster level design and uninteresting gameplay drove a stake through the heart of this one.

Contra (NES): An overrated, immensely frustrating shooter. They're all worthless as far as I'm concerned. Luckily, Gunstar Heroes takes this lump of coal and presses it into a shining diamond.

Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES): Better than the previous games or the lame Genesis version, but still hard to consider one of the best games ever. The Game Boy Advance version will dampen any enthusiasm you once had for this title.

Deluxe Galaga (Amiga): I hate to be the deciding vote on this one, but Edgar Vigdal's take on the classic Namco shooter Galaga doesn't stack up to the original thanks to unimaginative enemy formations.

Demon Attack (2600): Strike one: it's repetitive. Strike two: no boss. Strike three: it's vastly overrated, which annoys me. You're out... of my 2600!

Doom II (PC): The original had a huge impact on the gaming industry, but what makes the sequel so different?

Double Dragon (Genesis): A good translation, but too fast on the Genny... and mediocre in comparison to other, better side-scrolling brawlers. Final Fight beats the hell out of this old clunker.

Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i): Where's the beef? Even better, where's the game? It seems like Bluth did 99% of the work on this one. Also, Dragon's Lair spawned the multimedia/full motion video trend, which is in and of itself enough reason to drop it from the list.

Final Fantasy VII (PSX): Never have I played a darker, more boring RPG than this one. It's full of special effects, rendering, and other popular mid 90's buzzwords, but the one thing it lacks is fun.

Food Fight (7800): What Home Alone would have been if it had been a halfway decent (but not great) game instead of the garbage T*HQ gave us. Even the main character looks like Macaulay Calkin. Cute idea, but not as good as Robotron.

Galactic Attack (Saturn): A reasonably well done shooter, but it's no Radiant Silvergun or Dodonpachi. The wimpy power up system and target lock on detracts from the game's appeal.

Galaga (7800): You mean the *****NES***** version, right? Oh man, please say you mean the NES version!

House of the Dead, The (DC): A fun shooter while it lasts, but it lacks substance. The first game had better level designs, but the second game looked a whole lot better. Combine the two and we'll talk about inclusion in a top 100 games list.

Immortal, The (Genesis): I never really understood this one. Cool concept but tough to play if you're not familiar with the play mechanics.

Jet Grind Radio (DC): Crazy Taxi was better, and more easily accessible. We all have this game to thank for the annoying cel-shading trend that's supposed to make polygonal characters look just like cartoons... but instead makes them look like polygons with a thick outline around them.

Jumpman (C64): Boy am I not into games in this genre. They're frustrating and unforgiving. If someone included Miner 2049'er in this list I'd give it a minus as well.

Kid Icarus (NES): Overrated, and not as professionally designed as other famous NES games. There's a reason they haven't made a sequel in nearly ten years, people.

King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo): I'd much rather see '97 or '99 included on the list instead. KOF '98 always struck me as being contrived... so much so that SNK even wrote it out of the King of Fighters storyline.

Legend of Zelda, The (NES): No sir, didn't like it. I never warmed up to Zelda, especially this early version with cryptic puzzles and sterile graphics. The other ones are a little better... I can almost see why Ocarina of Time would be listed here.

Lode Runner (C64, Apple II, others): Beep beep! Whoops, wrong Runner. This Runner is wrong for this list, too... I don't have the patience to finish three quarters of a round only to have to do it all over again on the account of a single mistake. Why would anyone like that, anyway? I'll take Mr. Do!'s Castle instead of this, thanks.

Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD): I dislike this game, but it does have a purpose... it served as the template for the similar, but greatly improved Grandia series.

Mario Party (N64): Nothing's as fun as bashing buttons until your thumbs bleed. Wait a minute, that's not fun at all!

Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo): Three Metal Slug games in one Top 100 list is overkill. I'm choosing Metal Slug 3 as the weakest link... for some reason, the zombies in the game take a zillion hits to kill, and that gets both frustrating and redundant. Even Metal Slug 4 was better than this.

Miner 2049'er (800): Wow! Frustration galore! Sign me up! Uh, no.

Mr. Driller (DC): Barely qualifies as a puzzle game thanks to its extreme simplicity. Now if you chose Mr. Driller on the Game Cube instead, that I could understand... it has more modes, each with clever new play mechanics.

Mr. Gimmick! (NES): An OK platformer is not good enough for a list of this magnitude.

Ms Pac-Man (7800): There are better versions of this game available, trust me. There's no reason to settle for this one.

Night Stalker (Intellivision): Enjoyable, but not as fun as Wizard of Wor.

Ninja Gaiden (NES): The only thing worse than watching your favorite arcade game devolve into some crappy Castlevania wannabee is watching everyone else get excited about it. Ninja Gaiden is another classic example of Nintendo's revisionist history... somehow, you just couldn't find "arcade translations" on the system which were actually, you know, arcade translations.

Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES): Less crappy than the first game, but still frustrating and annoying. The frustration is from bats and eagles knocking you into pits. The annoyance stems from the original "Ninja Gaiden" being popular enough to spawn a sequel.

Out of This World (PC / 3DO): Yes, please get it out of this world. Here's the side-scrolling equivalent of Dragon's Lair... make one wrong move and you're toast. Attention people of Earth: frustrating, rigid gameplay is not fun.

Pilotwings (SNES): This gimmicky flight simulator has aged so badly Nintendo won't even redesign it for the Game Boy Advance. Thank goodness good taste won out in the end over flashy Mode 7 effects and endless hype.

Pitfall II (5200): Granted, this was an early effort, but I've played better action/adventure games. Part of my indifference to this game stems from the fact that it inspired Super Pitfall. I've noticed scenes in both games that were very similar.

Pole Position II (7800): A good translation, but there are better arcade racing games out there.

Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others): Groundbreaking? Yes. Entertaining? Eh, well, maybe a little, but the pace is a little too plodding for my tastes.

Raiden (Jaguar): Looks like this is your last strike! Byeee! Don't forget to write! Also, take out a loan and buy some more original play mechanics... the whole shot/bomb thing has been done to death in a million other shooters.

Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX): Some Bubble Bobble games are excellent, and others... well, they're like this. The vertically scrolling rounds made the game somewhat awkward and distanced it from the other games in the series.

Rez (PS2): Too bad you can't hang this one on a museum wall. Rez always struck me as more of a work of art rather than a game... strip away the visuals and you've got a very plain shooter in the vein of Space Harrier.

Robotron: 2084 (7800): Again, there are better versions out there. The game kicks ass on the Saturn, and probably the Playstation too.

Rygar (NES): Weird, clumsy, and like Tecmo's other "gem" Ninja Gaiden, nothing at all like the arcade game. Kind of fun when you get used to the changes, but it doesn't get the gold medal in my opinion.

Shenmue (Dreamcast): Innovative, and more fun than expected, but slow and difficult to control.

Shining Force (Genesis): I'm not a Camelot fan, and this is one of the reasons why.

Slime World (Lynx): A freakishly weird adventure that's fun, but not incredible. The endless exploration is good for burning away a few brain cells when you're bored.

Solstice (NES): How hard can you possibly make an NES game? Eh, about this hard. The clumsy isometric perspective is tough to deal with, too.

Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis): It's pretty good, but I'd rather that one of the Game Boy Advance Sonic games were included instead. They're just as fun, and the graphics are crisper and more impressive.

Star Tropics (NES): Look, it's the Legend of Zel-Duh! A lobotomized version of Zelda with hip new characters isn't any more likely to entertain me than the real thing.

Streets of Rage (Genesis): I'd rather see Streets of Rage II on this list instead. The characters were larger and the game carried much more impact. The original looks like an NES game in comparison.

Super Bomberman 2 (SNES): Not the best of the Bomberman games, and there are plenty of them. Saturn Bomberman gets my vote as the best in this series.

Super Castlevania IV (SNES): Pick a Game Boy Advance version, any Game Boy Advance version. Whatever you choose, it'll be better than this. Here's another example of an early Super NES game that blows all the system's whistles and rings all its bells... but doesn't spend nearly as much time keeping the player entertained.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV (SNES): I'd rather have Turtles II: The Arcade Game if it's all the same to you.

Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis): I can't help but think of this game in the same light as ET. You wander around aimlessly, collecting stuff while weird Earthlings run out to harass you. The only thing missing are the pits.

Turmoil (2600): Hee hee, guess who gets the last vote? Sorry, but I don't like Turmoil much. It's too clumsy for a fast action shooter.

UN Squadron (SNES): It looks fantastic, but man is this game ever frustrating thanks to the semi rapid fire weapons and nerve-wracking klaxon that blows in your ears when you're hit.

Venture (ColecoVision): A so-so conversion of a so-so arcade game. The control is stiffer than it should be... Winky faces in the direction you point the joystick, THEN moves, instead of just running. The result is that you can't dodge an enemy at the last second, a feature most other shooters do offer.

Vib Ribbon (PSX): Overrated and hard to play. Weird stylistically, and not just because of the polygons... what the hell does Vibri keep turning into, anyway?

Wipeout (PSX): The sequel, as well as Wipeout 64, were better. Psynosis had the right idea, though... this is certainly a quantum leap ahead of F-Zero (two grades which I would probably give Nintendo's own futuristic racing game).

Zillion (SMS): Sega's answer to Metroid. Either that or insomnia... I can't tell which.

JR

[NvrMore]

Heads up, I'm over-stepping my mark for a moment..

You know I was just thinking about this whole keep or kill system and the problem is it relies on people putting down other people's choices or favorite games, which isn't really neccesary.

I mean, this isn't meant to be a list to represent the best games in general, it's just meant to be the Roundtable's top 100 i.e. the 100 games which people here consider to be the best, thus in terms of compiling the list it's simply about what each individual likes, not what they dislike, then all you have to do is add it all together and the best games will emerge through how many people they are favored by.

I did a SNES list on these boards a while ago because a similar problem was arising at the time in the official list using a method in which all I did was ask that people post their personal top 10 and then for each person who listed a title, that title got a point, thus as more people contributed the games became distinguishable in their popularity until a clear list of X number could be determined. It meant nobody had to put down another persons choices and as such nobody's choices were trampled on or disected. If your game didn't make the list it just meant that not everyone felt as strongly about it as you do, not that it was a bad game.

e.g. if making a top 5, people get to vote for their top 3:

Person A:

Game 1
Game 4
Game 2

Person B:

Game 2
Game 3
Game 1

Person C:

Game 2
Game 5
Game 3

Person D:

Game 2
Game 4
Game 1

Person E:

Game 3
Game 6
Game 5

Thus result list is:

Game 2 (4)
Game 1 (3)
Game 3 (3)
Game 4 (2)
Game 5 (2)
Game 6 (1)

..and anything scored to low doesn't make the list (e.g. game 6)

Anyway, just an idea to get around the arguments and be impartial, feel free to ignore, mock or take measured offence :D

[Kid Fenris]

I think that the slow progress of this list can be blamed on the limited input thus far. I'm surprised that so many forum regulars haven't yet put in their two cents. If this list is supposed to represent the opinions of the entire Roundtable, it's important that we get suggestions from everyone.

Except Chocobokick. She can sit out in the hall.

[Daniel Thomas]

I think what's really necessary here is to group together series of games. The way things are going, we're all arguing over which version of Castlevania or Contra or Mario is great, and which sucks.

Just group them together as a (series). That opens up a lot more space for more titles, and it's just easier on us all. Most game sequels, after all, are just minor enhancements, anyway.

[digitalpress]

Just group them together as a (series). That opens up a lot more space for more titles, and it's just easier on us all. Most game sequels, after all, are just minor enhancements, anyway.

Lots of good suggestions, and I promise I'm reading every one.

I'm kinda up for this. We've done it this way in individual system lists, so it would be along our lines anyway... someone want to second this motion (or state why it's a serious problem)? I kinda hoped we'd be able to choose games on their own merit (for me, Castlevania II BLOWS and the original and III were great) - but this might simplify things, and if you know me, you know I'm going for "simplify".

*looks "simplify" up in dictionary*

[Arrrhalomynn]

I would also like to add planescape: torment.
One of the most brilliant and unique rpg's of the last years. Really an amazing game.

I also agree mr. driller shouldn't be in there. It's really not that much of a good game. I would love to see columns added though.

I think Tomb Raider deserves a place. Everybody seems to hate it now, but when it was released it was quite a special, good game. And fun to play too.

Railroad tycoon is one of my all time favorites and should be in the list. Playing with your own trains on the computer, wow!

And how about Tenchu: stealth assasins or tekken 3? They might not be master pieces like doom or tetris, but I certainly enjoyed them a lot more than a Zelda, metal gear solid or wipeout.

[WiseSalesman]

Let me register my vote against Final Fantasy VII. I forgot to do it before, and I want to get it in before it's too late (so I can concentrate on defending game, especially Mario 64, later).

It's not that I didn't think FF7 was okay, it's just that it was mediocre. Yes, it was "revolutionary", in that it introduced the world to playing a game only to see the pretty FMVs. And, yes, I'll even agree that it did bring a lot more fans into the series. But, ultimately, FF7 stands for everything I think is wrong with the Final Fantasy series today. It's characters were empty, it was all about the "flash and glammer" ;) , and the story was boring.

And don't come to me with your stories about how Aeris' death scene inspired you. I felt nothing. She was a collection of stereotypes, hastily thrown together with no real personality at all. I got far more emotional impact out of palom and porom's death scenes than I did from her's.

[Kid Fenris]

I would also like to add planescape: torment.
One of the most brilliant and unique rpg's of the last years. Really an amazing game.

Seconded. I know it's unfair to keep suggesting stuff when we already have a huge list to sort through, but Torment is one of the best PC RPGs I've ever played.

[le geek]

Just group them together as a (series). That opens up a lot more space for more titles, and it's just easier on us all. Most game sequels, after all, are just minor enhancements, anyway.

Lots of good suggestions, and I promise I'm reading every one.

I'm kinda up for this. We've done it this way in individual system lists, so it would be along our lines anyway... someone want to second this motion (or state why it's a serious problem)? I kinda hoped we'd be able to choose games on their own merit (for me, Castlevania II BLOWS and the original and III were great) - but this might simplify things, and if you know me, you know I'm going for "simplify".

*looks "simplify" up in dictionary*

This is probably a good idea. I personally tend to lean towards which games came up with something new and different (as well as being good and fun) so take Mario for example I would favor SMB and Super Mario 64. But others tend to like the best version say (SMB 3 or SMW), so grouping as the series would eliminate that problem.

Some thoughts:
What about if some versions don't measure up like say any Pitfall after two, or the 3-D Castlevanias? Would it make sense to note which games weren't up to snuff?

Also, what if a game becomes quite different like say 3-D Mario vs 2-D Mario?


But this may be nitpicking way early, the first task is to get the list down to 100... :)

Cheers,
Ben

[TheRedEye]

Some thoughts:
What about if some versions don't measure up like say any Pitfall after two, or the 3-D Castlevanias? Would it make sense to note which games weren't up to snuff?

Also, what if a game becomes quite different like say 3-D Mario vs 2-D Mario?

Yeah, I had this argument earlier over Monkey Island. I only want 1 & 2 grouped as a series, 3 & 4 are their own damned things.

[ubersaurus]

I'm just gonna clarify why I think Mr. Driller deserves to be on that top 100 list...
Alot of people are complaining about how its not the greatest puzzle game ever made. Well, what I like about Driller is that even if its not the greatest in that genre, its so unlike any other puzzle game, that even people who don't have much interest in those types of games, such as myself, love Mr. Driller. It took puzzle games and made them really sweet, and funny, and entertaining to play and watch. Few other games in that genre can do that, and certainly even fewer can lure in people who don't like puzzle games that much. It's like a puzzler that doesn't even seem like it.
As far as graphics, and sound go, they both do what they have to do. But this game isn't about that. It's just pure, simple, fun. It's been considered to be a top game for PSX and DC, as well as one of the best arcade games to come out in a while (but those games aren't cared about on this list).

Also, on a side note, the reason Robotron for the 7800 is on the list is simple. 1: Most of the releases of it after that were in compilation packs, which are not allowed. 2: It captures the speed of the speed of the arcade game beautifully. and 3: It can use two joysticks, which, to my knowledge, only other console that can do that is the 5200 version, which is inferior gameplay wise to the 7800 version.

[digitalpress]

OK, the list is now up to date with your suggested "strikes" and a few have been added. PLEASE check over the list for new entries (usually the ones with no strikes) and "vote against" if you see fit.

Also I've voted a few out. The games that had 4 strikes that I would not have chosen for a top 100 were whacked. This included:

Advance Wars: fun game... but not "top 100" fun.
Beamrider: Ehh... I was never a fan. It's an OK game but really, in the world of vertical shooters I don't even think this makes a top 100.
Demon Attack: I loved the game and it is historically significant and still fun, but there are so many games that have done this better.
Diablo: Please. I'd rather play Gauntlet.
Double Dragon: Too bad there isn't a better home version because the game itself is worth of a top 100. Just not the Genny version, or really any other home version. Looking forward to the top 100 arcade games so I can fight for this one.
Immortal, The: Pretty innovative stuff but have you played it recently?
Kid Icarus: Overrated from day one. I was never a fan, sorry.
Perfect Dark: This is one of those games that a lot of people really love. I'm not one of those people. The frame rate seems choppy to me when there's a lot going on and that doesn't make an FPS fan happy.
Re-Volt: This is the only game on my list here that I thought "what the hell is this doing here".
TMNT IV: Yeah, it's fun, but like Advance Wars, not "top 100" fun. I just can't see it on the final list.
UN Squadron: is this really more than an above-average horizontal shooter? Again, on a list of horizontal shooters this game wouldn't rank highly for me.
Wipeout: Wipeout XL is the game, or even Wipeout 3. XL corrected the problems of the first Wipeout, specifically the "stop dead when you hit a rail" issue. For that reason, I'll fight to the death for XL but this one can get scratched. Let's not confuse the two games.

So we're down to 234 games. We have a LONG way to go. We need more people to "vote against" titles on the current list.

[Nature Boy]

I'll throw a few more strikes out there:

Archon: I never really loved it in the day (although I did play it now and again) - and I never pick it up now. Not top 100 material.

Shenmue: Interesting game but it was missing something. Maybe action. Plus I'd never replay this game. Being unique doesn't cut it for me - not top 100 material.

Starfox 64: A game I played once and enjoyed but wouldn't ever bother playing a second time. For me, a top 100 game is a game I'm going to go back and play again - which makes it tougher on this kind of game (and Shenmue) but I stand by that criteria.

Part of our problem might be the volume: I've only played like half of the games on the list (and I refuse to vote against something I know only be reputation). I'm having a hard time believing that Mario Sunshine has less votes that Super Mario World - what's up with that? I wouldn't vote against either at this point, but SMW should be high on the list IMO. (And for the record - I agree with Mario 64 leaving the list. I *loved* it when it was new but when I tried to go back to it I'd always lose interest real fast - and I wonder if Mario Sunshine is really the same).

[Arcade Antics]

Votes for additional strikes:

Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64)
Boy and His Blob, A (NES)
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
Gauntlet (NES)
MUSHA (Genesis)
Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES)
Oregon Trail (Apple II)
Pilotwings (SNES)
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64)
Pole Position II (7800)
Rush:2049 (N64/DC)
Slime World (Lynx)
Star Tropics (NES)
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga)
StarFox 64 (N64)
Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar)
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX)
Tomb Raider (many)
Unreal Tournament (PC)
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)
Xenogears (PSX)
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC)
Zillion (SMS)

[Sylentwulf]

Don't really care for this setup, 100 people say it should be number one, 5 people say it shouldn't be in the top 100, so it gets taken out completely? <shrug>

Here are my strikes:
Daggerfall (PC) - - - -
Diablo II w/ Expansion (PC) - - -
Doom II (PC) - - - -
Dune II (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Frequency (PS2) - - - -
Grim Fandango (PC) -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - -
Jet Grind Radio (DC) - - -
Mars Matrix (DC) -
Oregon Trail (Apple II) -
Out of This World (PC / 3DO) - - - -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn)
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) -
Rez (PS2) - -
Sim City 2000 (PC) - -
Solstice (NES) - -
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis) - - - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - -
Virtua Fighter 2 (Saturn) -

[AB Positive]

were the votes against from the 'other' top 100 thread counted? plus, where did it go so I don't vote against the same game twice.... gotta be fair.


...*grumbles* I can't believe FFVII has 4 votes....

-AdamG

[anagrama]

I could happily see the back of the following :

APB (Lynx) - it's fun, it's novel, it's not one of the best 100 games ever.
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - I'd keep Saturn BM, and lose this
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - 4 Castlevanias are unnecessary, and these 2 are the most disposable
Doom (PC) - Yes, it's revolutionary, but the sequel in unarguably superior
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - Yuck.
Final Fantasy II (SNES) - 3 FF RPGs is over the top
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - It's not Shining Force
Gran Turismo 1 or 3 (PS2) - *yawn* Realistic driving games do nothing for me, and while I can understand that 1 GT iteration should be included, surely both are unnecessary?
Landstalker (Genesis) - It's not Zelda
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - 4 different Zeldas ?
Mario Kart 64 (N64) - Inferior to it's prequel in every way (except for the possibility of 4 players)
Metal Slug 3 (Neo-Geo) - Variations on a theme
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo) - ditto
Mr. Driller (DC) - Where's the 2 player mode?
Pokemon Puzzle League (Nintendo 64) - I can live with slowdown if Pikachu is the alternative
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - Not one of the best 100 games ever
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - Personally I'd take II or III over the other Shining Forces, and the CD version is nothing special
Sonic & Knuckles (Genesis) - Only fun in combination with the other carts
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - Bettered by several other Streetfighters
Streets of Rage (Genesis) - Keep the much improved sequel (not that this one is bad)
Super Bomberman 2 (SNES) - Not even the best SNES Bomberman
Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) - For once, I'd rather keep the original

I realize I've nominated quite a few games there, including many that I love, but we need to get strict about this if it'll ever be whittled down to 100.
I limited myself to games I'd had enough experience of to form a solid opinion (there's many others that I'd be amazed about if they're top-100 material, but cannot properly comment)

Also, it seems that the obscure games on obscure platforms have an unfair advantage here (does the Astrocade really host one of the 100 finest ever videogames?), since most people are unfamiliar with them and unable to comment, while there's always going to be contrary opinions about big well-known games (Mario 64 threatened with the chop? Oh, come on now)

Also, I would argue very strongly for keeping the following:
Jet Set Radio - One of my favourite DC games, and the reason I bought an Xbox (which has been gathering dust for months)
Yoshi's Island - I would fight to my last breath for this one - yes, there's probably too many Mario games on the list, but I could lose just about any of them before this. I really believe that it's the pinnacle of 2D platforming with so many beautiful touches, truly inspired gameplay mechanics and huge replayability.

But hell, what do I know?

[digitalpress]

Don't really care for this setup, 100 people say it should be number one, 5 people say it shouldn't be in the top 100, so it gets taken out completely? <shrug>

Try to follow along Toby :P

Getting knocked off the list now does not make it etched in stone. If 100 people think a game belongs as #1 it will be number one but if you've been following along a) there haven't even been 100 participants; and b) I have yet to see such a title disputed. Space Channel 5? Mario 64? Seems to be an equal number of fors and againsts - so we'll duke it out with them later.

[digitalpress]

were the votes against from the 'other' top 100 thread counted? plus, where did it go so I don't vote against the same game twice.... gotta be fair.


What "other" top 100 thread? That should answer your question :P

Plus, I stated in that thread that I wasn't counting those because it would be a nightmare to track them all.

ALL voting is done in this thread.

[digitalpress]

Also, it seems that the obscure games on obscure platforms have an unfair advantage here (does the Astrocade really host one of the 100 finest ever videogames?), since most people are unfamiliar with them and unable to comment, while there's always going to be contrary opinions about big well-known games (Mario 64 threatened with the chop? Oh, come on now)

Don't worry, when we get to 100 we'll cover these issues. I agree, there are some games on this list I've never even heard of. For NOW, I'm not voting against them, but I'll expect those who truly know the game to argue the point.

By the way, Astrocade Incredible Wizard is a way better game than Super Mario 64. I HATE platform games, and I hate games where I find myself lost or wandering around wasting time. No such game belongs in a top 100 - IN MY OPINION :)

[anagrama]

Holy crap!
I can't believe I've forgotton Speedball 2 (Amiga/MD/CD32) so far.
I don't suppose there's time to squeeze another onto the list is there? (I'd jettison just about any of my other choices in favour of this)

*slaps forehead*

[Arrrhalomynn]

I'd like to give doom and dune 2 some support. They are both great and influential games that definately belong in the top 100.

These don't:
Colony Wars (PSX) - - - I hired it once and didn't find it very special or very good. It was entertaining for a few days though.

Guardian Heroes (Saturn) - I don't understand what people see in this game. Sure it's entertaining for 30 minutes, but after that it gets tedious. Maybe it's not just my type of game, but I definatly don't think this is one of the 100 best games ever.

Mr. Driller (DC) - - - - Funny little game, but not fun enough.

Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - A poor sequel to the fantastic sega rally. No need for this.

Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - It's mario, but apart from that it doesn't have much that makes it so great.

I also think all castlevania's, final fantasy's, grand theft auto's and zelda's could be put together. And I would like to see Shenmue turned into shenmue series, since part 2 is, I think, slightly better than the first part.

[girth305]

OK,

I will keep my mouth shut about what I think should be on, but I will put my votes on what should be striked. Just cause I think these should be striked does not mean I think they are bad games. Hell I own most of them. So here we go.

Baldur's Gate (PC) - I know I am the only one to shoot at it, but not feeling it for the all time.

Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - Still think the saturn one is better, I have to pick one because its all pretty much the same game.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - Thought it was good, but not that good, give me simon's quest or sotn anyday.

Final Fantasy II (SNES) - Love it, but III (snes), VII, and tactics are what needs to stay up.

Mr. Driller (DC) - Good but not that good.

Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES) - Played the crap out of it, but not as much as the first.

Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others) - - Innovative, fun, but not more than once.

Rygar (NES) - I think this one hurts the most, but its got to go.

Shenmue (Dreamcast) - Don't shoot please, I respect it but It's not for this list.

Solstice (NES) - This is for all time here folks, doesn't come to mind for this list I am afraid.

Streets of Rage (Genesis) - We all know the second one is the best one.

Super Punch-Out!! (SNES) - No one has voted against the first one for a reason, the second one just doesn't stand up.

Tomb Raider (many) - Would this title be up if Laura Croft was not in it? I can't say for sure, but doubt is enough for this list I think

One last thing, is it possible to seperate the games that have no vote against them? Would that be a bad idea?

Take care all, don't mean piss anyone off

[ubersaurus]

No list that has Soul Caliber but no Mr. Driller can be a valid list. Why?

Because Soul Caliber sucks, and Mr. Driller is wicked awesome.

[anagrama]

No list that has Gran Turismo but no Space Channel 5 can be a valid list.

I agree entirely :-D

[Charlie]

Again, if Pokemon Puzzle League goes and Tetris Attack stays, then this isn't a true "best 100 ever" list. If you hate Pokemon Puzzle League because it has Pokemon, you're not only incredibly shallow, but you're not a true gamer.

[Charlie]

The following games I can't believe are still on the list. Kill them all.


Axelay (SNES) - - - -
Bomberman Party Edition (PSX) - - - -
Boy and His Blob, A (NES) - - - (seriously, how the hell did this even get nominated?)
Colony Wars (PSX) - - -
Columns (Genesis)
Doom (PC) - - - -
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - - -
Dune II (PC) - - - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) - - - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - - -

Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) - -
Mr. Driller (DC) - - - -
Ninja Gaiden 2 (NES) - - - -
Rainbow Islands (NES, PSX)
Shadowgate (NES) - -
Shenmue (Dreamcast) - - -
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - - -
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Tetris (Gameboy) (Seriously, why is this here instead of the far, far superior Tetris DX for the GBC?)
Tetris Attack (SNES) - - (Pokemon Puzzle League is way better.)

Overall, this list is really degenerating. It's starting to become about personal biases instead of making a list that contains the best 100 game ever.

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you people? Pokemon Puzzle League can't be fun because it has Pokemon in it, so the incredibly outdated Tetris Attack gets the nod instead. Nevermind the fact that the sounds and characters in it are everybit as soulless and annoying as Pokemon Puzzle League. It's not even a Pokemon game for god's sake. It's Tetris Attack with a different coat of paint. Whatever. If Pokemon had come out in 1985 then everyone here but be listing it until they were blue in the face. Nobody here wants it because it's a modern fad, instead of THEIR fad. Just plain ignorant.

The original Tetris for the GB is in while Tetris DX for the GBC isn't even on the list. Whatever... superior games shouldn't be included in a list that's about the 100 most superior games. And yet there is a chance true top 100 games like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN will be listed along side A Boy and his Blob and Shenmue.

Revolutionary shit should NOT factor in. Being fun should be. Shenmue was not fun. Metroid Prime was. Everquest is not fun. Dragon's Lair is not fun. What is this list about? Revolution? Neostagic games? Or is it about the best 100 ever?

[Raedon]

Strikes for these games:

Boy and His Blob, A (NES) - fun but nothing original out of the 100,000's of other home games

Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES) - I may be the only one but I found this game easy and was a game I only rented once and beat.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - not a top 100 game

Centipede (7800) - a top on a 7800 list but..



Bah.. I'm getting frustrated looking at all the console games..


Let me just post my top home games in no order:

DOOM
Bards tale
Zork
The Pawn
Pool of Radiance
Baldar's Gate
Everquest
Duke Nukem 3d
Unreal Tournament
Sam and Max hit the road
Day of the Tentacle
Space Quest
AD&D-INTV
Snafu-INTV
Astrosmash-INTV
SMB
SMB3
Zelda1
Bubble Bobble
Lolo
Solomon's Key
RC Pro AM
DW4

more to come..

This is a top 100 home games right?

[Charlie]

Why was Star Tropics removed from the list? I counted only 3 votes against it, compaired to about 50 people who think it should stay (as in they didn't vote against it.)

If we're all going to vote with our personal biases, then I say Star Tropics should stay on the list, as it is the greatest game ever made.

[Charlie]

I would like to point out that at this point, if you eliminate every game that has 2 or more strikes, we're sitting on 99 (!) games... add 1, that's 100, and that's as close as we're going to come to a decent list.

Baldur's Gate (PC)
Bard's Tale
Baseball Stars (NES)
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16) -
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Burgertime (Intellivision)
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX)
Centipede (7800) -
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Columns (Genesis)
Combat (2600) -
DDR MAX (PS2)
Devil's Crush (TG-16)
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy)
Dracula X (PCE Duo)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) -
Dragonstomper (2600) -
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Food Fight (7800)
Gauntlet (NES) -
Goldeneye 007 (N64)
Guardian Heroes (Saturn) -
Gunstar Heroes(Genesis)
Halo (Xbox)
Ico (PS2)
Jumpman (C64) -
Kaboom! (2600)
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
LeChuck's Revenge: Monkey Island 2 (DOS) -
Legend of Zelda
Legend of Zelda
Little Computer People (C64) -
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Marble Madness (NES/GEN) -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Mega Man 2 (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Metroid Prime (GC) -
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES)
Military Madness (TG-16)
MULE (C64)
MUSHA (Genesis) -
Night Stalker (Intellivision) -
Nights (Saturn)
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn) -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)
Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -
Pirates! (C64)
Pitfall II (5200) -
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Point Blank (PSX)
Populous (PC)
Qix (5200/NES)
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn
Return Fire (3DO/PSX) -
River City Ransom (NES) -
R-Type (TG-16)
Samurai Shodown 2 (Neo Geo)
Saturn Bomberman (Saturn)
Scorched Earth (PC) -
Secret of Mana (SNES)
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) -
Sentinel
Snatcher (Sega CD)
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Soul Calibur(DC)
Space Invaders (2600) -
Space Taxi (C64) -
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit
Star Raiders (5200/Atari 8-bit) -
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
Suikoden II (PSX) -
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Super Metroid (SNES)
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) -
Tekken 3 (PSX)
Tempest 2000 (Jaguar) -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) -
Terranigma (SNES import)
Tetris (Game Boy) -
Times of Lore (C64
Tomb Raider (many) -
Tony Hawk Pro Skater (series)
Twisted Metal 2 (PSX) -
Ultima IV (Apple II/C64/PC) -
Utopia (Intellivision)
Vagrant Story (PSX)
Venture (ColecoVision) -
Warcraft 2 (PC) -
Warlords (2600) -
Wasteland (C64) -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) -
Wizball (C64) -
Yar's Revenge (2600) -

[TheRedEye]

The original Tetris for the GB is in while Tetris DX for the GBC isn't even on the list. Whatever... superior games shouldn't be included in a list that's about the 100 most superior games. And yet there is a chance true top 100 games like Super Metroid and Castlevania SOTN will be listed along side A Boy and his Blob and Shenmue.

Revolutionary shit should NOT factor in. Being fun should be. Shenmue was not fun. Metroid Prime was. Everquest is not fun. Dragon's Lair is not fun. What is this list about? Revolution? Neostagic games? Or is it about the best 100 ever?

What's this you're saying about personal bias? I happen to think Shenmue was a blast. The way that game just engulfed me in its world is something I haven't experienced since. By your definition, does "fun" have to equal "arcade?" Do adventure games and hybrids such as Shenmue not count because the action is minimal?

[Charlie]

My argument against Shenmue: Horrible voice acting, more down time then any game I can remember, no ending. Sure, I was stunned by the graphics and I will admit that it was revolutionary, but it isn't one of the best 100 games ever made.

[anagrama]

Jesus Christ, what is wrong with you people? ...

At the end of the day, any form of 'Best Of' list is only going to produce controversy, especially one as wide ranging as this, and there is no way you can please all the people, even some of the time.
Of course it's going to include personal bias, otherwise we'd end up with the same usual suspects that top every other 'best of' poll. The variety of different approaches and attitudes to gaming and collecting here at DP is one of the principal things that set it aside from the vast majority of other forums, and this poll is only going to reflect that.

Personally, I prefered Tetris Attack as an under-appreciated SNES game than as a money-spinning licence cash-in. Don't get me wrong, I have no beef against Pokemon (I have over 200 hours logged on Blue, 50+ on Red, Yellow and Silver (each) and a few hours on Gold and Crystal, as well as the N64 games. Along with a mini Slowbro sat on my monitor. Just keep it quiet, OK :-D ) but to me TA/PPL will always mean the SNES game I was able to play (and love) in 1995 rather than the 95% identical game that came several years later.
But if that makes me extremely shallow and not a true gamer, then I guess I'll somehow live with that. Hell, I rank Space Channel 5 as one of, if not the, most beautiful forms of electronic entertainment I've experienced, so that shows what I know.

[WiseSalesman]

It's also possible that the reason Teris Attack is getting voted higher than Pokemon Puzzle league is because:

a.) More people have played tetris attack
b.) Tetris Attack came first, and Pokemon Puzzle League seems derivative

[Charlie]

See though, that's why the voting out system doesn't work, because there are people who are voting out Pokemon Puzzle League because it's a Pokemon game and then there are people who are voting it out because they haven't played it. Again, I thought the idea was to make a list with the top 100 games ever. And most of the time with video game remakes, games get better then worse.

Pokemon Puzzle League has more options then Tetris Attack. It has better graphics and less slowdown. But you know what, fuck it all. I vote against both of them. Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the Gamecube gets my vote. It has Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack) AND Dr. Mario AND Yoshi's Cookie AND a couple others. And it has 4 player mode on Tetris Attack. And it doesn't even fall under Joe's 'no compliation' rule because each game offers new experiences instead of a graphics overhaul.

[WiseSalesman]

Nintendo Puzzle Collection for the Gamecube gets my vote. It has Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack) AND Dr. Mario AND Yoshi's Cookie AND a couple others. And it has 4 player mode on Tetris Attack.

Is puzzle collection even out yet? And is there any new news on whether there might be a US release?[/quote]

[ArnoldRimmer83]

I think Mr Gimmick should be in the top 100.

And I would drop Dragon's Lair.

[TheRedEye]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Waiiit a god damn second. Has Grim Fandango really had five strikes against it? It's not on the list.

...okay. I want to hear ONE person, just ONE, explain why they don't feel Grim Fandango deserves to be on this list (besides "It's a PC game."). I absolutely guarantee that, if it has had five strikes, all five people haven't played the game. This isn't cool.

Grim Fandango is quite simply the most artistic video game ever created. It combines Mexican and Aztec culture with Film Noir, has one of the greatest soundtracks ever from smalltime jazz and blues bands, and is the closest a video game has ever come to true literature.

For god's sake, people, don't kill this game off if you haven't played it. Just look at this. How can you hate this?

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen05.jpg

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen06.jpg

http://www.grimfandango.net/screenshots/gfscreen03.jpg

*gasps for breath*

I know this isn't the end-all of lists or anything, but I expect more from the fine folks at Digital Press. I thought we were sophisticated here. I don't like that the game I consider to be the Citizen Kane of video games has been killed off of a top ONE HUNDRED list without explanation.

EDIT:

Am I completely insane, or was the game off of our list last night? It's sure as hell there now...

[digitalpress]

The following games I can't believe are still on the list. Kill them all.

--long list--


Um, HELLO?

There's no possible way that you can thiink voting for a game twice is FAIR. I've registered your votes already Charlie - unless you're voting against games added after you initially voted (see your "sigh, I have no life" post), please wait until we get to 100 where you can then fight for your favorites to get back in.

[digitalpress]

Why was Star Tropics removed from the list? I counted only 3 votes against it, compaired to about 50 people who think it should stay (as in they didn't vote against it.)

If we're all going to vote with our personal biases, then I say Star Tropics should stay on the list, as it is the greatest game ever made.

People who voted against StarTropics:

Captain Yashiro
Kid Fenris
TheRedEye
ManekiNeko
ME

[digitalpress]

OK we are officially UPDATED.

Just over 200 games... we're getting there.

I just want to say that I'm very glad that I don't work with some of you in real life - nothing would ever get done! Try to see the big picture here. Just because some games are getting knocked out now doesn't mean they're gone for good. I don't know how many times I have to say it. Consider the process "weeding out", and the statistical likelihood that games that no one has a problem with form a good foundation for a greatest games list. That doesn't mean they're the greatest, it means they're the least controversial - and that sets some of them up for scrutiny which is good for argument regading replacement.

Stick to the plan, you may have to be a little patient but it will work.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

That's what Grim Fandango looks like? I can't believe I actually cast the terminating strike against it. KIDDING KIDDING LOL

Anyway, it'll be nice to see how the list rounds out. Yeah, I've had some of my favorites already tossed, and one more on the way out. But since Super Mario 64, and Sonic 3 are gone, I feel as I've done a public service. :D

[TheRedEye]

Why was Star Tropics removed from the list? I counted only 3 votes against it, compaired to about 50 people who think it should stay (as in they didn't vote against it.)

If we're all going to vote with our personal biases, then I say Star Tropics should stay on the list, as it is the greatest game ever made.

People who voted against StarTropics:

Captain Yashiro
Kid Fenris
TheRedEye
ManekiNeko
ME

I don't feel the game offers anything extraordinary or even unique. It's a fun game, sure, but I can name 100 games that I find more fun. The RPG parts were sloppy and weird, the action was fairly clever but nothing special, and the story didn't intrigue me at all.

[Sylentwulf]

Try to follow along Toby :P
Getting knocked off the list now does not make it etched in stone. If 100 people think a game belongs as #1 it will be number one but if you've been following along a) there haven't even been 100 participants; and b) I have yet to see such a title disputed. Space Channel 5? Mario 64? Seems to be an equal number of fors and againsts - so we'll duke it out with them later.

I didn't read all 8 pages of posts, I'll admit that :)

[Arcade Antics]

Half of the list still needs the boot? Alrighty... here goes. I propose we lose the following:

Attack of the Timelord! (O2) - -
Axelay (SNES) - - - -
Baldur's Gate (PC) -
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bonk's Revenge (TG-16) -
Boulder Dash II (Commodore 64) - - -
Cannon Fodder (Amiga, others) - - -
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) - - -
Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PSX)
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - -
Centipede (7800) - -
Chrono Trigger (SNES)
Civilization (PC/PSX) - - -
Columns (Genesis)
Combat (2600) -
Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - -
Dark Wizard (Sega CD) - - - -
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy)
Doom (PC) - - - -
Dracula X (PCE Duo)
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) -
Dune II (PC) - - - -
Elite (C64) - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fantasy II (SNES) - - -
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - -
Final Fantasy VII (PSX) - - - -
Final Fight (Sega CD) - - -
Fool's Errand, The (Mac) - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - -
Galaga (7800) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
Goldeneye 007 (N64)
Gran Turismo (PSX) - -
Gran Turismo 3 (PS2) - -
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - -
Half-Life (and all subsequent mods) - - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
King's Quest (PC) - -
Landstalker (Genesis) - -
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES) -
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) - -
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - - -
Lemmings (Amiga, others) - -
Little Computer People (C64) -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Microsurgeon (Intellivision)
Paradroid (C64) - -
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others) - - -
Shadowrun (SNES) - - -
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) - - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) -
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga) -
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) - -
Warcraft 2 (PC) -

[le geek]

Okay second round of cuts by me, I'm pretty sure I didn't vote against these yet...
Again, some of these were hard to vote against and I'm not trying to piss off anyone, but let's get this list down to 100 then we can hash it out :)

Cheers,
Ben


APB (Lynx) - - - -
Blazing Lazers (TG-16)
Bubble Bobble (NES/SMS/PSX)
Centipede (7800) - -
Columns (Genesis)
Dreadnaught Factor (Intellivision,/5200) - -
EverQuest (PC) - - -
Final Fight (Sega CD) - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - -
Galaga (7800) - - -
Gauntlet (NES) -
House of the Dead, The (DC) - - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) -
King's Quest (PC) - -
Legend of Zelda: Oracle Series (Game Boy Color) - - -
Little Computer People (C64) -
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) - -
Mechwarrior (PC) -
Metal Slug X (Neo-Geo) - - - -
Metroid (NES) - - -
Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - -
MUSHA (Genesis) -
NHL 94 (GEN) - -
Parasol Stars (TG-16) - -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast)
Planescape: Torment (PC)
Populous (PC)
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX) - - -
RC Pro-Am (NES) - -
River City Ransom (NES) -
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - -
Shadowgate (NES) - -
Shadowrun (SNES) - - -
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - -
Skaterock (C64) - - -
Skool Daze (C64) - - -
Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) - - - -
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga) - - -
Street Fighter Alpha 2 (PSX) - - -
Super Bomberman 2 (SNES) - -
Super Mario Sunshine (Gamecube) - - - -
Tekken 3 (PSX)
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) -
Tomb Raider (many) - -
Valkyrie Profile (PSX) - - -
Wasteland (C64) -

[Charlie]

How many people who are voting against the Oracle Series (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) have actually played them? They're easy the best handheld adventures ever made.

[TheRedEye]

I'm with Charlie, this list is pissing me off because we're getting strikes against games that obviously haven't been played. I got someone to ADMIT that a few pages back. I suggest that strikes are not valid without an explanation.

[le geek]

For the record I own and have played to completion both Zelda Oracle games and enjoyed both very much. My favorite Zelda's are LOZ and OOT.

I haven't played Pokemon Puzzle League and didn't vote for or against it. I do have Tetris attack tho...

I'm sure that several games that have temporarily been booted from the list will get debated properly when we get the list down to 100.

Cheers,
Ben

[Kid Fenris]

Okay, here's my second batch of suggested dismissals. I'm fairly sure that I didn't vote for any of these on my first pass. And for the record, I actually like most of them, but something's gotta go.

Attack of the Timelord! (O2) - - -
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES) - - - -
Columns (Genesis) - -
Contra (NES) - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - - -
Dragon's Lair (3DO/Jag CD/CD-i) - - - -
Food Fight (7800)
Fool's Errand, The (Mac) - - - -
Fortune Builder (ColecoVision) - - - -
Galactic Attack (Saturn) - - - -
House of the Dead, The (DC) - - - -
Hunter (Amiga) - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - - -
Jumpman (C64) -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) - - -
King's Quest (PC) - - - -
Lemmings (Amiga, others) - - -
Little Computer People (C64) - - -
Lords of Thunder (Duo)
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox) - - -
Marble Madness (NES/GEN) -
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES)
NHL 94 (GEN) - - -
Night Stalker (Intellivision) -
Oregon Trail (Apple II) - - -
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) - -
Point Blank (PSX)
Rainbow Islands (NES/PSX) - - - -
RC Pro-Am (NES) - - -
Return Fire (3DO/PSX) -
Scorched Earth (PC) -
Shadowgate (NES) - - -
Slime World (Lynx) - - -
Space Quest IV (DOS) - - -
Space Taxi (C64) -
Starflight (Genesis/Amiga) - - - -
Tekken 3 (PSX) -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) - -
Test Drive II: the Duel (C64/Amiga/others) - -
Times of Lore (C64, Amiga) - -
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) - - -
Tomb Raider (many) - - -
Ultima Online (PC) - - -
Virtua Fighter 2 (Saturn) - -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) -
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC) - -
Ys Book 1 and 2 (TG-CD) - -


I'm with Charlie, this list is pissing me off because we're getting strikes against games that obviously haven't been played. I got someone to ADMIT that a few pages back. I suggest that strikes are not valid without an explanation.

This doesn't really bother me, since it's clear that we'll get the chance to defend games and suggest their reinstatement (in place of other games, naturally) once the list is down to a hundred titles.

For the present, I think it's best if everyone just votes quick and dirty. We can wait until the top 100 to commence ranting about how we couldn't possibly leave out Dino Riki because it's the Citizen Kane/Star Wars/Meet the Feebles of video games and that no one will take the list seriously if such a masterpiece isn't included.

[NE146]

How many people who are voting against the Oracle Series (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) have actually played them? They're easy the best handheld adventures ever made.

I've played them. I went from Ages -> Seasons first. Then Seasons-> ages. Played in full.. 100 friggin %.

I quite honestly think the first Zelda for GB (or Zelda DX) is better. Ages/Seasons just seemed too... well, linear.

[Charlie]

I think everyone needs to answer honestly when it comes to voting out games. If you haven't played it, don't vote against it.

My doubts about how good this list is going to be have slightly improved now that I know some games will get a second chance. The Oracle series, for example, or Yoshi's Island for the SNES.

[Charlie]

In defense of the following games that are on the brink of elimination.

Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - - -
I think this should make the list because it is the best handheld Castlevania. Everything good about Symphony of the Night, which is making the list in a landslide, is represented in Circle of the Moon. The two Castlevania games that have come since are not without huge faults. The worst thing that I can say about Circle of the Moon is that it is too dark to see on a standard GBA. But that problem means nothing now that the SP is out and the GBA Player is a month away.

Centipede (7800) - - - -
I really can't defend this game. I think Centipede should make a top 100 list except for the fact that there really isn't a good port of it on any home system.


Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy) -
It's not close to getting eliminated and I think it will make the list, but I just wanted to say that this is the best hand held game ever. Bring on the new one. Now.

House of the Dead, The (DC) - - - -
Not a defense, but I just want to say that I actually enjoyed Typing of the Dead more.

Mario Kart 64 (N64) - - - -
If we're going strickly on four player battle mode, then maybe it should be on the top 100. I still think it's got a jerky framerate.

Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - - -
If we're going to put a version of Ms. Pac Man on here, then it should be the SNES version.

Yoshi's Island (SNES) - - - -
I think this is the most underrated SNES game. It's a platformer, but it has a lot of variety. And trying to get 100 on each level, which should feel tedious, isn't at all. I don't even find the crying baby Mario annoying.

[buttasuperb]

Metal Slug 3 is gone. Dumb.

Kid Icarus is gone. Ridiculous.

At least Twisted Metal 2 is still there.

Baseball Stars 2 on the Neo Geo is far superior to the NES game.

DDR MAX? Is that a joke?

This list is about to not be represented by any Street Fighter game? :hmm: Turbo, Super Turbo, and Third Strike should all be on the list. Hell, even Alpha 2 or 3 should make it.

Sam n Max should also be on this list.

Time to go search ebay for Grim Fandango

[Captain Wrong]

My votes against the following:


DDR MAX (PS2)
Final Fantasy II (SNES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Gran Turismo (PSX)
Gran Turismo 3(PS2)
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES)
Zelda Ocarna of Time (n64)
Madden 2003 (PS2/GCN/Xbox)
Mario Kart 64
Metroid (NES)
Metal Gear Solid (PSX)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) - -
Super Mario Kart (SNES)
Super Mario World (SNES) - - -
Super Punch Out! (SNES)

And YES I have played all of the above. I'm voting against them because either A) I don't feel they are worthy of Top 100 status or B) There are sequels on the list which are close enough we really don't need them both, IMHO.

I'll debate the following:

Metal Slug 3 is worthy and a much better game than 1.

Street Fighter should be represented.

And I propose adding/re-adding the following:

(sorry if I'm duplicating anything, I haven't kept up with this post.)

DoDonpachi (Saturn/PSX import)
Space Invaders (many)
Puzzle Bobble (many)
Doom (PC)

More I'm sure, I can't think of them now, gotta take another look at what's up and what's not.

[TheRedEye]

Time to go search ebay for Grim Fandango

Then my work here is done.

*flies away into the clouds*

[WiseSalesman]

DDR MAX? Is that a joke?

The fact that you don't like it does not automatically make it crap. I'm sure I can find quite a few people in our forum du jour who would agree with its placement on this list.


This list is about to not be represented by any Street Fighter game? Turbo, Super Turbo, and Third Strike should all be on the list. Hell, even Alpha 2 or 3 should make it.

You're a die hard fighting game fan, but a lot of us aren't. I agree at least one street fighter needs to be on the list, but not four. Pick the best one or two, the rest are derivative.

And, to charlie and theredeye, I have played both seasons and ages. I own seasons, borrowed ages. I like Link's Awakening better, I really didn't care for these much at all. I didn't vote against either of them yet, but I may before the time comes. Just letting you knwo in advance that I HAVE played them. I wouldn't vote against anything I haven't played. On the other hand, I wonder if butta has even TRIED DDR MAX....

[buttasuperb]

If I wanna dance, I'll go to a club.

No, I haven't played any DDR game. I never said it was crap either.

But I can find more than 100 games I would rather play than DDR, I can guarantee that.

At least 2 Street Fighters should be on that list. One old and one new.

Where is Mortal Kombat 2?

Oh well, it's your list, I've made my points and I'm outtie.

[Raedon]

I just want to say that I'm very glad that I don't work with some of you in real life.

http://home.cablelynx.com/~tsouthern/no.gif

[Ascending Wordsmith]

My girlfriend loves DDR Max. Everytime we go to her brother's house, she always pops it in. Me? Yes, I've tried it and I'm not too keen about it. I didn't vote for a strike against DDR Max because I dismissed it after one try. I will not try it again... ever. My current mission is to go to her brother's house and smash that goddamn game.

[Captain Wrong]

For those wondering why more regulars haven't chimed in on this, well, there could be several reasons including A) there's a lot of posts in this thread to weed through B) there's a lot of pissing and moaning in those posts defending game X or trashing game Y C) some of us might not want to get into this "how dare you say ____ doesn't belong" type of shit D) confusion with what exactly is trying to be accomplished here.

I tried to read through all these 9 pages of posts and I'm still unclear if this is our personal favorites of all time, games we think are most importaint of all time, or what. Seems like everyone has their own idea of what "Top 100. Ever." is supposed to mean.

I can recognize the importaince of a lot of games I'd rather have teeth pulled than play. I also fully recognize that my own top 100 list would probably not appeal to anyone other than myself.

So, whatever. I did my part and put in my little suggestions. Good luck wrestling with this monster, DP. And some of you really need to chill out. Passion is good, but this isn't the written in stone for all the ages top 100 and all other games are crap list.

Captain Wrong, out.

[Charlie]

I think I would like DDR games more if I was any good at them. This poor white boy ain't got no beat. Still, I think a music game should be on the list. I think Samba De Amigo would be a good choice... that is if you count playing it with the Maraca controllers. I still need a set myself. One of these days I'll get around to finding a pair. But my friend Craig has a set and I'll be damned if it's not a blast to play it.

[ubersaurus]

A rythm game is on there....
Vib Ribbon is the best game in that genre if you ask me 8-)

[Keir]

More votes off:

Attack of the Timelord! (O2)
Legend of Zelda, The (NES)
Marble Madness (NES/GEN)
Prince of Persia (Apple II, Amiga, others)
Star Raiders (5200/Atari 8-bit)
Tomb Raider (many)
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II)
Yar's Revenge (2600)

[anagrama]

I think everyone needs to answer honestly when it comes to voting out games. If you haven't played it, don't vote against it.


So you've played all of the 251 games you voiced an opinion on on page 4?

If so, could you tell me why Hunter (Amiga) doesn't deserve a spot in the top 100?

[Arcade Antics]

I'm sure that several games that have temporarily been booted from the list will get debated properly when we get the list down to 100.

Cheers,
Ben

See, Ben gets it.

We need to pare the list down to 100. At that point it's much easier to manage the add/drop business.

[portnoyd]

For those wondering why more regulars haven't chimed in on this, well, there could be several reasons including A) there's a lot of posts in this thread to weed through B) there's a lot of pissing and moaning in those posts defending game X or trashing game Y C) some of us might not want to get into this "how dare you say ____ doesn't belong" type of shit D) confusion with what exactly is trying to be accomplished here.

A, B, and C. From my end, anyway.

Suggest maybe you take the list of 251, and split them into lots of 10, do, like, one a day. Sure it'll take a month, but you can attack the shorter lists easier. Instead of someone saying game X in the 4th position on the list is great, while someone esle says game Y in the 167th position is not. You'll be able to garner clear cut boots and keeps. Any questionables can wait until the end of the 251 cycle, where they are lumped for a few more days of bitching.

dave

[bargora]

I only voted against three games because because on the list, those were the games that I had played AND that I didn't think deserved top 100 billing. I will refrain from throwing strikes based purely on genre, hardware, or reputation.

NOTE TO JOE: I withdraw my strike against Dreadnought Factor. I had voted against it because it was too slow. I thought it was too slow because I started from the first level, which my cat can beat, and did not play long enough to get to the hard parts. I have now seen that things pick up a bit in the later stages. :D

Oh, and it looks like Street Fighter is still represented on the list -- by Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge! LOL

[IntvGene]

Suggest maybe you take the list of 251, and split them into lots of 10, do, like, one a day. Sure it'll take a month, but you can attack the shorter lists easier. Instead of someone saying game X in the 4th position on the list is great, while someone esle says game Y in the 167th position is not. You'll be able to garner clear cut boots and keeps. Any questionables can wait until the end of the 251 cycle, where they are lumped for a few more days of bitching.


I agree that we need to get some headway here, and think this is a good idea. This list needs more people to vote, or to be divided into more manageable parts that we can deal with separately.

I also agree with the Captain on part D. To me, TOP 100 means top in a wide-range of categories, including graphics, orginality, playability, etc. But, it just doesn't seem like we are all on the same page...

Hey, but if nothing else is accomplished here, we've turned Bargora on to the wonders of Dreadnaught Factor. :)

[digitalpress]

UPDATED!

Down to 173 titles.

Keep the strikes coming, and be prepared for the defense of your favorite games that are not on the list!

[Nature Boy]

For those wondering why more regulars haven't chimed in on this, well, there could be several reasons including A) there's a lot of posts in this thread to weed through B) there's a lot of pissing and moaning in those posts defending game X or trashing game Y C) some of us might not want to get into this "how dare you say ____ doesn't belong" type of shit D) confusion with what exactly is trying to be accomplished here.

A, B, and C. From my end, anyway.

Suggest maybe you take the list of 251, and split them into lots of 10, do, like, one a day. Sure it'll take a month, but you can attack the shorter lists easier. Instead of someone saying game X in the 4th position on the list is great, while someone esle says game Y in the 167th position is not. You'll be able to garner clear cut boots and keeps. Any questionables can wait until the end of the 251 cycle, where they are lumped for a few more days of bitching.

dave

I think we're better off sticking with Joe's plan - if only because we'd end up spending too much time debating the right plan and we'd never get around to making an actual list.

As far as CaptainWrong's post:
(a) There's really no need to weed through any posts yet. We're only supposed to be voting out the ones we don't think are top 100 games. People defending their favourites are jumping the gun methinks. If/when Civilization gets it's fifth vote I'll be ready with a rebuttal - but I'll wait until we're at that stage before ... rebutting :)

(b)(c) See (a). Besides, half the posts under any topic fall under this category :D

(d) I think Joe has addressed this concern right from the first post. I'm sure he's keeping *that* one up to date so that you don't have to wade through if you don't want to. Of course I should probably let him say that.

Remember people: stick with the program. Lets get down to 100, and don't be voting for something you haven't played. And don't bother accusing somebody of not having played a game they voted against - tastes differ.

[ManekiNeko]

"Oh, and it looks like Street Fighter is still represented on the list -- by Night Warriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge!"

I sure hope it stays there. I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want it removed... it's one of those rare fighting games that combines spectacular audiovisuals with a rock solid game engine. Before the Darkstalkers series, you had to pick one or the other... you couldn't have both in the same game.

JR

[Kid Ice]

Another round of strikes from me. No explanation forthcoming; yes I have played all the games.

STRIKE:

Gauntlet (NES)
Impossible Mission (c 64)
Nights (SAT)
Sega Rally 2 (DC)
Shenmue (DC)
Tenchu (PSX)
Times of Lore (C64)

Also, I noticed that Tony Hawk is done as a series. I suggest the same for Gran Turismo. (I would argue that the 3 GT games bare more similarities than the 4 Hawk games, not to mention that all 3 GTs are outstanding enough to be listed individually, IMHO)

ICE

[portnoyd]

Port nerfs your favorite games!

Baldur's Gate (PC) - -
Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA) - - - -
Columns (Genesis) - - -
Combat (2600) - -
Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - - -
Crystal Castles (2600) - - - -
DDR MAX (PS2) - -
Dracula X (PCE Duo) -
Dragon Warrior IV (NES) - -
Gran Turismo (PSX) - - - -
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - - -
Hunter (Amiga) - - -
Ico (PS2)
Impossible Mission (C64) - -
Incredible Wizard, The (Bally Astrocade) - -
Intelligent Qube (PS1) - - - -
Jumpman (C64) - -
King of Fighters '98 (Neo Geo) - - - -
Little Computer People (C64) - - - -
Mars Matrix (DC) - -
Mike Tyson's Punch Out (NES) -
MUSHA (Genesis) - -
NightWarriors: Darkstalkers' Revenge (Saturn) -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) -
Paradroid (C64) - - -
Parasol Stars (TG-16) - - -
Phantasy Star IV
Pinball Dreams (Amiga) -
Planescape: Torment (PC) - -
Planetfall (Apple II, PC, others) - - -
Radiant Silvergun (Saturn, Import)
Sega Rally 2 (Dreamcast) - - - -
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) -
Sentinel, The (C64) -
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - - -
Skaterock (C64) - - - -
Skool Daze (C64) - - - -
Slime World (Lynx) - - - -
Sonic CD (Sega CD)
Star Fleet I (Atari 8-bit, also available for PC) -
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis)
Suikoden II (PSX) -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN) -
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) - -
Tenchu: Stealth Assasins (PSX) - - -
Test Drive II: the Duel (C64/Amiga/others) - - -
Tetris Attack (SNES) - -
Ultimate Wizard (C64) - -
Unreal Tournament (PC) - - -
Utopia (Intellivision)
Vagrant Story (PSX)
Valkyrie Profile (PSX) - - - -
Vib Ribbon (PSX) - -
Wasteland (C64) - -
Wizardry: Proving Grounds Mad Overlord (Apple II) - - -
Xenogears (PSX) - - -

[Charlie]

I vote against the following games... none of which have any votes against them.

Ico (PS2)
Secert of Mana (SNES)
Halo (X-Box)
Nights (Saturn)
Samauri Showdown 2 (Neo Geo)
Tony Hawk series (various)

[bargora]

Port nerfs your favorite games!
d00d, unc001!!1!

*6ukk4k35 p0r7n0yD*

[digitalpress]

UPDATED!

We're down to 159 games now.

One note: I certainly agree with Charlie and a few others that you shouldn't vote a game OUT just because you haven't played it. Imagine your surprise years later when you finally try a game like Paradroid or Wasteland and realize that it's one of the greatest games you ever played. I can also see the point of voting off games you haven't played so as to escalate your personal top 100 but I think ultimately that's counterproductive. Either way it's impossible to police so we'll address these things and scrutinize much more carefully when we've got 100 and it's time to do some replacing!

[Eternal Champion]

Sorry to say, I can't take seriously a TOP 100 list that doesn't have Metroid but has Metroid Prime, and has Phantasy Star IV instead of II, as great as IV is...
And, frankly, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Arcade Antics]

Sorry to say, I can't take seriously a TOP 100 list that doesn't have Metroid but has Metroid Prime, and has Phantasy Star IV instead of II, as great as IV is...
And, frankly, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"WHA' HAPPENED?"
Remember:


Keep the strikes coming, and be prepared for the defense of your favorite games that are not on the list!

e.g., list gets down to 100 games. Then you suggest adding Metroid and dropping ______. (fill in the blank with whatever game you'd like to see go to make room for Metroid.)

See? Easy as pie. Piece of Cake. :)

[Charlie]

Why no Metroid but Metroid Prime? Simple: Metroid Prime is an instant classic, the best game of 2002, etc. Metroid is a washed out relic that really wasn't all that fun to begin with.

[Charlie]

@DP: This are not strikes... this is me trying to rally strikes against a few games. Please don't count these unless I haven't previously voted against them.

WHY YOU SHOULD VOTE AGAINST THE FOLLOWING GAMES.

Centipede (7800) - - - -
It really doesn't belong in a list that's all about the top 100 games ever made. Centipede is a timeless classic that is still fun to this day, but the 7800 version, like every other home version, lacks that certain something.

Columns (Genesis) - - - -
This is a dull, boring action puzzler. A more fitting game to make the list would be Puzzle Fighter, which is somewhat similar but much more intense.

Contra (NES) - - - -
I don't think Contra should make the list because it's a 30 minute special. It's one of those games you beat and then put away for years. It's a great game. It's a timeless classic. It's not one of the best 100 games ever made.

Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - - - -
I really don't care for this game... I enjoyed Gunstar Heroes so much more. Pains me to do this, but I must cast a strike against it. It's good, it's not top 100 material.

Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - - - -
It's a fun game, but it's not one of the best 100 games ever made. It's not even one of the 50 best RPGs ever made. It's just sort of there.

Gauntlet (NES) - - - -
This is a crappy, bastardized version of the original arcade classic. Fact is if a home version of Gauntlet must be on the list then it should be Gauntlet Legends for the Dreamcast.

Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - - - -
Honestly I liked Vice City more.

Jet Grind Radio (DC) - - - -
It's an ok game, but it's not top 100 material. Being the first game to have Cel-Shaded graphics (or one of the first games... I think Wacky Races for the DC actually came out first) shouldn't qualify a game for the top 100. There have been hundreds of games that have had more historical innovations.

Lemmings (Amiga, others) - - - -
It's an innovative puzzle game that mixes the brain-bending genres in a neat way, but it's not one of the 100 best games ever made.

Marble Madness (NES/GEN) - - -
The home games were not good translations. It's not the same without a trackball. It stinks.

Ms Pac-Man (7800) - - - -
There are better home versions of Ms. Pac-Man.

Oregon Trail (Apple II) - - - -
I hated this game growing up for a lot of reasons, but mostly because not only was this boring piece of shit the only video game they would let us play in school, but they FORCED us to play it. I really HATE this game.

RC Pro-Am (NES) - - - -
It's just a dull game. I didn't like the physics or anything about it.

Shadowgate (NES) - - - -
I liked it but I found Deja'vu or Uninvited better.

Ultima Online (PC) - - - -
I always found Ultima games dull but I tried this one because someone told me it was different. Yeah it was... it was even more boring.

[Arcade Antics]

Why no Metroid but Metroid Prime? Simple: Metroid Prime is an instant classic, the best game of 2002, etc. Metroid is a washed out relic that really wasn't all that fun to begin with.

??? Metroid Prime was the best game of 2002?

GTA:Vice City blows Metroid Prime away. LOL

And I'll take Metroid over Prime any day of the week. Especially on a Thursday. ;)

[buttasuperb]

Why no Metroid but Metroid Prime? Simple: Metroid Prime is an instant classic, the best game of 2002, etc. Metroid is a washed out relic that really wasn't all that fun to begin with.

Better games for 2002

Ikaruga
Metroid Fusion
GTA Vice
Madden 2003
Harmony of Dissonance

Probly more, but my memory don't work.

[AB Positive]

Let me blast off a few titles:

Civilization (PC/PSX) - - - -
Grand Theft Auto III (PS2) - - - -
Lemmings (Amiga, others) - - - -
RC Pro-Am (NES) - - - -
Unreal Tournament (PC) - - - -
Yoshi's Island (SNES) - - - -

and put my vote-off for a few more:

Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy) -
Goldeneye 007 (N64) -
Halo (Xbox) - (I can't stand this game in single player, but I love multi-player. I can't justify it for top-100 though)
Kaboom! (2600)
Lunar: Silver Star Story (Sega CD) - - (love this game, can't justify top-100 though)
Sega Rally Championship (Saturn) - -
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Tetris Attack (SNES) - - -


there we go, this should help push things along.

I see final fantasy 7 got the axe. *sigh* My favorite RPG. Oh well.

-Adam G

[digitalpress]

UPDATED.

At 140 titles now.

[Arcade Antics]

*bump* :)

[AB Positive]

I guess I can vote a bit more...

Baldur's Gate (PC) - - -
Contra III: Alien Wars (SNES) - - - -
Gran Turismo 3 (PS2) - - - -
Legend of Zelda, The: Ocarina of Time (N64) - - - -
Mechwarrior (PC) - - - -
Wipeout XL (PSX) - -
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter / Balance of Power (PC) - - - -

and it's getting harder and harder to actually vote on things now. All of these are great games but it's down to the nitty gritty now.

-AG

[Nature Boy]

I'll add another strike: DDR Max. It's a good genre but not top 100 material IMO.

We're definitely down to the nitty gritty. There are games on there I haven't played that I don't think belong but I won't vote for 'em 'cause I haven't played 'em. Maybe that's why the voting came to a halt?

Or maybe people are still too worried about getting games *back* ...

(BTW: I finally started playing Metroid Prime and I'd definitely have to rank it above Metroid and GTA: Vice City)

[digitalpress]

UPDATED.

135 titles.

C'mon, a LOT of you haven't participated yet. Look at the list again. Surely there are games on here that you've played and in your opinion do not belong on a "Top 100 Games Ever" list. Let's get this thing down to 100 so we can start replacing titles - passionately - with our favorites that are missing!

[Arrrhalomynn]

if you insist:

I can't possibly call these games bad, but I certainly wouldn't place them in my own top 100 list.

Chrono Trigger (SNES) -
DDR MAX (PS2) - - - -
Donkey Kong aka Donkey Kong '94 (Game Boy) -
Final Fantasy III (SNES)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX) - - - -
Goldeneye 007 (N64) -
Guardian Heroes (Saturn) - -
Halo (Xbox) -
Legend of Zelda, The (NES) - -
Legend of Zelda, The: Link to the Past (SNES) - - -
Metal Gear Solid (PSX) -
NHL 94 (GEN) - - - -
Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn) - -
Phantasy Star IV (Genesis) - - -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast) -
Point Blank (PSX) -
Saturn Bomberman (Saturn)
Soul Calibur(DC)
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO) - - - -
Streets of Rage 2 (Genesis) -
Super Mario Kart (SNES) -
Super Monkey Ball 2 (Gamecube) -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN) - -
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO) - - -
Toe Jam & Earl (Genesis) - - - -
Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 - -
Twisted Metal 2 (PSX) -
Wipeout XL (PSX) - - -

[AB Positive]

*prepares an impassioned FF7 speech*

-AdamG

[Ed Oscuro]

Too far gone for me to even WANT to try, but I might anyways. That said, I'm not putting my name to this.

Gobs of obscure...stuff...no Shinobi or Shadow Dancer games...no Super Castlevania IV...and that's just from the letter S! You can tell I'm an action guy but there's something wrong when all of these games are completely missing. At least Super Metroid is in there (I missed it the first time looking through).

Also--no Makaimura titles whatsoever? Give me a break, you KNOW that Demon's Crest is one of the best action games of its type (somewhere between Castlevania SotN and the "Castleroids," and Super Metroid)

Now for the - votes:

Castlevania: SotN/Nocturne in the Moonlight, goodbye. That game still hasn't made me sit down and actually play through more than 2 hours into the game.

Rondo of Blood (PC-Engine Super CD-ROM^2, NOT Turbo Duo damnit!) is getting a - also. And yes, I own two copies, one of them sealed. I do know that game.

Mars Matris (DC) If this is even 100% as good as the arcade version, it's still not good enough.

Super Mario Kart didn't catch my eye back when I first saw it as the N64 did, and I'm usually quite open to old games that just happen to have worse graphics. No, that sort of pseudo-3D stuff on the Super Fami doesn't cut it for me.

I'd like to add every single one of those Atari arcade-to-console ports, but since I don't play the system I won't. That said, seeing an entry for "Robotron (7800)" gives me a headache x_x

[hydr0x]

mh i don't think Secret Of Mana and Chrono Trigger should be in there, SoM is good, but a game with a sometimes so crappy AIi (i don't know, have u all only played this with 3 real persons?) can't be in the all-time top100 and Seiken Densetsu 3 is just better, it deserves the spot more
Chrono Trigger is imho one of the most overrated games in history, nothing against the story, gameplay and so on, but the graphics, well they are just to small, replace it with Tales Of Phantasia

you should replace monkey island 1 with 3, really

Secret Of Mana -
Chrono Trigger -
Street Fighter II Turbo -
Half-Life -
Monkey Island 1 -
Planescape Torment -
Return Fire -
Tales of Phantasia +
Seiken Densetsu 3 +
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (PC) +
Descent 2 (PC) +
Dark Forces (PC) +
Monkey Island 3 (PC) +
Diablo (PC) +

[Kid Ice]

This is a tough part of the process, for this reason:

Out of those 130+ games, I've probably played about 90 of them. So I don't know what to choose to eliminate at this point. I've already voted off the ones I don't think are good enough.

For example, let's say I want to - Jumpman because it's not as good as the other games on the list that I've played. What's to say it's not better than the games I haven't played, such as Baldur's Gate or FF3?

I would suggest, at this point, a change in strategy. Start a new thread with the existing list. Let everyone pick their "top 25" from this list. Use everyone's top 25 to compile, say, a top 75 list. Then let everyone argue to get an additional 25 games added that have been eliminated. And there's your top 100.

ICE

[Ed Oscuro]

That sounds good, but digitpress said earlier "don't worry about the obscure titles" (I don't think FF3 is obscure, though, and it worries me that it's on a list when I haven't played it. I don't put my name to things easily!) I want to give his method a chance.

[digitalpress]

*cough*

I'm gonna give this "kill round" one more pass. Once this thread drops off the page again I'm going to cast my votes and leave you with 100 titles. I think everyone has waited in this holding pattern - ready to defend their favorite - for long enough!

So last call. We've got 135 on the list, 35 have to go! If you HAVEN'T voted already, now is the time!

[Nature Boy]

I'll step back up to the plate again. Time to be ruthless! And no explanations this time - I'm too lazy.

Baldur's Gate (PC)
Combat (2600)
DDR MAX (PS2)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX)
Food Fight (7800)
Mars Matrix (DC)
NHL 94 (GEN)
Night Stalker (Intellivision)
Street Fighter II Turbo (SNES/3DO)
Super Street Fighter II Turbo (3DO)
Tekken 3 (PSX)
Terranigma (SNES import)
Xenogears (PSX) - - - -

[bargora]

More votes off the island:

Bubble Bobble
Point Blank
Venture

Votes cast against because there are two games in the series on the list. I'm haphazardly picking one game of the series, so feel free to redistribute these "nay" votes elsewhere in the series if I'm completely off here.

Le Chuck's Revenge: Monkey Island II
Shining Force (Gen)
Tetris Attack

[Kid Fenris]

A few more from me. Man, I can't believe I'm voting off Centipede . . .

Centipede (7800) - - - -
Combat (2600) - - - -
Dragonstomper (2600) -
Phantasy Star Online (Dreamcast) -
Populous (PC) –
Qix (5200/NES)
Shining Force CD (Sega CD) - - -
Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN) - -
Wasteland (C64) - - -

[k8track]

Games I think should not be in the top 100:

Centipede (7800)--Although the 2-player mode makes it cool and unique, it's not top-100 good. I prefer the 5200 version much more.
Donkey Kong ('94) (GB)--Again, not top-100 good, although cool. It's got tons of new boards but nothing terribly special. I like the basic Colecovision version better.
Mike Tyson's Punchout (NES)--I definitely don't think this should be on there. I know it's a cult favorite, but I've never cared for it. There's nothing particulary special or innovative about it.
Night Stalker (Intellivision)--It pains me to vote this off, as I think it's a very cool game, but not top-100 cool. It doesn't represent the Intellivision as well as Burgertime and Utopia.
Super Mario World (SNES)--I don't think it's particularly special.
Yars' Revenge--I've never understood the cult status of this game. I didn't like it at the time, and although I do like it much better now, it's not top-100 good.

Games in danger of being voted off that I'd like to defend:
Wonderboy III: The Dragon's Trap (SMS)--Simply the best SMS game there is. This one should stay.
Incredible Wizard (Bally)--Voting this one off would be sacrilege! It's still wonderfully fun to play today.

The "I Can't Believe You Voted These Games Off They Should Be Restored" list:
Metroid (NES)--One of the all-time greats and still stands up today no matter what anyone else says. Brilliant; please bring back!
Rygar (NES)--Another spectacular game that really shows off the NES. Please restore! I'll fight for these two. These games made me love the NES.

Apologies all around for stepping on toes.

[Ascending Wordsmith]

It appears that this page dropped from the first page. In fact, I had to go to page three just to find it. Okay, Joe, slash the list to 100 and see what develops. :-D

[hydr0x]

mh ok will be similar to my last post

i don't think Secret of Mana should be in there, Seiken Densetsu 3 is just better, period. If SoM is in there, SD3 also has to be

Planescape Torment is not even worth the all-time pc-rpg top20, it's so faaaaar away from an all-time top100, really

monkey island 2 is better than 1, and 3 also is

i think Tales of Phantasia is superior to Chrono Trigger, so if CT is in there ToP should also be

Diablo (PC) is definetly missing in there, it was revolutionary and offered the most long-time-fun back then, and still

Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (PC) is also something i cannot understand it's not included, many people think this is the best adventure ever, only Monkey Island 2 is a true competitor

Descent (PC) was also revolutionary and is still fun

Dark Forces (PC) best atmosphere in a fps ever ;)

[digitalpress]

I'll second the Monkey Island statement and replace the original with "2", but I can't comment or disagree with the other statements. Thanks!

[Drexel923]

Let me just re-post my arguement along with a little backup.




I would like to 'trample' on super mario 64.

O_O :bad-words:

I can't believe Mario 64 got tossed...that game rocks...and I think it certainly should be on list. For being one of the first fully 3D games it had great control, gameplay, and fun that took a good while to be surpassed by another like it. Plus the awe factor alone when it came out should be enough. I still remember getting it on launch and being speechless as I played. This list is an atrocity. (sp?)

oh well...such is life.

I second this feeling. This game was the groundbreaker for all good 3d based action/adventure games you see today. I thought (and still think) this is one incredible game, and definitely deserves to be on the list.

If i'd have to pick a game to swap out it would probably be monkey ball 2. Don't get me wrong, I love that game, but I don't think that down the line I'll keep on coming back to it. After a while the excitement just fades. Also Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana are in my top ten all time game list so I would hope they stay, but of course this isn't just my list.

[IntvGene]

Ok, I'll give her a go...

I don't understand why we have Jumpman and Ultimate Wizard here for C64. Can't we choose the better one and add another great C64 game, Paradroid instead? I mean, these two games are very similar. Paradroid should be on there for its originality alone. The gameplay is stunning, and its a more than just a shoot-em up or action game, it's a combination of both, and from a design standpoint, it is far superior to the other one-dimensional games on the C64. The sound is good, the control is great as you can play and do all the actions just from a one button joystick. The graphics were outstanding for its time.

Terranigma is the only import I saw. I think that if this is the case, we should just remove it and call this a non-imports list. I am sure that I can argue about other imports that deserve to be there, but I think it only makes things more complicated.

Tekken 3? Yawn. Not worth it.

The PC choices are definitely weird. We are missing some great PC games, and have things like Planescape: Torment. That's ridiculous. While I am not sure that Diablo deserves to be there. I think that we're missing some great games (I am not a PC expert, so won't try to suggest them). OR, since we only have a three PC games, let's get rid of them altogether.

[buttasuperb]

Metal Slug 3 is better than Metal Slug

Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kid Icarus, Kic Icarus