Prediction: The Xbox won't age well as a console.

[boatofcar]

In my mind, the Xbox will be the least fondly remembered of consoles, at least within the past two generations. Between peoples' animosity towards the relative size of the console and the lack of memorable exclusive titles (Halo excepted), I think the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

Thoughts?

[roushimsx]

In my mind, the Xbox will be the least fondly remembered of consoles, at least within the past two generations. Between peoples' animosity towards the relative size of the console and the lack of memorable exclusive titles (Halo excepted), I think the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

Thoughts?

Strongly disagree. The system generally had the best versions of multiplatform titles (with only a small number of exceptions), plenty of excellent exclusives (Crimson Skies? Forza? Rallisport Challenge 2? Ghost Recon 2? Oddworld Stranger's Wrath? Ninja Gaiden Black? Unreal Championship 2? Chronicles of Riddick?!?! ...well ok, there was a PC port of that) and some nice niche titles that keep the hardcore gamer demographic nice and happy (Gunvalkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Metal Wolf Chaos, Breakdown).

People will always shit on the mammoth size of it (...and the PS3) along with the duke controllers, but I think it'll come out looking pretty good overall a few years down the line.

[s1lence]

No way, the original will always be remembered as the system that launched MS as a gaming company not just one that makes operating systems and office apps.

I think the gamecube is the one that will be least well aged and the PS2 as being the one everyone remembers 20 years from now. Kinda like the Atari 2600 is to many of us.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Thoughts?

Not with ya on this one. I think I have more games on this system than any other. It's weird, but I never got into the PS2... and only bought a GC 7 or so months ago. I still play it more than any other system I have, and will get many more hours of use out of it. I just wish MS still supported it (like Sony with the PS2) because I'm not ready to upgrade to a 360.

And I agree with s1lence... I'd put my money on the GC as being the odd one out.

[Poofta!]

yeah, sorry, i think youre completely off base on this.

the box had the best visuals of the bunch, best miltiplayer (even if it is defunct online now) and many many absolutely amazing game.

not to mention that it is easily modable without even lifting a screwdriver and can play all your cartridge games.

i have 2-3x more games on the box than on the ps2 or gc. (however it is changing now that im looking at acquiring some ps2 rpgs).



oh yeah, KotR/Ninja Gaiden

/thread

[Trade-N-Games]

Great system with a ton of great games. I think it will be remembered however goodluck finding one that will work. I see them almost everyday at my store with a dead hard drives.

[MachineGex]

I have about 75 titles on the original XBOX and that is after slimming my collection down. I think it will age fine, my 4 year old son is having a blast with it.

I am worried about the 360 more than the original xbox. I say that because the 360 seems to break. A lot of "experts" expect all of the 360s to have problems because of their design. In ten years, when microsoft stops repairing the 360s, how are you gonna play the games? I thought the wide-spread reports of 360s breaking was hype, but when my 360 died this weekend, I was shocked. I have only 150 hours on that system. I have never had a system break like the 360. It just stop one day for no reason. I never play for longer than a few hours at a time.

I am currently looking at the PS3 closer. The blueray victory and the fact that 360s break so much, it's making me re-think my situation. I know alot of people are waiting for MS to get the "bugs" out of the 360, I wish I would have waited.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I am currently looking at the PS3 closer. The blueray victory and the fact that 360s break so much, it's making me re-think my situation. I know alot of people are waiting for MS to get the "bugs" out of the 360, I wish I would have waited.

I completely agree. We need a Blu-ray player, and it looks like we'll be buying a PS3 before a 360. Although I had an optical drive (the samsung) go out on my original xbox, making it my first ever console to take a shit. So I had to drop another 179 to buy a 2nd one. I think microsoft has been in the software business so long, they have no idea how to making a fucking console that doesn't break. Kudos to Nintendo and Sony for getting hardware manufacturing right... something that gamers have always taken for granted.

[neuropolitique]

Jade Empire you robot bastard

[Bojay1997]

In my mind, the Xbox will be the least fondly remembered of consoles, at least within the past two generations. Between peoples' animosity towards the relative size of the console and the lack of memorable exclusive titles (Halo excepted), I think the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

Thoughts?

Strongly disagree. The Xbox ranks as my most played system of the last generation and frankly, it was such a good system that I still play games on it and sometimes can't tell the difference between it's games and some of the stuff I own for the 360. It had good controllers and fast loading times, as well as the power to do first person shooters as well as a good mid-range PC. I only wish Microsoft hadn't been so quick to pull the plug.

I believe someone could very easily do a line of $10 or even $20 budget titles (stuff that either didn't get released but was finished or Japan only stuff that was fully in English) on a standalone cardboard display at Target, Best Buy, Walmart and Costco and you could sell 5,000 - 10,000 or more copies of each title even today. Unfortunately, I had a group of investors and a former Xbox developer ready to move on just such a venture, but Microsoft has basically taken the position that they will use the Xbox originals outlet as the only source for original Xbox games and they have no interest whatsoever in supporting the original Xbox at all.

[KeyserSoze61]

It's easily my favorite console from last gen -- the built in HD, strong specs, excellent controller all add up to a better experience. I've been picking up games left and right for dirt cheap, as this is the time to get the games. Most places are clearancing out these games, and the library is pretty solid.

When you add in the strong Live experience, I will quite fondly remember the original Xbox.

[FlufflePuff]

I too will disagree with this one. Of the current/last gen consoles I would think the Dreamcast or PS3 will be the least fondly remembered. Not that these consoles don't have merit or great games, but their history will be remembered as a whole. Dreamcast being the console that killed Sega, coupled with their rapid exit from the market, will in the long term leave the masses either ignorant of the console or indifferent to its existence.

The PS3 is a different subject as the history isn't written on the system yet, but I think that its early struggles coupled with the general animosity towards Sony will leave the PS3 as a second tier console. Again, history always favors the winner, and their is still plenty of time for Sony to pull it together.

[DefaultGen]

I freakin' love my Xbox. Best multiplats, and for some reason used games are cheaper than the other consoles. It's a win-win console and if it gets less popular cheaper games for me :)

[Moo Cow]

You know something? I agree completely. I don't care about which has better graphics, I don't really get into a lot of FPS's, and that controller was an oversized piece of shit.

I think the PS2 was probably the best system last generation, but lately I've been playing quite a few Gamecube games.

[ncman071]

i really enjoy my ps2, but the original xbox is awesome. like a previous poster said, most of the multiplatform releases were generally better at least graphically on the original xbox. although i do like the controller better on the ps2 and some of the ps2 games seem to have better gameplay especially on some of the sports titles. however, the xbox is a great system. i think i own around 45 games or so for it.

[Leo_A]

I liked the exterior design of the console, and the Controller S was my favorite from the last generation. And it had a ton of great exclusives beyond the Halo series, such as Project Gotham Racing 2.

I think it will be fondly remembered, I know it will be by me. Was my favorite console of last generation, ahead of the Dreamcast, Playstation 2, and GameCube.

[swlovinist]

I have about 75 titles on the original XBOX and that is after slimming my collection down.

I did the same. Here is why the xbox WILL BE REMEMBERED

1. Launch of MS into the console market
2. hundreds of games in the library, many still very playable
3. Many games look great on a HD(not many consoles can say that)
4. Many system link games that support 16 player offline play
5. Can be modded very easily and can be transformed into the ultimate reto box!

Just a few. Sorry bro, the Xbox will be remembered. It wasnt supported like the PS2, but it was a good system and it has its followers

[s1lence]

For the comment about the 360's being hard to repair in 10 years, I disagree. Many people, including some on this site, have figured out how to fix them.

I view it like the nes with the blinking screens or the PS1's that have the lasers go out. People will find a way to fix them. Now, the DRM could pose to be a problem though to Xbox Live Arcade fans.

Back on topic, the Xbox 1 had the second largest library of the last generation, and one that was larger then some of the generation before that. It had the in most cases the better looking ports and the ability to emulate games on it was an added bonus.

[djbeatmongrel]

I have to agree with op on this. I personally thought the xbox graphics were meh (always seemed washed out compared to Gamecube and PS2). The both controller models left something to be desired. When it comes to games there really wasnt much out of the exclusives that left that ever lasting impressions.

Xbox may sit well with other people but i can do without for the most part but neuro did bring up a good point, Jade Empire is the shit. Thats probably the only memorable game out of the few that i played through that had thoroughly impressed me and i have been wanting to play it again.

[emceelokey]

Disagree.

To me the GC will be the least fondly remembered. Of the last generation I have the most games on the Xbox. The majority of my ps2 and GC collections are games that are exclusive to those systems. I think out of the three last gen systems the XBox was the most influential to the current gen.

- Hard Drives / Internal Memory
- Pushed console online gameplay and created a standard to it.
- Downloadable content
- User custom soundtracks

I think MS really thought forward with the Xbox where the PS2 was more of an update to the PSX and Nintendo pretty much seemed to hate anything that was progressive. My only problem with the Xbx and how it ended was that, at best it probably hit half of it's potential. I think they could have went another 2 years with it but business wise it didn't make sense for them to continue to produce that system and for that system when the 360 came out. The way I look at last gen is like this. The GC was for the Nintendo games and that's pretty much it. The PS2 had a lot of quirky games and a lot of support from third parties but a lot of games that became big on that system ported over to Xbox but not all blockbusters (Capcom games), but the Xbox was the everyday / hardcore gamer console. They had the shooters (90% of the library) but they also had games like Gun Valkrye, Panzer Dragoon Orta, KORTR, and stuff like Silent Scope 3 and Steel Batallion.

[Half Japanese]

As above, so below (double post).

[Half Japanese]

I disagree as well. To many folks, the Xbox was sort of a continuation of the Dreamcast, being a non-Sony hardcore gamer's machine. It sure as hell had a rough start with "the Duke" and a pretty shitty launch lineup (outside of Halo), plus every geek's knee-jerk negative reaction to anything put out by Microsoft but it succeeded admirably in the face of all of that. If you're one of those people who just skims the most popular games for a system then of course you're going to say "dur...it's all shooters and racing games," but if you dig deeper you'll find it was home to TONS of first-rate sleeper hits that sites like Hardcore Gaming 101 will have articles on 5-10 years from now. I'm talking Deathrow, Voodoo Vince, Toejam & Earl III, Phantom Crash, Phantom Dust, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, etc. And that's not counting some of the more mainstream excellent exclusives.

In addition to that, the Xbox will be remembered for the following:

- First console to feature in-game 5.1 surround sound
- First console to feature HD resolution graphics (720p, 1080i)
- First streamlined online setup for consoles (streamlined is the key word here)
- First console to be truly worthwhile to hack/mod

It may not have the library of the ps2, but it smokes the Gamecube in every way in my opinion.

edit: emceelokey added the points about the hard drive and custom soundtracks which I can't believe I overlooked (not having read his post before posting myself). In addition to this, Xbox Live had messaging capabilities in-game...something Sony is just now getting around to implementing on PSN.

[bangtango]

Xbox is the best system to play sports games on since the Sega Genesis. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Why?

-The hard drive alone is big enough to let you save Franchise modes, created players, user records, custom rosters, settings and whatever else your heart desires for every single sports game in the Xbox library. Then you still have room left over for saves from other games or whatever else you want to cram on the HD. Try pulling that with a PS2 or Gamecube memory card. You'll be lucky to fit half a dozen sports games on a typical Gamecube memory card. Most PS2 memory cards aren't much better. Plus the loading times on a typical Xbox sports title are much faster than the GC or PS2 equivalent.

-Just a better library of football, baseball, basketball and hockey titles. The Microsoft originals (like NFL Fever or NBA Inside Drive) were pretty good, up until MS pulled the plug on that division.

-What's Gamecube got in its sports library that the Xbox ain't got? Home Run King and NBA Courtside, neither of which are blockbusters. Oh and a "rare" Sega Sports college basketball game that happens to cost next to nothing on the Xbox and probably plays better on it.

-What's PS2 got in its sports library that Xbox ain't got? A pile of Sony produced 989 Sports games and their whole run on the PS2 was mostly a joke. Pretty much any good sports game that hit the PS2 also hit the Xbox.

-Xbox had it all in the sports department. EA's catalog. Sega's catalog. Microsoft's own catalog. Konami's catalog (NFL Primetime & NBA Starting Five, etc). Midway's stuff (which admittedly I don't like). Even a small selection from 3DO and Acclaim before both went under. Activision had a street basketball game and of course the Tony Hawk stuff, if you want to classify skating games as "sports."

Can't argue with that. All playable on a controller that reminds me a lot of the Dreamcast, which was another good system for sports titles. This is pretty cut and dry, in my opinion.

However, I don't think there is a definitive answer to boat's topic. Opinions vary, even though most here seem to think the Xbox will be fondly remembered years from now. It all comes down to what type of games you like to play. Simple as that.

[Jackattack]

I don't think I can say too much that hasn't already been said, but if it makes you feel better I think I agree with you, but probably because of my situation (and maybe yours).

- I'm guessing here, but I bet most of the people that love the xbox so much, also have had it for a long time and purchased "the better copy" of each game on it. I got my xbox 3 months ago and saw no need to re-buy games I already had on my GC and PS2.

- I have yet to get into multiplayer gaming on consoles... the PC all the time, but not so much on the xbox, mainly because I was too late. :-p So at least for me, there goes that aspect.

- I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was. Please remember that this is my opinion, but when I look at the NES and SNES I remember how fun the games where and the great times I had, not that it had amazing 16-bit graphics, or superb stereo sound and what ever else Nintendo rattled off back then. It's the songs that I still play in my head and the wonderful story that accompanied them plus I can assure you that SMRPG looks a lot better in my memory then on the screen because graphics fade with time. HD, 5.1, DLC, a hard drive they don't make you love a game (or the console it's on), it's the games that do that, and in my opinion (remember most of my games where played on GC and PS2) the xbox had few original games that drew me in and made me love them... hence getting my xbox 7 years late.

- The xbox had a lot of stuff going for it, better online, slighter better graphics, better sound, easily hackable, a hard drive, DLC, but at least for me, the games just didn't do it, even adding in the exclusives that I have and played, and that's what important.

Maybe I missed all the hype that surrounded each game, maybe if I was waiting in line for my copy of Halo 2 at midnight like I did with my Wii and GC I would have other memories tied to the console, but sadly I don't. But based on it's merits alone, what will make me love the console 20 years from now? In my opinion the games, and I think I missed out.


P.S. I think I lost some of my message in my rant earlier. One, let me say that I love my xbox and if it wasn't for SSBB I'd be playing it right now. Two please remember that the original idea of this post was more to explain why some people may not have the fond memories of the xbox, rather than say that the reasons why you love the xbox are wrong.

One last thing, for my age, I really didn't experience the SNES like most of you did, I missed the hype, the waiting in line for that next big game, and only had a few games (7) before I started collecting, but it's at worst my 3rd favorite console, and I have about 15. Even though I missed what some would consider a very important part for loving a console, I completely loved it solely for it's amazing library of games. Apply this to the xbox and the games didn't win. Maybe it's sorta the same for you OP.

[boatofcar]

Great discussion guys; keep it up!

I don't discount the technological advances the Xbox made during the last generation of consoles. It was the most advanced console feature and spec wise, no question. It just seems that in my opinion, in ten years, there will be more people with fond memories of playing the PS2 or GC than the Xbox. Of course, it's just my opinion :)

[diskoboy]

Why does everyone like to rag on ol' Duke?

I love burly controllers, having grown up on the hand cramping 2600 controllers.


And maybe it was because they reminded me so much of the Dreamcast controllers...

[roushimsx]

- I'm guessing here, but I bet most of the people that love the xbox so much, also have had it for a long time and purchased "the better copy" of each game on it. I got my xbox 3 months ago and saw no need to re-buy games I already had on my GC and PS2.

- I have yet to get into multiplayer gaming on consoles... the PC all the time, but not so much on the xbox, mainly because I was too late. :-p So at least for me, there goes that aspect.

- I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was.

(snip)

Maybe I missed all the hype that surrounded each game, maybe if I was waiting in line for my copy of Halo 2 at midnight like I did with my Wii and GC I would have other memories tied to the console, but sadly I don't. But based on it's merits alone, what will make me love the console 20 years from now? In my opinion the games, and I think I missed out.

No, I'm quite sure if you'd waited in line for Halo 2 that you'd have much more bitter memories about the system. :) Given that you're more of a single player gamer (hey, me too!), you'd probably find the game underwhelming and uninspired. A couple of neat set pieces and scripted events here and there, but for the most part incredibly generic and repetitive. :(

Given that you just recently purchased the system, you've got a whole bunch of good exclusives out there to hunt down and try out. No doubt you'll have a different opinion of the system after a year or so of experiencing more of what the library has to offer, but even if you only played cross platform games, you'd probably grow to love the Xbox versions more for little reasons. Maybe for the progressive scan, maybe for the much faster game saving and loading (vs. PS2), or maybe for some downloadable single player addon material (like an extra level or two for Splinter Cell).

Hell, even if you don't want to play multiplayer online, LAN parties with Xboxes were all the rage. It was the console that brought the concept of the LAN party to the masses (sure, it wasn't the first...but it popularized the fuck out of it). If you had a buddy with an Xbox, I'm sure you'd be able to find a handful of system link-capable games to play with each other (co-op!).

[Leo_A]

- I also disagree with everyone saying that technical specification are what makes you remember a console. Who cares if it was the first with 5.1, it's standard now. (Stupid Wii, but I love you) Who cares about HD, repeat previous exception. The same can be said about the inclusion of a hard drive or DLC, it doesn't improve what really matters when you remember how great a console was.

Who was? They're just talking about how it was ahead of the competition, and that stuff can translate to better versions of the same games that were on the PS2 and GameCube, and often did just that. And it can directly benefit the games and make them more fun. I don't think he was saying it should be remembered for being first in those areas, but how advanced it was and that it would age better than the competition. I'll remember Project Gotham Racing 2 down the line because of not only how great of a game it was and how fun it was, but the great times I had online with it through Xbox Live, racing to my favorite songs due to playing ripped cd's off it hard drive, and the two great booster packs it had that added entire new locations and cars to the game and extended its life several times.

All that was made possible by the advancements MS made over the competition a generation ago.

[emceelokey]

For some reason I think 10 years from now people will like the GameCube more mainly because of the Nintendo games. That's why I personally have to look at the technological aspects of the systems. The GameCube lived... LIVED off of old franchises. Yes 90% of Nintendo made games were great but that's their job but those games were built specifically for the GC and utilized the hardware to the best they could have. Now when it came to cross platform games, I would never even consider the GC becase the disc was so small that they wuold actually omit some content from games just to get it on that system. You're not going to have the same experience now with those multi platform games now but let me put this in context. If, let's say Madden '05 was coming out and you wanted the game and had all of the systems what would you choose. The GC version which will not have online play, probably lesser graphics than even the PS2 version, and will require you to buy a 251 block memory card if you want to create a custom roster, and will probably miss a few extras compared to the PS and XBox version. The PS2 version which will probably crawl when loading your custom rosters and every menu you go into, and have a lackluster online mode (if any) or the Xbox version which eliminates all of those problems. Remember this is the release week and all 3 versions cost $50. To me the choice is easy.

The Hard Drive on the Xbox was completely groud breaking in the console world and what MS started has now become a standard in todays consoles. The first time I played Tony Hawk with a custom soundtrack I was totally blown away. No system ever did that before. Then I look at the GameCube at the time and I think what the hell is Nintendo doing. They're already on generation late with using cd's, now they use this small disc (which was cool until the novelty wore off) and they have this controller that's not even suitable for a fighting game and doesn't have the "3" buttons (clicking sticks) plus the games are too far and few... TO me the GC just seemed to be catching up then at the end they kept adding these attachments and teying to make you use all these gadgets like the E-Reader, connection cables, gbas, mics and just some nonsense and I just remember the GC as a struggling system the whole time.

That's the way I see it. So to try to get back on subject, I think the GC will be more fondly remembered with time because that system was built on fond memories of Nintendo's past. From my first hand experience I will probably go Xbox, DC, PS2, GC. I think the Xbox will age great but I'll still say that the GC will go for mor in eBay 10 years from now than the Xbox.

[RyanMurf]

Ill let my AVATAR speak for itself.

[Bojay1997]

Great discussion guys; keep it up!

I don't discount the technological advances the Xbox made during the last generation of consoles. It was the most advanced console feature and spec wise, no question. It just seems that in my opinion, in ten years, there will be more people with fond memories of playing the PS2 or GC than the Xbox. Of course, it's just my opinion :)

My issue with the GC is that literally every major franchise has been or will be moved onto the Wii in a much better version. The PS2 is great for niche stuff, but for everything that was multiplatform or dual platform, it was always the weakest version, often not even as good as the GC version. It is completely incapable of playing FPS games well and had very few American or European style RPGs. I have to say that I have always hated the DualShock and it has never been comfortable in my hands. The GC and Xbox controllers are much better designs for my large hards.

The Xbox did a lot of games and a lot of genres very well. The only major exception to this would be Japanese RPGs, but frankly, I have played way too many of those in my lifetime and I would rather play Elder Scrolls or Fable any day. From a pure time spent playing perspective, the Xbox beats the other two consoles for me hands down. I think I played Halo more in the first week I had the Xbox than I played my PS2 in the entire first 18 months I had it after launch. Frankly, I can't remember any of the games I own on the Gamecube (actually, I think I'm around 10 short of a complete collection now) and it wasn't a hard decision to pack it away in the weeks before I got my Wii at launch.

[Jackattack]

Hell, even if you don't want to play multiplayer online, LAN parties with Xboxes were all the rage. It was the console that brought the concept of the LAN party to the masses (sure, it wasn't the first...but it popularized the fuck out of it). If you had a buddy with an Xbox, I'm sure you'd be able to find a handful of system link-capable games to play with each other (co-op!).

I'll give you that, xbox lan parties were fantastic and a lot of people would have had some great memories from them. As of right now I'm having a problem with the statement that I may find some classic games on the system. It's not that I don't think I will it's just that of of all the games that were mentioned in this thread as being great or memorable or sleeper hits, I'm interested in one of them (not including the ones I already have) Like I said, I love my xbox and will be constantly looking for new games for it, but I just don't agree with the statement that most of the people here made that the GC and PS2 will be less fondly remembered then the xbox. Part of that is because of my love for Nintendo and the other part is the length of time I had my PS2 vs. my xbox. Maybe it will change later on though.


Who was? They're just talking about how it was ahead of the competition, and that stuff can translate to better versions of the same games that were on the PS2 and GameCube, and often did just that. And it can directly benefit the games and make them more fun. I don't think he was saying it should be remembered for being first in those areas, but how advanced it was and that it would age better than the competition. I'll remember Project Gotham Racing 2 down the line because of not only how great of a game it was and how fun it was, but the great times I had online with it through Xbox Live, racing to my favorite songs due to playing ripped cd's off it hard drive, and the two great booster packs it had that added entire new locations and cars to the game and extended its life several times.

All that was made possible by the advancements MS made over the competition a generation ago.

Sorry Leo_Ames for doing this as it's really not important to this thread and I do agree with your point that some of the people here were talking about how technical aspects makes games better, but half Japanese 2 posts above me said:


In addition to that, the Xbox will be remembered for the following:

- First console to feature in-game 5.1 surround sound
- First console to feature HD resolution graphics (720p, 1080i)
- First streamlined online setup for consoles (streamlined is the key word here)
- First console to be truly worthwhile to hack/mod

[outsider]

I agree that the XB will be the least memorable. There were so few games that interested me - Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Otogi 1+2 and not much else. The updated versions of Silent Hill 2 and Fatal Frame 1+2 were nice, but they offered little more than what was present within the original PS2 versions. I feel about the same when considering the 360. A few great games that force me to keep the system, but that's about it.

[graciano1337]

If it isn't remembered for the games, it will be remembered for how easy it was to mod. Sorta like how the DC got surge of attention even after Sega pulled the plug.

[Leo_A]

Yeah, you got me there. :)

[bcks007]

Strongly disagree. The system generally had the best versions of multiplatform titles (with only a small number of exceptions), plenty of excellent exclusives (Crimson Skies? Forza? Rallisport Challenge 2? Ghost Recon 2? Oddworld Stranger's Wrath? Ninja Gaiden Black? Unreal Championship 2? Chronicles of Riddick?!?! ...well ok, there was a PC port of that) and some nice niche titles that keep the hardcore gamer demographic nice and happy (Gunvalkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio Future, Metal Wolf Chaos, Breakdown).

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 was not very exclusive, it got a PS2 and gamecube port.

[boatofcar]

Ill let my AVATAR speak for itself.

You modded your Xbox to look like a 360?

[blue lander]

I only recently got an Xbox and I've really been enjoying it. The library of worthwhile games on the system is large (albeit a little narrow, mostly FPSs).

I think the system will age well, unless it becomes completely superceded by the Xbox360. They both basically play the same genre of games, I could see it being forgotten if it gets lost in the 360's shadow.

[bangtango]

If, let's say Madden '05 was coming out and you wanted the game and had all of the systems what would you choose. The GC version which will not have online play, probably lesser graphics than even the PS2 version, and will require you to buy a 251 block memory card if you want to create a custom roster, and will probably miss a few extras compared to the PS and XBox version. The PS2 version which will probably crawl when loading your custom rosters and every menu you go into, and have a lackluster online mode (if any) or the Xbox version which eliminates all of those problems. Remember this is the release week and all 3 versions cost $50. To me the choice is easy.

In the defense of the Gamecube and PS2, Madden 05 (or any of the Madden's) play fine on there when the game is in progress.

But yeah, the better graphics, faster loading times and hard drive capabilities make all the difference in the world.

I have eight sports games on the Gamecube (football/basketball) and have them spread across 2 memory cards, both of which are chock full just from the Franchise mode in each game. I don't have enough blocks remaining to save the settings or my user records in half of those games. That is asinine.

Meanwhile, I've got 20-25 franchise modes going on right now on Xbox, maybe more, spread across numerous sports titles. Custom rosters, seasons, franchises, tournament modes, created players, user records, settings, some games with 2 simultaneous franchise modes. The whole nine yards. That hard drive has got a ton of room left. I could have twice the amount of stuff on there and still be left with lots of space.

The low price of the Gamecube may have been appealing to some people but not to a guy like me who had to go out and pay for 2 memory cards just to hold a fraction of the content that the Xbox hard drive can. That's $40-50 more right there. It got to the point where I quit buying GC sports stuff since I wouldn't have room for them on a memory card anyway and didn't feel like turning a $10 used game into a $30-35 purchase (by getting another memory card). No thanks. Let the next sucker fall for that.

[skaar]

Great system with a ton of great games. I think it will be remembered however goodluck finding one that will work. I see them almost everyday at my store with a dead hard drives.

Care to sell a bunch with dead HDs in a bulk order? :D

Seriously, I have 3 Xboxes in my house - all media players/emulator machines. I think I played about 5 Xbox games ever... everything I did was PS2.

[Poorfamily]

Maybe I'm out of place with this comment but just the fact that you can soft-mod the thing and switch in a huge hard drive gives the Xbox a whole new life. After getting a 360 I went hog wild on my old Xbox and now play it probably more than any of my other consoles.

[Push Upstairs]

I say it will age gracefully based on its emulation ability alone.

[roushimsx]

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 was not very exclusive, it got a PS2 and gamecube port.

Both Gamecube and PS2 version are the same and they take place 4 years prior to and set up the events for the Xbox (originally Xbox and PC, PC version got canceled) game. The Gamecube/PS2 campaign ties in with Chaos Theory while the Xbox game is more of a sequel.

The Xbox version was developed by Ubisoft Montreal and received great reviews.

The Gamecube and PS2 version was created from the ground up by Ubisoft Shanghai and got more average reviews.

I personally found the Gamecube version to be nearly unplayable thanks to a horrid framerate and some truly god awful mission designs and gameplay decisions. Tedious cluster fuck mess of a game. The titles are also different to reflect their relation to each other:
Ghost Recon 2: 2007 First Contact
Ghost Recon 2: 2011 Final Assault

Additionally, the Xbox received an exclusive sequel/stand alone expansion/whatever, "Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike".

Going in, I had some pretty high hopes for First Strike, but I got a cold, hard lesson on just how much ass Ubisoft Shanghai was capable of sucking when they put their minds to it. Sure, I could have learned my lesson from their previous Splinter Cell cross platform ports or maybe from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon....but no, it cost me $18 and a couple of wasted hours to really fully understand. Anymore, I refuse to buy anything they develop.

Looks like a lot of people were bummed out with their take on Double Agent (Xbox 360/PS3/PC) and prefer to play the Xbox version (from Ubisoft Montreal) instead. Go figure!

[digitalpress]

Whoa, I thought this post was being sarcastic... was it?

Funny how differently people can see things. I would see it as the most memorable console of its era. My PS2 and GameCube were pretty much retired for awhile there, save for the first-party and RPG's (which XBox sorely lacked). Just about any title released across platforms was best on XBox. Built in hard drive. Solid online gaming (c'mon, really the ONLY system that did this well). And perhaps most importantly, upgradeable via mods. The XBox in my store is and probably will be for quite some time the MOST used system as it mods so nicely and emulates so well.

All of this is without even getting into the XBox first-party and/or exclusive stuff.

Then again, maybe the OP was just being sarcastic.

[ssjlance]

I see the XBox being remembered fondly. XBox Live has been amazingly popular, so it has that. The PS2 is going to be the one that is remembered most fondly, and the Gamecube will be remembered in a fashion similar to the Sega Master System; good games, but never quite captured enough people's attention.

And the Dreamcast will be remembered somewhat like the Neo Geo. Great arcade style games that only appealed to the hardcore demographic in the long run. Although, it won't be remembered for its outrageous price. What was it at launch? Somewhere around $250?

[Xizer]

In my mind, the Xbox will be the least fondly remembered of consoles, at least within the past two generations. Between peoples' animosity towards the relative size of the console and the lack of memorable exclusive titles (Halo excepted), I think the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

Thoughts?


Since I use Xbox Media Center on pretty much a daily basis to check the week's weather, stream copies of TV shows that just aired, watch movies and emulate the N64, PlayStation and any systems released before it...

You are wrong. Good day sir.

The Xbox is easily the best console ever released.

The PS2 will probably be the system least remembered. It's a fragile piece of garbage that breaks at the drop of a hat, it's got the worst versions of multiplatform titles, and the controller is a pile of ass.

[Lord of the Files]

The PS2 will probably be the system least remembered. It's a fragile piece of garbage that breaks at the drop of a hat, it's got the worst versions of multiplatform titles, and the controller is a pile of ass.

Wrong. Right, but insignificant. Wrong.

The Xbox DVD drive is notorious for breaking down.

Multiplatform titles? Yeah, Madden on Xbox blows all others out of the water. The GTA games were better on Xbox...when they finally came out. The only reason to pull the multiplatform card is because the Xbox exclusive list is pretty weak. Real weak.

The "pile of ass" comment is just plain stupid. The controllers on the PS2, Xbox, and GC were all serviceable. Of course we all have our preferences, and your mileage may vary based on what game you're playing.

[Rob2600]

Not with ya on this one. ... I'd put my money on the GC as being the odd one out.

I disagree:

1. How could the GameCube be the odd one out with huge hits like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Animal Crossing, Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Star Wars Rogue Squadron II, and all of the Zelda and Mario games (Golf, Tennis, Strikers, Party, Sunshine, etc.)?

2. GameCube games have some of the quickest load times I've ever seen.

3. I think the design of the GameCube will age better than that of the Xbox. I always found the Xbox to be cheap looking. Maybe it's the glossy black plastic that gets scratched too easily. It's also far too large.

4. The GameCube is more durable. YouTube - crash test consoles (xbox, ps2, gc) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JTZSqDfaNU) and YouTube - Console Damage Test! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVRJtqPRZhQ)

5. The GameCube had the best version of Soulcalibur II.

6. Beach Spikers is far better than Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball.

7. Kabuki Warriors. :)

[Xizer]

Wrong. Right, but insignificant. Wrong.

The Xbox DVD drive is notorious for breaking down.

Multiplatform titles? Yeah, Madden on Xbox blows all others out of the water. The GTA games were better on Xbox...when they finally came out. The only reason to pull the multiplatform card is because the Xbox exclusive list is pretty weak. Real weak.

The "pile of ass" comment is just plain stupid. The controllers on the PS2, Xbox, and GC were all serviceable. Of course we all have our preferences, and your mileage may vary based on what game you're playing.

When it comes to consoles, any title that was released on the PS2 or GameCube that was also released on the Xbox is going to be the superior version. Quit trolling. And of all the multiplatform games to pick to claim is the Xbox's only good multiplatform title, Madden? Madden is a piece of shit no matter what platform it's on.

Also, I don't know what planet you're living on, but the only DVD drives in the Xbox that are notorious for breaking down are the Thomson ones in the very early models. The PS2, on the other hand, was a Disc Read Error machine until the slim came out.

[Gabriel]

It will probably be just like the Dreamcast.

There will be a small segment of hardcore gamers who claim its the best thing in the whole world, and everyone else was just too stupid to see it.

As for the rest of the gaming world, the system is already rightfully discarded and forgotten.

[boatofcar]

Quit trolling.

Oh, the irony.

[Moo Cow]

When it comes to consoles, any title that was released on the PS2 or GameCube that was also released on the Xbox is going to be the superior version. Quit trolling. And of all the multiplatform games to pick to claim is the Xbox's only good multiplatform title, Madden? Madden is a piece of shit no matter what platform it's on.

Also, I don't know what planet you're living on, but the only DVD drives in the Xbox that are notorious for breaking down are the Thomson ones in the very early models. The PS2, on the other hand, was a Disc Read Error machine until the slim came out.

Just because he disagrees with you doesn't mean he's trolling.
Look at the NES> Notorious for breaking down and sitll remembered fondly.

[Push Upstairs]

Custom soundtracks are a gift from the heavens.

[j_factor]

I actually like all 4 last-gen consoles quite a bit. The bottom line is the games, and Xbox had some great ones. I don't like sports games, Halo, racing sims, or most western RPGs. A lot of people think that the Xbox library begins and ends with those games, but I've enjoyed a lot of other Xbox games. Although, it's not entirely true that multiplatform games were always better on Xbox. That's true for the majority of games, but there are quite a few exceptions.

Also, some of the praises given to Xbox are kind of weak. High def support? Xbox's HD support was very, very uneven. It has games that go all the way up to 1080i, but then it has a very large number of games that don't go beyond 480i. I don't understand why about 95% of Dreamcast games can do 480p but for Gamecube and Xbox that percentage is much smaller (and PS2 is pathetic).

[Oobgarm]

It will probably be just like the Dreamcast.

There will be a small segment of hardcore gamers who claim its the best thing in the whole world, and everyone else was just too stupid to see it.

As for the rest of the gaming world, the system is already rightfully discarded and forgotten.

Spot on with one exception: "rightfully" discarded and forgotten

It's got it's spot in gaming history, as pointed out by others above me, and it's library of exclusives will help it stand the test of time.


Quit trolling.

LOL LOL Oh my goodness.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I disagree:

1. How could the GameCube be the odd one out with huge hits like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Animal Crossing, Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX, Star Wars Rogue Squadron II, and all of the Zelda and Mario games (Golf, Tennis, Strikers, Party, Sunshine, etc.)?

2. GameCube games have some of the quickest load times I've ever seen.

3. I think the design of the GameCube will age better than that of the Xbox. I always found the Xbox to be cheap looking. Maybe it's the glossy black plastic that gets scratched too easily. It's also far too large.

4. The GameCube is more durable. YouTube - crash test consoles (xbox, ps2, gc) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JTZSqDfaNU) and YouTube - Console Damage Test! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVRJtqPRZhQ)

5. The GameCube had the best version of Soulcalibur II.

6. Beach Spikers is far better than Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball.

7. Kabuki Warriors. :)

We'll agree to disagree on this one. PS2 was definitely the winner of the last generation- to which there is very little argument about. But from my standpoint as far as features go and my own playing habits- The XBOX has seen a lot more mileage for me. Not saying the GC had less great titles- but one of the major draws of the GC was the Nintendo IP's- which I haven't gotten into since SNES and some of the N64 days. In fact the main reason I bought a GC was the resident evil games. I am aware of the vast amount of great titles, superior loading times, superior graphical capabilities, and the higher amount of magical fairy dust the GC has...

...But give me an HD (so I don't have to worry juggling memory cards), good FPS selection, a few good WRPGs (including the exclusive Star Wars titles), superior versions of most Tom Clancy titles, any GTA titles, and Half Life 2- and I'll be set.

I should have known better than to take Nintendo mafia bait. But it's really my fault for saying something negative about the Gamecube. But come on, the older I get the less I want to play: Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, Pokemon, Warrio, Luigi, or Yoshi based games. I don't dispute they're fun- but they're not me right now.

And while I'm pissing people off- I don't like anime either and JRPG's are mostly long interactive anime movies... and XBOX had fewer of those than any other systems. Which is another reason I like the XBOX. Big hair, large eyes, and too many cute grunts freak me out.

[Leo_A]

Also, some of the praises given to Xbox are kind of weak. High def support? Xbox's HD support was very, very uneven. It has games that go all the way up to 1080i, but then it has a very large number of games that don't go beyond 480i. I don't understand why about 95% of Dreamcast games can do 480p but for Gamecube and Xbox that percentage is much smaller (and PS2 is pathetic).

I bet percentage wise, they're very comparable. Only 2 out of my 30 GameCube games can't do 480p for example. And nearly all of my Xbox collection can do at least 480p. Not including the Playstation 2 of course, I don't think more than maybe 20% of my collection has progressive scan support there.

[j_factor]

I bet percentage wise, they're very comparable. Only 2 out of my 30 GameCube games can't do 480p for example. And nearly all of my Xbox collection can do at least 480p. Not including the Playstation 2 of course, I don't think more than maybe 20% of my collection has progressive scan support there.

Are there Gamecube/Xbox games that support progressive scan / HDTV without having the appropriate icon on the back? Only 9 of my 44 US Gamecube games are marked as progressive scan compatible. Similarly, just 19 of my 47 Xbox games are marked as HDTV.

[mailman187666]

as far as being remembered for its games library, I'd have to say that it may not age as well as PS2 or GC, but it should fair alright 20 years down the road. I get an idea of what the OP was talking about, and I think a lot of people made some strong points as to why it would age well also. For me personally, the original xbox won't really be as memorable as many other systems out there. Now the little "fix" i did to my xbox on the other hand should make it last for a loooong time for me.

[Lord of the Files]

When it comes to consoles, any title that was released on the PS2 or GameCube that was also released on the Xbox is going to be the superior version. Quit trolling. And of all the multiplatform games to pick to claim is the Xbox's only good multiplatform title, Madden? Madden is a piece of shit no matter what platform it's on.

I didn't choose Madden as the Xbox's only good multiplatform title. It was just the first example that came to mind of (a) a game that came out for all 3 systems and (b) a game that no one will care about in the long run. Kind of like all the Need for Speeds and Medal of Honors of the world. I mean, I'm supposed to be impressed because Xbox had the best version of Need for Speed? If not, what is that great multiplatform title that the Xbox had the best version of?

And when you say "superior" version, how "superior" are we talking here? There's a big difference between Donkey Kong on the VCS and Donkey Kong on the Colecovision. Is Burnout 3 that much better on the Xbox than the PS2?


Also, I don't know what planet you're living on, but the only DVD drives in the Xbox that are notorious for breaking down are the Thomson ones in the very early models. The PS2, on the other hand, was a Disc Read Error machine until the slim came out.

I live on the planet where the PS2 I bought in 2002 has outlived 2 Xboxes and one Xbox 360. With 100s of hours more play time and DVD use.


Madden is a piece of shit no matter what platform it's on.

Madden is "a piece of shit" and the PS2 controller is "a pile of ass". Why do I find your ability to communicate an informed, reasoned opinion a bit suspect?

[roushimsx]

Is Burnout 3 that much better on the Xbox than the PS2?

Depends on how much you care about slightly better graphics, much improved save times, and quicker load times. Slightly quicker load times, smoother framerates and drastically improved save times are three of the most common upgrades games would get in the Xbox releases, though there's other games (like Fatal Frame II and Burnout 2) that'd receive additional content that would never see release back on PS2 or Gamecube (though some would get ported back to PS2 in subsequent rereleases, such as MGS2 and Silent Hill 2).

Save times on the Gamecube are extremely peppy on average, but on PS2 they can be agonizingly slow. Thank god some games (like Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, and Sly Cooper) find creative ways to hide the loading/saving times, because even on smaller saves it's a pain in the ass.

Framerates can be spotty in PS2 and Gamecube versions of multiplatform games (particularly because most of them used the PS2 version as the basis for the GC version), though a couple of games came away looking really good (Gamecube version of Beyond Good & Evil and I hear the Gamecube version of Warrior Within?). Still, the majority were smoother are the Xbox.


Are there Gamecube/Xbox games that support progressive scan / HDTV without having the appropriate icon on the back?

Yes, but for the life of me I can't remember any examples off hand. It's something I didn't pay too much attention to since I never could get my dick beaters on a set of Gamecube component cables.

[Xizer]

I didn't choose Madden as the Xbox's only good multiplatform title. It was just the first example that came to mind of (a) a game that came out for all 3 systems and (b) a game that no one will care about in the long run. Kind of like all the Need for Speeds and Medal of Honors of the world. I mean, I'm supposed to be impressed because Xbox had the best version of Need for Speed? If not, what is that great multiplatform title that the Xbox had the best version of?

And when you say "superior" version, how "superior" are we talking here? There's a big difference between Donkey Kong on the VCS and Donkey Kong on the Colecovision. Is Burnout 3 that much better on the Xbox than the PS2?



I live on the planet where the PS2 I bought in 2002 has outlived 2 Xboxes and one Xbox 360. With 100s of hours more play time and DVD use.



Madden is "a piece of shit" and the PS2 controller is "a pile of ass". Why do I find your ability to communicate an informed, reasoned opinion a bit suspect?

I fail to see how my opinion isn't informed or reasoned. As someone who has used both a PS2 controller and played Madden, I am entitled to the opinion that one of them is a "pile of ass" and the other one is a "piece of shit."


What is the great multiplatform title the Xbox has the best version of? Hmm, let's see...

-Any driving game
-Any shooter
-Beyond Good & Evil
-Grand Theft Auto series
-I-Ninja
-Metal Gear Solid 2
-Mortal Kombat and other fighting series
-Prince of Persia
-Psychonauts
-Sonic series
-Star Wars games
-Tony Hawk series

[Rob2600]

give me an HD (so I don't have to worry juggling memory cards), good FPS selection, a few good WRPGs (including the exclusive Star Wars titles), superior versions of most Tom Clancy titles, any GTA titles, and Half Life 2- and I'll be set.

I guess that's why I like the GameCube better: I'm not into first-person shooters, RPG's, Tom Clancy titles, GTA titles, or Half Life. I'm into arcade-style games (Beach Spikers, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Wario Ware, Burnout 2, Soulcalibur II, Wave Race: Blue Storm, etc.).

If Nintendo ever releases a new home Star Fox game that's as great as Star Fox 64, I'll be set!

[Lord of the Files]

What is the great multiplatform title the Xbox has the best version of? Hmm, let's see...

-Any driving game
-Any shooter
-Beyond Good & Evil
-Grand Theft Auto series
-I-Ninja
-Metal Gear Solid 2
-Mortal Kombat and other fighting series
-Prince of Persia
-Psychonauts
-Sonic series
-Star Wars games
-Tony Hawk series

I'm still not seeing THE great multiplatform title that blew all others out of the water. Sonic series, honestly? Mortal Kombat? Say wasn't Rogue Leader a Gamecube game? By any shooter you mean like Gradius 5 or Ikaruga? Oh, never mind.

Microsoft's legacy in gaming:

-Halo
-XBLA
-broken stuff

[roushimsx]

Microsoft's legacy in gaming:

-Halo
-XBLA
-broken stuff

Somehow you're completely forgetting Mechwarrior 3, Crimson Skies (and its sequel), Forza Motorsport, Ages of Empires series, Close Combat series, Midtown Madness series, acquisition and dissolving of Digital Anvil, acquisition and dissolving of Access (makers of the best golf series ever), securing major exclusive games from Epic (Gears of War, Unreal Championship 2), and multiple other highlights.

But sure, you can just be a biased outsider and highlight that they published Halo, rolled out XBLA, and completely fucked up the Xbox360 hardware design in an attempt to be first to the market. I mean, who really cares about what Microsoft has actually done as a publisher or even in the realm of PC operating systems (DirectX was an eventual godsend after a few rocky releases)?

[Leo_A]

Are there Gamecube/Xbox games that support progressive scan / HDTV without having the appropriate icon on the back? Only 9 of my 44 US Gamecube games are marked as progressive scan compatible. Similarly, just 19 of my 47 Xbox games are marked as HDTV.

I haven't paid attention really to the logos on the back of my Xbox cases, but it's common for GameCube titles to not be shown as progressive scan capable, and there's several titles misidentified as supporting progressive scan that are actually 480i only.

I wouldn't go by the back of Xbox cases either, there seems to be a fair amount of mistakes such as a couple of the Midway Arcade Treasures titles being shown as Xbox Live enabled, but MAT2 lacks the labeling on the front cover near the top despite having the same XBL functionality as the other two. And after taking a quick look at a few titles just now, some don't even have the table on the back showing the feature listing that tells you if it supports higher resolutions and such, including F1 2001.

So if things like that are any indication of their accuracy and consistency, I bet a lot of titles may be missing their appropriate logos on the Xbox.

And I suppose my GameCube collection might be skewed a bit since as a Xbox owner, I went there most often for multiplatform releases. Most of my GameCube collection are the top titles like Nintendo's first party lineup and things like Resident Evil 4 (I don't own the other GC RE's that were 480i only though), besides Midway Arcade Treasures 1 and Pro Rally 2002, all mine support progressive scan. And that's no big loss, Pro Rally isn't very good anyways, and if I want to play MAT at 480p, I own the Xbox version which supports it.

Even the GameBoy Player is progressive scan.

[Lord of the Files]

But sure, you can just be a biased outsider and highlight that they published Halo, rolled out XBLA, and completely fucked up the Xbox360 hardware design in an attempt to be first to the market.

A biased outsider or an average consumer. Pull the average Joe off the street and ask him what MS has done for gaming....I think you'll more likely hear about Halo or his brother's dead 360 than Direct X.

But if you wish to accuse me of being biased because I've paid for 3 systems that ended up dying in less than a year, you're probably right.

Putting aside all arguments about software, I have to agree with the OP simply because I doubt very many original Xboxes will still be working in 5 years.

[ProgrammingAce]

Putting aside all arguments about software, I have to agree with the OP simply because I doubt very many original Xboxes will still be working in 5 years.

I'll take that bet, i've seen the hardware failure projections for the xbox1...

Joe 6-pack on the street isn't going to be playing xbox1 games 5 years down the road, so his opinion probably doesn't matter too much in this topic.

From a graphics standpoint, i think the xbox will stand up pretty well as time goes on. Better then the PS2, certainly. While Halo 2 looked like ass, Chronicles of Riddick and Ninja Gaiden show what the system is capable of.

It has a little something for everyone.
You like racers? Forza.
RPG? Baldur's Gate.
Flight? Blazing Angels.
Japanese FPS? Breakdown.
2D Platforming? Megaman.
Mech? Steel Battalion
Sims? Sims.
Shoot-em-up? Xyanide (thought i was going to miss that genre, eh?)

Just the fact that the system doesn't use memory cards will go a long way towards making the system popular.... And you really can't ignore the emulators or xbox media center.

[mercarian]

Honestly, I think that most of the new systems won't be considered "classic" like some of the current older systems. The Xbox on its own is a good system, with a good library of games. However, its also a technological system, and as time goes on people won't look to get one (ie its good, but people will look to get more advanced systems, as that what was cool about this system when it came out). This is all my own opinion of course. O_o

[Xizer]

I'm still not seeing THE great multiplatform title that blew all others out of the water. Sonic series, honestly? Mortal Kombat? Say wasn't Rogue Leader a Gamecube game? By any shooter you mean like Gradius 5 or Ikaruga? Oh, never mind.

Microsoft's legacy in gaming:

-Halo
-XBLA
-broken stuff

Okay guys, just trust me on this one. Ignore this guy. He's a 4-post troller. It's pretty sad that someone would take the time to troll the original Xbox but I guess some people are fortunate enough to have lives where they have incredible amounts of free time at their disposal.

[j_factor]

I haven't paid attention really to the logos on the back of my Xbox cases, but it's common for GameCube titles to not be shown as progressive scan capable, and there's several titles misidentified as supporting progressive scan that are actually 480i only.

I wouldn't go by the back of Xbox cases either, there seems to be a fair amount of mistakes such as a couple of the Midway Arcade Treasures titles being shown as Xbox Live enabled, but MAT2 lacks the labeling on the front cover near the top despite having the same XBL functionality as the other two. And after taking a quick look at a few titles just now, some don't even have the table on the back showing the feature listing that tells you if it supports higher resolutions and such, including F1 2001.

So if things like that are any indication of their accuracy and consistency, I bet a lot of titles may be missing their appropriate logos on the Xbox.

Well shit, how is one supposed to be able to tell then? Are there lists somewhere?


And I suppose my GameCube collection might be skewed a bit since as a Xbox owner, I went there most often for multiplatform releases. Most of my GameCube collection are the top titles like Nintendo's first party lineup and things like Resident Evil 4 (I don't own the other GC RE's that were 480i only though), besides Midway Arcade Treasures 1 and Pro Rally 2002, all mine support progressive scan. And that's no big loss, Pro Rally isn't very good anyways, and if I want to play MAT at 480p, I own the Xbox version which supports it.

I had an Xbox before PS2 or Gamecube (although I got all three within 6 months of each other). More of my multiplatform games are on Xbox, but there are a handful that I have on Gamecube because the GC version is slightly better. I have a mild OCD thing about making sure I get the best version possible, even when the differences are slight.

[Push Upstairs]

Is Burnout 3 that much better on the Xbox than the PS2?

I chose the XBOX version simply for the custom soundtrack, but then I already knew what I wanted to use for music before I even got the game.

[Lord of the Files]

Okay guys, just trust me on this one. Ignore this guy. He's a 4-post troller. It's pretty sad that someone would take the time to troll the original Xbox but I guess some people are fortunate enough to have lives where they have incredible amounts of free time at their disposal.

That's pretty funny. It's obvious from the responses to you calling me a "troll" earlier that you are the resident forum dunce. Every message board's got one.

A taste of your own medicine, perhaps?

[The 1 2 P]

In my mind, the Xbox will be the least fondly remembered of consoles, at least within the past two generations. Between peoples' animosity towards the relative size of the console and the lack of memorable exclusive titles (Halo excepted), I think the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

Thoughts?

Can't believe I missed this thread. Especially since I always check out Xbox threads. Anyway, like 99% of all the other people have said: you're wrong. Ok, thats harsh. You are of course entitled to your opinion but I bet people will still be playing games on Xbox live on the original Xbox for many many years to come, which will easily make it one of the most memorable consoles of all time.


Great discussion guys; keep it up!

I don't discount the technological advances the Xbox made during the last generation of consoles. It was the most advanced console feature and spec wise, no question. It just seems that in my opinion, in ten years, there will be more people with fond memories of playing the PS2 or GC than the Xbox. Of course, it's just my opinion :)

I think at this point you read your thread and realized that almost nobody else agreed with you. I wonder why:p


Whoa, I thought this post was being sarcastic... was it?

Funny how differently people can see things. I would see it as the most memorable console of its era. My PS2 and GameCube were pretty much retired for awhile there, save for the first-party and RPG's (which XBox sorely lacked). Just about any title released across platforms was best on XBox. Built in hard drive. Solid online gaming (c'mon, really the ONLY system that did this well). And perhaps most importantly, upgradeable via mods. The XBox in my store is and probably will be for quite some time the MOST used system as it mods so nicely and emulates so well.

All of this is without even getting into the XBox first-party and/or exclusive stuff.

Then again, maybe the OP was just being sarcastic.

There you have it from the man himself. And no, Boat wasn't being sarcastic. He was being dead serious. It would be akin to me saying one of the following: "the PS2 had the worst third party support", "Halo is the worst console fps" and "the Gamecube had the worst first party games". The difference is, I was being sarcastic. Too bad he wasn't.

[scooterb23]

I was being sarcastic.


TIMES FIVE!!!!!!!!1!!~~!1!!

[SegaAges]

I have about 75 titles on the original XBOX and that is after slimming my collection down. I think it will age fine, my 4 year old son is having a blast with it.

I am worried about the 360 more than the original xbox. I say that because the 360 seems to break. A lot of "experts" expect all of the 360s to have problems because of their design. In ten years, when microsoft stops repairing the 360s, how are you gonna play the games? I thought the wide-spread reports of 360s breaking was hype, but when my 360 died this weekend, I was shocked. I have only 150 hours on that system. I have never had a system break like the 360. It just stop one day for no reason. I never play for longer than a few hours at a time.

I am currently looking at the PS3 closer. The blueray victory and the fact that 360s break so much, it's making me re-think my situation. I know alot of people are waiting for MS to get the "bugs" out of the 360, I wish I would have waited.

Is now a bad time to mention that the hd dvd players also break very easily too?

[norkusa]

I was being sarcastic.


TIMES FIVE!!!!!!!!1!!~~!1!!

Don't know why, but I lol'd hard at that.

[The 1 2 P]

Don't know why, but I lol'd hard at that.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Thats why;)

[Rob2600]

No way, the original will always be remembered as the system that launched MS as a gaming company

Just like how the Odyssey will always be remembered because it launched Magnavox as a gaming company? :)

[norkusa]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Thats why;)

Heh, I know. I just thought it was a lot funnier than it should have been. ROFL

[Nionel]

This thread has been a very interesting read, I've been between the Cube and the Xbox for my primary console for last gen games, and I can say that this thread has helped me decide that I'll be focusing more on Xbox, even with it's lack of RPGs, Xbox has some good titles that the GC never got.

[demen999]

I will have to disagree. I had tons o fun on the xbox. Live was the shite, and fun as all hell. I am on the border of hating the PS2 out of all the last gen systems. The games were all the same (Yes GTA esp.), and most were crappy IMHO TIll this day, I have like 20 something PS2 games, and I didn't finish one! I loved the GC, well I'm sort of a nintendo fan :p
I hated the xbox at first, then it grew on me bigtime. So yeah...

[Richter Belmount]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library , 2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits. In my book most developers had avoided the Xbox console , they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library , however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

[Rob2600]

I agree with Boatofcar. Will the Xbox be forgotten by video game enthusiasts like us? No, of course not.


However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.


Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.


It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

[The 1 2 P]

When we compare the Xbox , I just don't think its a console that is as appealing as the PS2 or Gamecube. PS2 and Gamecube had most of last gens best games and we have to thank the support of the developers for that creating that library

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox. For starters, Gamecube only had 648 games compared to the Xbox's 950. I'll let you do the math on that one. As for the famous first party software on the cube, like all of Nintendo's other systems, the first party games on GC are really good. But the number of good first party games on the GC is not even a quarter of all the great games on the Xbox(I'm counting both first and third party here). And the Gamecube's first party and third party good games aren't even half of the Xbox's good games.


2 libraries full of mainstream and niche hits.

So the Gamecube got all the mainstream titles like Grand Theft Auto 3, GTA: Vice City, GTA: San Andreas, Burnout 3 and Revenge, Max Payne 1+2, Mortal Kombat Armagedden, Star Wars: Battlefront 1+2, Star Wars: Revenge of The Sith, Silent Hill 2+4 and hundreds more that I'm not going to name? Funny how I don't remember the Gamecube getting any of those mainstream titles. But I know which systems did: the Xbox and PS2.



In my book most developers avoided the Xbox console, they saw it as a risk to invest in which makes the library smaller or have a bigger crap ratio. Thats what I see wrong with its library

So the reason the Xbox got so many great console exclusives such as Star Wars: Kotor, Farcry Instincts, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Otogi, Ninja Gaiden, Chronicles of Riddick, Metal Slug 3 and several more was because developers didn't want to make games for it? Wrong again.


however the other complaints I had were the duke controller and the seemingly washed out graphics the Xbox outputted.

Don't like the Duke? Get a controller "s"(shame I actually had to point that one out). And the Xbox had the best graphics of the last gen, which means they were better than the Gamecube's. You are of course entitled to your opinion but thats the weakest argument anyone has ever made in the cube's defense. Which leads us to.....


However, I think ten years from now, GameCube games will be more sought after than Xbox games. The average John and Jane Doe teenagers and twenty-somethings who are interested in getting into classic gaming will be searching flea markets, Goodwill stores, and the internet for games like:

Baten Kaitos
Eternal Darkness
F-Zero GX
Killer 7
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Mario Power Tennis
Metroid Prime
Paper Mario
Pikmin
Resident Evil 4
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Star Fox Adventures
Star Wars Rogue Squadron II
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Monkey Ball
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Viewtiful Joe
Wave Race: Blue Storm

...all of which are on the GameCube.

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise. As for your list, I like it. But heres one of my own:

Halo
Halo 2
Farcry Instincts
Half-Life 2
Otogi
Star Wars: Jedi Knight Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Kotor
Star Wars: Kotor 2
Fable
Elderscrolls 3 Morrowind
Doom 3
Ninja Gaiden Black
Metal SLug 3
Dead or Alive 3
Chronicles of Riddick
Deus Ex 2
Unreal Championship 2
Star Wars: Republic Commando

.......all of which are NOT on the Gamecube, but are available on the Xbox. It also was really hard to narrow that list down to just 18 titles:)


Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.

If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation(that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.


It's like how in the late 1990s, many people put down the N64 for being stupid and "kiddie," but now, people are looking for N64 games all the time. There's something about those types of games that magically strikes a chord with people ten years later.

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era. The difference is that each of those systems had more games and much better games. The N64 had some great games, but the number of good games pales in comparison to the other systems, especially the PS1.

[otoko]

I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

One of these is not like the the other.

Dreamcast was the first of the PS2, xbox, GCN gen, not part of the PS1, N64, Saturn gen.

I don't know, it seems a large percentage of my fellow gamers who do not partake in classic collecting own or owned a xbox (or more currently a 360). I do own all four of that gen and I think the xbox might be remembered more because it basically was between it and the PS2 during that generation.

I love my gamecube, but it was not a popular consumer system.
Dreamcast died prematurly.
PS2 has a large and great library but no particular "Stand out titles" or that era seems to compete with halo.
Xbox had halo.

heh.

[Richter Belmount]

Your perception is completely skewered if you think the Gamecube had more appealing games than the Xbox
You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/chroniclesofriddick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.



Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

[josekortez]

All hail the 1 2 P for a well-thought out response on that last one.

However, I still doubt that lack of information about the Xbox is what will keep it from gaining the revered status as shown by some of the responses here. I think people seem to believe that the Xbox was only good for ports, which is one of its strengths since I can't think of a multi-platform game that wasn't better on the Xbox than it was on the PS2 or GameCube.

And when it becomes tough to find GameCube memory cards in the wild, the Xbox will still be there ready to play with a seemingly limitless default hard drive for saves (I own hundreds of original Xbox games that I have saves for and haven't seen the bottom of the thing yet, even with several custom soundtracks), assuming you didn't get one with a Thompson drive.

[Gentlegamer]

Ten years from now, I don't think the average John and Jane Doe are going to search flea markets for Chronicles of Riddick, Gunvalkyrie, Crimson Skies, or RalliSport Challenge.Dude, Crimson Skies rulez! I love that game!

[chrisbid]

it will end up like the ps1 and the sega genesis, it wont have the large collector base of a nintendo system, so for manufacturer agnostics like many people on DP, it will be fun and relatively inexpensive to collect for

[Rob2600]

Boat was right about one thing: you are a big Nintendo fanboy that can't say anything unless it's in their defense. And since you can't predict the future, you have no idea what the average John and Jane teenager will be looking for game wise.

You're right, I can't predict the future, but that's what this thread is all about, so I'm just going along with it.

You missed my point. I'm not bashing the Xbox or blindly defending the GameCube. I'm just pointing out how one art/design philosophy has a wider, longer-lasting appeal than the other.

Many of the Xbox games you listed appeal to the video game enthusiast. They're dark, gritty, "mature," and complex. That's fine. They're well-produced games, but they're missing the simple charm and mass appeal that attracts non-enthusiasts. Looking through a box full of old games ten years from now, average people will gloss over Splinter Cell and Forza racing, but they'll recognize Super Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, and Metroid. And even if they don't recognize games like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Killer 7, Super Monkey Ball, or Viewtiful Joe, the cover artwork is stylized and sticks out enough in a sea of dark, gritty, generic CGI that people will at least stop and look at their back covers.

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.


If you think that ten years from now people aren't going to want to play the greatest movie to game translation (that would be Riddick) in video game history--you are obviously off your rocker.

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

And ten years from now, people won't even know what Riddick is.


I have an N64 and it WAS too "kiddie" compared to the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast. And while I definitely am looking for games on the N64, I'm also looking for games on the PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast from that era.

Once again, I'm not talking about enthusiasts like you or anyone else on DP. Enthusiasts collect for many different, if not all, game consoles. We are not the average Joe Schmoe video gaming public.

I'm talking about a twenty year old who, ten years from now, will sift through a box of old video games at a flea market. He or she will probably pass by all the seemingly similar-looking army games and driving games, but will stop at the Mario or Zelda game and say, "Yes, cool!"...just like Joe Schmoe frat boys do today when they walk into a store like Digital Press in NJ.

Why do you think Joe charges so much for a common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

[Chadt74]

Good call on Goldeneye 007! I have yet to play Riddick, but it will be tough to beat Goldeneye.

[Bojay1997]

You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

1.Appeal : I don't think you understand what I meant by the word appeal , Im using that word to say that the games that were on Gamecube and Playstation 2 were MUCH MORE INTERESTING than the games that were on Xbox. In my personal opinion the Japanese developers dominated last generation and pumped out the most and some of the best games. American and Western developers are reaching their peak this generation though last generation seems rather bleh and mundane to me.

2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/chroniclesofriddick/index.html in stores now!

4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.



How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

A couple of points here. There is absolutely no way that the Gamecube is going to be a heavily desired or collected system down the road. Why? Simply because virtually every single first party game released for it is being ported or given a slightly improved sequel on the Wii. Why would anyone seek out inferior versions of the same games? It's the same reason that many people don't collect the Dreamcast. Almost everything that was unique and special about its library is now appearing on other systems in a better version.

I think the PS2 just isn't going to age well from a mainstream playability standpoint in much the same way the Playstation hasn't, although there are quite a few artistic games that will keep the PS2 in the hands of collectors many years down the road. Having said that, I think there are tons of Xbox exclusive games that are artistic as well and have lasting appeal.

Claiming that ports of some Xbox games are available for the PC is absurd. With the speed at which PC specs change and the spectre of OS incompatibility, very few people are going to be collecting PC ports, even if they have slight enhancements over the Xbox versions. Heck, have you tried to collect PC games that are even 8 years old at this point? Anything pre-XP is hard to run without a lot of work.

I'm not sure what's wrong with your Xbox or TV, but there is nothing muddy or washed out in the graphics for Xbox games. In fact, if you do frame comparisons of 99% of the multi-platform games released in the last five years, I guarantee the Xbox version will have the best graphics and color palette of the two or three versions. If you still are having problems, you may want to use the video menu in most Xbox games and make some adjustments to optimize the appearance of games on your TV.

All three systems from last generation have their merits and I will concede that the PS2 will probably be the most collected simply because of the volume of obscure titles, but I expect the Xbox won't be far behind, particularly if the trend continues in this generation where almost none of the Xbox exclusives are being ported or sequeled.

[CosmicMonkey]

I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

Rob wins the thread.

At least the Xbox will be remembered for Xbox Media Center. Surely the greatest collaborative homebrew achievement ever, and it's now available for OS X/Apple TV, Windows and Linux, along with other offshoots like Boxee.

[ProgrammingAce]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

[j_factor]

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

You actually have a good point here, but it applies to Gamecube too. Nintendo "updates" their games with the best of them. Pikmin, Mario Power Tennis, and Metroid Prime are going to be re-released for Wii, and RE4 is already out for it (obviously). Smash Bros. Melee will be dropped like a bad habit when the fourth Smash game comes out, if it isn't already (the original on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days).

Xbox also has plenty of games that aren't going to be obsolete anytime soon. He just didn't make that kind of a list. Consider:

Voodoo Vince
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Tron 2.0: Killer App
Psychonauts
Stubbs the Zombie in Rebel Without A Pulse
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Indigo Prophecy
Kung Fu Chaos
Breakdown
Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon
Still Life
Toejam & Earl III
Sid Meier's Pirates!
etc.

[Richter Belmount]

Super Mario Brothers 3 was multiplatform, shame that rules it out as a good NES game then...

Sic semper tyrannis!!

[Rob2600]

the original (Super Smash Bros.) on N64 isn't exactly in high demand these days

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

[JunkTheMagicDragon]

EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games.
might as well be phasing out gc games. for over a year now, gc games at every local gs have been relegated to a single metal rack glommed onto the wii section as an afterthought (yet the gc game prices are still ridiculously high).

as far as the argument goes, i think you've got a good theory rob, but you've gotta remember 90% of the used games market is nostalgia. who's to say that halo and kotor won't be remembered by the adults of tomorrow with the same nostalgic charm that we view super mario and final fantasy with? xbox games aren't really old enough yet for a proper comparison.

give em ten years.

[Bojay1997]

Then why are people paying an average of $19 for loose Super Smash Bros. N64 cartridges on eBay?

By comparison, the Xbox games you listed - as fantastic as they may be - are selling for below $15 on average.


Again, why do you think Joe charges so much at the DP store in NJ for a loose common game like Super Mario World? Because it still sells.

When regular Joe Schmoe frat boys walk into the Digital Press store, what old games do they look for? Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath? Kung Fu Chaos? Or Super Mario Bros., Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, and The Legend of Zelda?


There seems to be two sides to this topic:

1. Among us DP members/video game enthusiasts, the answer is simple - the Xbox will not be forgotten. Many of us will collect Xbox games for years to come.

2. Among average video game players (not enthusiasts like us), I just can't see them going out of their way several years from now to track down a copy of Toejam and Earl III or Voodoo Vince. They just aren't considered classics like the Super Mario or Zelda games. Again, ask Joe which old titles non-enthusiasts come into the store to buy. His answer won't be Tron 2.0.


It just depends on whether you take an enthusiast gamer's perspective or a big picture/average consumer perspective.


EDIT: Plus - not that I like GameStop - but supposedly GameStop is phasing out Xbox games next month, but not GameCube games. I can't imagine Joe Schmoe walking into GameStop, seeing Xbox games on clearance, and thinking, "Wow, I should stock up on all of these obscure games I've never heard of." But again, I'm looking at it from an average consumer perspective, not an enthusiast perspective.

You're comparing games that are only 5-6 years old and are still readily available in many cases new with games that are 20-25 years old at this point. People aren't nostalgic for Xbox yet just like they aren't nostalgic for Gamecube or PS2. Of course vintage games are going to command a premium if only because you can't find them at most stores that sell games. Heck, does Gamestop even sell anything older than PSX nowadays? Games like SMB or Zelda weren't worth much in the early to mid-90s loose and even now don't command huge premiums considering they cost $60-$70 new in mid-1980s dollars which is roughly what like around $85-$95 today? $19 for a Super Smash Bros. cartridge isn't a crazy amount of money considering that the game never sold for less than $40 new and most people paid $60 for it. It's also the first in the series, a cartridge (which appeals to many people with smaller kids) and you're talking about Ebay which attracts collectors and not necessarily the average swap meet or used game store buyer. Whether you want to admit it or not, with an installed base of 20 million or so systems worldwide, lots of people owned the original Xbox and chances are that 20 years from now, many of them will be seeking out the games they once owned or games they never could afford, just like people do today on the Atari 2600, NES, SNES, Genesis, etc...

[The 1 2 P]

I leave for one night and this is what I come back to??


You ever thought maybe I didn't like the games on Xbox , did that cross your mind so my perception is skewered cause (Shock) I have a different opinion!??

Funny you should say that because I had expected to post this today: both you and Boat obviously do NOT like the Xbox. I know it's your opinion, but no sane gamer could honestly say the Xbox(which popularized fps's, pioneered online gaming and brought it to the masses and made hard drives a requirement, along with having many of the best games of the last generation) is going to be a forgetable system unless they truely detest it. I can't stand the N64 controller but you won't hear me saying it's a forgetable/worthless system. So Boat should have titled this thread "Why I hate the Xbox" because we can all see beneath the thin veil he layed out.


2. Mainstream Games: I recall saying Ps2 no? Plus most of the games 1st appeared on Playstation 2 I didn't really need a port of Gta 3 a game that I already bought. Heck I could have a Ps2 and a Gamecube than I would still have a majority of the releases so no need for an Xbox.

That still isn't making a very strong case for the Gamecube though. If you had to choose just one system last gen and you chose the GC over the Xbox, you would have missed out on the majority of the best mainstream games. That was my point.


3. Ports:The only actual exclusive on that list is Otogi since there are numerous ports of those games on different systems already, even Ninja Gaiden , Fable , Jade Empire , Kotr , Kotr 2 and Halo 2 . Doesn't make me want to go back to my Xbox considering I have other numerous and possibly better places to play some of those games. Though I have a certain affinity of the Snes version of Doom over the PC version. My point is the Xbox was good for ports but there are better ports than the ports on Xbox now in this day and age.

This is going to be fun. All those games were Xbox console exclusives for the last gen. I'm pretty sure I said that before. We aren't comparing consoles to pc's here. We are comparing console exclusives on the Xbox to console exclusives on the Gamecube. I'm fairly certain you can't play Kotor 1+2, Halo 2, Fable or Ninja Gaiden Black on any console but the Xbox(or 360). Yes the PS3 got Ninja Gaiden Stigma, but what did the Gamecube get? So you failed on that one too.


4. Graphics: yes the Xbox had processing power , doesn't mean much to me if its not aesthetically pleasing. I recall the mundane and dreary colored and washed out Splinter Cell. Graphics in a game should be consistent , appealing not dark and muddy or washed out. Something the Xbox couldn't pull off with a regular output yet when it comes to that Xbox is outdone by a Turbo Grafx's sharp color and detail.

Huh? The Xbox was the only last gen system that could regularly output in 720p(for the games that supported it). And wait a minute....did you just say the Turbo Grafx had better visuals than the Xbox:? I'll let everyone else handle that one for me.


5. Cult hits:As for cult hits I think once I step into 1 cult hit for Xbox , I could find 5 more on Playstation 2 for every cult hit that was on Xbox.

Perhaps, but for every 1 cult hit on the Gamecube you could find 10 on the Xbox.


How are you going to call him out without seeming hypocritical?

He knows I love him. And he is a big Nintendo fan. Theres nothing wrong with that. I was just pointing out the obvious.


You're right, I can't predict the future, but that's what this thread is all about, so I'm just going along with it.

You missed my point. I'm not bashing the Xbox or blindly defending the GameCube. I'm just pointing out how one art/design philosophy has a wider, longer-lasting appeal than the other.

I feel you. I was just giving my point of view from a person who has all three last gen systems and enjoys the Xbox the most. But I also like my PS2 and GC.



Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%.

Subtract 6 of those fps's and add these:

Forza
Outrun 2
Hitman Contracts
Fatal Frame 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Crimson Skies

Problem solved.



I thought that was Goldeneye 007.

Let's keep it real. Goldeneye 007 was a phenomenal game.....in it's time. Today it's nearly unplayable compared to all the great fps's we get yearly. It hasn't aged well and can't hold anything on Riddick....except multiplayer:D But the new one is getting that.


Why do you think Joe charges so much for a common game like Super Mario World?

Because he needs the money obviously. I try to get as much for my games as possible too.

Anyway, Boat and Richter just want the Xbox to go away. I'm not sure why but it's their opinion to have. Maybe they are still upset that the new kid beat the Gamecube. It's fine(and normal) to not like a particular system but it helps to have a good argument for that stance, especially on these forums.

[esquire]

Besides, 7 out of the 17 Xbox games you listed are first-person shooters. That's 42%. Ten years from now, how many average people are going to seek out Halo 2 or Unreal Championship 2 when they could be playing Halo 9 or Unreal 15?

That means almost half of the top-notch Xbox games you listed will be obsolete and uninteresting a decade from now...to the average person. Again, not that they're bad games. They're perfectly fine games, but Joe Schmoe won't care about what he considers to be old, generic army shooting game #27 or old, generic driving game #39.

How many of you go back to the first Call of Duty or the first Grand Theft Auto now that the latest versions are out? It just doesn't happen...yet people still seek out and play Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and the old Super Mario games. That's the difference between dark, gritty, complex games vs. games that have mass appeal.

First, just because you do not like FPS's does not mean that others will not have the same disdain for soon to be classics like Halo, Gears of War and Resistance. Doom Collections and Unreal Anthology still sell today because they are still fun to play and there are good memories for gamers whom played them. Same could be said for Call of Duty 2 on the PC, which IMO is still the best WWII multiplayer shooter. Quake III is still played to this day by a strong base of gamers.

Second, applying your logic that gamers will not play an older version of the game when a newer version is out, games like the original Final Fantasy or Resident Evil should not still be popular when there are newer versions out. Yet these games continuously get re-published on each generation and people keep playing them. Again, I beleive your logic is flawed simply because you have a skewed opinion of FPS's.

Lastly, I don't necessarily believe that a majority of the games on your list have "mass appeal" as opposed those "dark, gritty, complex games" that you do not like on the XBOX. Joe Schmoe is not going to be seeking out Baten Kaitos, Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, Pikmin, Skies of Arcadia Legends, Star Fox Adventures, or Viewtiful Joe.

While I agree that games like UT which are frequently updated (as opposed to say a new version of Halo with a new single player campaign) like Madden may not hold their popularity over time, the same could be said of practically every Mario Party or Mario Sport game on each successive console of the future.

Here are some very good XBOX games that people will continue to play on into the future:

Halo & Halo II
Fable
Jade Empire
SW: KOTOR & KOTOR II
Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance II
Crimson Skies: The Road to Revenge
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Otogi
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Psychonauts

[megasdkirby]

I also have to disagree: the Xbox will be remembered for many reasons. It was Microsoft's first actual video game console, it brought many popular games, like Halo (and to think, I never liked Halo...), improved online gaming, provided HDD support, as well as many other features.

For me, I would think the GameCube is the console that won't have fond memories by many. I love the console, and it's an excellent piece of hardware, but I believe that, while it won't be forgotten, it won't be fondly remembered as well.

IMO

[bangtango]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not. Since the comparison is out there, I'll bite. Might as well come right out and say I am an Xbox fanboy.

There are three games that I notice on lists meant to "defend" or "sell" the Gamecube.

-Luigi's Mansion
-Super Mario Sunshine
-Legend of Zelda: Windwaker

Here's what I think.

-Luigi's Mansion can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off, if you know what I mean.

-Super Mario Sunshine may still be fun in places but it ain't a classic and frankly, it has to be seriously considered as one of the worst "Real" Mario games (not counting spinoff crap or the games with lead characters other than Mario).

-Zelda Windwaker may also be fun in places but it isn't anywhere near the top of the Zelda series.


Random Musings

About the Xbox:
-The hard drive, ability to play dvd's and play/burn/rip cd's is useful. Put an original Xbox in Goodwill five years from now and place it next to a Gamecube system. Price both at $10. You'll see which one sells quicker.

As for the Gamecube's Gameboy player, so what? I don't buy Gameboy games to play them on tv, that is like putting a screen door on a battleship. I buy Gameboy games to play them on the go.

[Rob2600]

Luigi's Mansion can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off

You're right, Luigi's Mansion was a fun, polished, yet shallow game.

Instead of Halo vs. Luigi's Mansion, I think a better comparison of launch games would be Halo vs. Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader.

[The 1 2 P]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not.

It was just for comparison sake because Rob and Richter brought it up. I actually like the Gamecube. I have good games for it and I'm still collecting for it. But it doesn't get played much because I have an Xbox(that I can play with other people online) and a PS2(so many good games I have to cetch up to). So I definitely do NOT hate the Gamecube(or Nintendo) but I'm pretty sure that in the future it will be the least desirable console from the last gen. And unlike my buddy Richter, I'm not saying that as someone who hates Nintendo and the Gamecube. I'm saying that as a gamer/Nintendo fan/person of strong common sense. The Xbox hasn't been supported by Microsoft(with new games) since late 2005 and here we are over three years later and I can still play all of it's games online with people all around the world. That won't end anytime soon and it's yet another reason why this system will never be forgotten in our lifetime.

[Rob2600]

I don't see what the Gamecube has to do with whether the Xbox ages well or not.


Rob and Richter brought it up.

Actually, Boatofcar brought it up in the original post:


the Xbox won't hold a place in many gamers' hearts the way the Gamecube and PS2 will.

[josekortez]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

[otaku]

I can see the comparisons to less successful systems. However I enjoyed mine and have fond memories. I'm more worried about the 360 even though it has quality games, because the hardware is so prone to failure

[Bojay1997]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

None of the above. Those were systems which never enjoyed mass success or large libraries. The Xbox lasted for five years and had hundreds and hundreds of exclusive releases, plus the best version of numerous multi-platform titles. Not only that, but it was followed up by an even more successful console which was mostly backwards compatible with it.

[Rob2600]

None of the above. Those were systems which never enjoyed mass success or large libraries. The Xbox lasted for five years

I agree, although technically the Xbox was only in production for four years (2001-2005), not five.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

As others have said, none of these systems are apt comparisons. The XBOX was a highly influential system with a large library.

[jdc]

Man, I've been on an Xbox tear lately. I've bought 63 Xbox games in the last two months. For some insane reason, the console's been giving me a huge case of the warm n' fuzzies. That and the fact that everyone and their dog had used Xbox games on for super low Christmas prices this season. It's funny, but the "grossly gargantuan" Xbox doesn't seem so huge when it's parked next to my PS3. They BOTH gang up to make the Cube look ridiculously teeny.

We play all consoles equally in this house. While I sit upstairs typing this in the office, my son is downstairs, surrounded by various consoles, playing Mario Strikers on the teeny Cube.

[ProgrammingAce]

I agree, although technically the Xbox was only in production for four years (2001-2005), not five.

Just to be a smart ass, i have an xbox with the retail casing from December 2000...

[Rob2600]

Just to be a smart ass, i have an xbox with the retail casing from December 2000...

Okay, the Xbox was only supported for four years (2001-2005), not five. :)

[The 1 2 P]

So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

Thats a good question. It obviously couldn't be compared to those failed systems you mentioned though. I use to think of it as a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast but it has become way more popular and successful than the Dreamcast. But so far thats the closest I can think of.

[ProgrammingAce]

Thats a good question. It obviously couldn't be compared to those failed systems you mentioned though. I use to think of it as a spiritual successor to the Dreamcast but it has become way more popular and successful than the Dreamcast. But so far thats the closest I can think of.

It's a literal successor to the dreamcast, Sega helped engineer the Xbox1.

[heybtbm]

Boy, did the original premise of this thread get twisted or what? Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a mass trolling attempt so roundly rejected as this one...lol. The discussion started out so rational and respectful too. Oh well. The Nintendo Mafia brought their "B" game this time. I guess there's no hate like Xbox hate.

It's a shame they turned the argument into fan-boy hysterics, because I agree with them in part. I think the Xbox was the weakest link of the last generation. Then again...I realize that this is only my opinion and is based on my general non-interest over the original Xbox (not to mention 0 JRPG's). The sales numbers would indicate otherwise (as well as my beloved Gamecube being the real loser).

[bangtango]

Lumping the Xbox in with the 3DO, CD-i and Jaguar is mind numbing.

See, the difference is that the 3DO, CD-i and Jaguar are all widely regarded by casual gamers, bloggers and gaming media as not only a failure but a complete joke. Those three systems may not be seen as a joke by everybody here or on Atari Age but that site and this site make up such a small percentage of the public opinion.

As for the Xbox, people can argue all they want about whether or not the system failed (I don't think it did). Even if someone can present a solid case that the Xbox DID fail, there is nobody out there who can call the Xbox a "joke" and maintain any credibility. Point being, the Xbox is in no way, shape or form widely regarded as a joke to most people like the 3DO, CD-i or Jaguar are.

Furthermore, regardless of where the system placed/finished in the last gen, there are enough people out there who still own and play the first Xbox that this will never be the case.

[The Shawn]

To be honest, the only system Iv'e had hooked up in the last 3 months is my original x-box.

Bye the way, I don't think Twilight Princess will be remembered half as fondly as Morrowind.:hail:

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Bye the way, I don't think Twilight Princess will be remembered half as fondly as Morrowind.

Amen. And I've played both.

[Push Upstairs]

It's a literal successor to the dreamcast, Sega helped engineer the Xbox1.

They did?

What aspect?

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

[Nature Boy]

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

You need proof to validate a feeling? Zuh?

I'm sure for some people it was their adopted Sega system. Not me. I went from being a N64/PS1 owner to being a GC/Xbox/PS2 owner. I did acquire a Dreamcast somewhere in that time period but only after it was already dead.

(The other 5 systems mentioned I was actively purchasing games while they were still being produced. I never bought one Dreamcast game until after the system was no longer being supported).


So, what classic system should people compare the original Xbox to now? The Jaguar? The CD-i? The 3DO? I'm just curious what people think.

Well, you can't compare it to Jag, CDi, or 3DO IMO because none of those machines had a successor. XB1 has the 360, and at least one more future brother in the works.

The Dreamcast doesn't work either, because Sega was fighting the results of the Saturn generation. MS didn't have any such baggage.

I wouldn't try to compare it to anything to be honest. It's a base-line for future comparisons maybe.

[scooterb23]

It's clear to my that if you need to compare the XBox to anything...it's a mid 80's Volvo.

It's boxy, but it's good.

[ProgrammingAce]

They did?

What aspect?

I need some proof to validate my feeling that the XBOX is an adopted Sega system.

Sega wanted to use the xbox hardware for their arcade division. They partnered with Microsoft to develop the hardware. Somewhere i wrote a several page article detailing the whole endeavor.

Here's a prototype xbox with the Chihiro connector still intact. Even on the final board design, you can see the space left behind when the removed the connector.
http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto(11).jpg

[megasdkirby]

-[quote]Luigi's Mansion[/I] can be taken about as seriously as Mario is Missing. The gameplay in Luigi's Mansion is about as deep as Final Fight. I don't care if they are two completely different genres but anyone who thinks Luigi's Mansion measures up to Halo as a launch title should brace themselves because their alarm clock on the nightstand is about to go off, if you know what I mean.

I personally despise Halo, as it's nothing more than a run of the mill FPS. Not that it's a bad game, just don't see what the fuss is about. I did like Luigi's Mansion much more, though it was lacking and it's a simple game.


-Zelda Windwaker may also be fun in places but it isn't anywhere near the top of the Zelda series.

Gotta agree. I thought the game had charm, but overall there was something of a miss...



As for the Gamecube's Gameboy player, so what? I don't buy Gameboy games to play them on tv, that is like putting a screen door on a battleship. I buy Gameboy games to play them on the go.

Dunno about that one. I personally liked the player, as it offered ways to play GBA games on the TV. The Super Gameboy had more charm, IMO, but the GBA player is excellent in it's own right. I found some games played better on the GBP than on the GBA.

But thats me anyway.

[The 1 2 P]

Boy, did the original premise of this thread get twisted or what? Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a mass trolling attempt so roundly rejected as this one...lol. The discussion started out so rational and respectful too. Oh well.

I actually like the direction this thread has taken. Boat gave his opinion and then everyone else chimed in with their opinions. Some of us are more passionate about our opinions than others. I've even went several augumentative rounds with a few people in here but that doesn't mean we respect each other any less. We're just gamers being gamers:)

[Push Upstairs]

Sega wanted to use the xbox hardware for their arcade division. They partnered with Microsoft to develop the hardware. Somewhere i wrote a several page article detailing the whole endeavor.

Here's a prototype xbox with the Chihiro connector still intact. Even on the final board design, you can see the space left behind when the removed the connector.
http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto(11).jpg (http://gamerhistory.com/images/Xbox1Protos/Proto%2811%29.jpg)

So the Chihiro was planned before the initial release of the XBOX?

I never dug into the history of the XBOX to find out about its origins.

[Greg2600]

Microsoft worked for two years with SEGA to make Windows CE the OS on the Dreamcast, also using DirectX. That was in 1998. I have found a few articles about this:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/May98/Segagmpr.mspx
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E5D91338F93BA15756C0A96E9582 60

In 2003, Microsoft announced they were looking to use the XBOX as the new platform for SEGA arcade machines. (Chihiro)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/07/microsoft_preps_xbox_for_arcades/

Therefore, the Xbox existed before Chihiro, because it WAS Chihiro. SEGA, from my googling, did not develop the XBOX one bit. The XBOX runs a custom OS that interfaces with DirectX 8.1. It's highly possible that Microsoft adapted some of what it did on the DC to the XBox. But Windows CE was a disaster.

[ProgrammingAce]

I don't know what to tell you... Sega engineers helped microsoft design the Xbox hardware. The xbox with the Chihiro connector was manufacturered in February of 2001, 9 months before the console released.

The internal Test Harness application Microsoft used from March 2001 - November 2001 had sega assets, including logos: http://gamerhistory.com/games/XDK3910.html

The test harness was used to stress test the hardware during development. The copy used in those photos was taken straight out of Microsoft's hardware testing labs.

The relationship between Sega and Microsoft is something that was considered a trade secret, which is why you don't see much (any?) info on it. Why do you think Peter Moore left Sega and joined Microsoft so quickly? How do you think Microsoft developed a complete console from concept to delivery in 11 months?

My understanding is that there was a small group of engineers from sega that went to the Microsoft campus and acted as advisers. Part of that same agreement is the reason the early Sega titles were Xbox only. Sega disolved the partnership because of the poor sales of their xbox games.

You don't really have to believe me, i could just be some bum living on the streets who pretends to work for microsoft...

[Greg2600]

I take your word for it. Even so, I don't know if I want to consider the XBox a descendant of the Dreamcast or a SEGA system. Far far less than the SNES-CD Sony designed is a precursor to the Playstation. Whatever SEGA gave them, the end result was a different piece of hardware than the Dreamcast. Even your description only sounds like the SEGA people cleaned up the mess for them. Not enough in my book to call it a SEGA system or give SEGA a ton of credit.

[Phénix]

For the moment it's very hard to say for me. There are a couple of games that I absolutely love, the the rest is garbage (for me at least). I loved :
Fable
Morrowind
Kotor 1 / 2 (I'm currently playing Kotor 2)
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Arx Fatalis
Doom 3
Ninja Gaiden Black

I played so many hours on these games ! And in many years they will be as good as now.

But if I compare the number of XBox games I own to those I own on Gamecube, PS2 and Wii games, I don't have a lot of XBox games, and I don't plan on buying other XBox games. There is still many games on PS2 that I want, and Gamecube also.

This reminds me of the N64 ... Just a couple of very good games ! I have like less than 10 N64 games and that's it, the rest doesn't interest me.

[The 1 2 P]

Kotor 1 / 2 (I'm currently playing Kotor 2)

Both are awesome games. I'm trying to find the Japanese import versions so I have another excuse to play thru them again.


I don't have a lot of XBox games, and I don't plan on buying other XBox games.

You're in luck. Gamestop/EB is about to severly discount ALL their Xbox games to try and clear them out for the newer gen stuff. So you will be able to get the majority of Xbox games for $2-8 a piece. If theres ever been any Xbox games you wanted to try--now would be the best time to get them on the cheap.

[TheGam3r]

The XBOX Will be well remembered With Titles Like:

-Halo
-Halo 2
-Star Wars:KOTOR
-GTA:San Andreas
-Project gotham Racing 1 And 2
-Jet set radio future
-SEGA GT 2002
-Panzer Dragoon Otra
-Ninja Gaiden and ninja gaiden Black
-Chornicles of riddick
-Dead or alive 3
-Metal Slug 3
-ToeJam And Earl 3
-The Simpsons:Hit and Run
-Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2X-3-4
-Max Payne
-007:Nightfire
-Splinter Cell

Look At all my favorite XBOX games.This system will be remembered fondly

[hellfire]

lol they will all break

[TheDomesticInstitution]

lol they will all break

You're smart.

[Cobra Commander]

that is like putting a screen door on a battleship..
Screen door on submarine ya' dork....

[Astrocade]

I believe ten years down the road the X-Box will be remembered fondly, but not in the same light as the PS2. The average non-hardcore enthusiast is more likely to have had a PS2 sitting in their living room than the X-Box, and the GC will probably be remembered last.

I've always felt that the X-Box was a better system, and some of the things that it introduced that we take for granted today are not so easily noticed while hindsight is not yet to our advantage. Being the Dreamcast enthusiast that I am, I feel the X-Box is probably the closest thing to a Dreamcast 2 we'll ever see.

The PS2 may have a bigger library, but that doesn't mean the games were better. Of all the titles that received a multi console release, the X-Box version always looked and played better to me. The graphics do sometimes have less color depth than the other consoles, but the clarity is unmatched. I'd rather have Sub Zero's outfit be an ever-so-slight lighter shade of blue than to put up with jerky, polygonal out of frame animation with a deeper palette.

There's no argument as to which system was the most powerful, the guys that claim that the PS2 or the GC were technologically superior are living in some kind of backwards dreamworld. I also don't get the argument that the X-Box is prone to failure- to me it's the most bulletproof system of that generation. I couldn't tell you how many guys I've known that have gone through more than one PS2, while I know of absolutely no one that has killed an X-Box. I myself have gone through two Slims, which is astonishing for someone that logged as little hours on it that I did. The fact that the X-Box was a COMPANY LAUNCH CONSOLE is even more impressive- Sony's had ten years and a previous console to get it right, Microsoft had eleven months. If they would attack their 360 with the same ethic then I would maybe be tempted to go get one. I also despise the crass way that Microsoft completely dropped it like a hot potato when the 360 was announced- it was kind of like being slapped in the face. "So you like our X-Box, huh? Well FUCK YOU! No more games bitch! Better upgrade so you won't be a loser!" That is one thing I think will bug some people down the road moreso than it does now.

The PS2 will also have a larger pool of players to draw remembrances from. The little kids that started playing it when it first came out are teens now. The X-Box was around for what, five years? A lot of players completely skimmed over the X-Box, going straight from the PS2 over to the 360.

The size of the system is not a put off to most players. I personally like a system that looks like it wants to eat your other consoles. I also don't feel like I'm handling a fragile toy like I do when I'm looking at my GC or Slim. It looks like what it is- a dedicated gaming console. One that you can use to play just about every preceding generations games on via emulation. There's a large number of guys that hold onto their Boxes just because they have so many Roms downloaded onto it. PS2 hacking never caught on simply because it was soooo easy to do on the X-Box compared to the PS2, much like the DC before it.

The controllers are some of the best ever made for a system. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Having giant ape hands, I much prefer the original "Duke" to just about anything in the last fifteen years. The "S" revision is even better. Take that, Dualshock!

One more thing- an internal HD and four controller ports. Fuck your memory cards and stingy two ports, PS2. I actually have more than one friend that wants to play From Russia With Love multiplayer, and I don't want to spend forty dollars on a multitap adapter because you're the first console in years to exclude four ports. Likewise, I don't want to have to run down to Gamestop and shell out twenty bucks on a new memory card every six months. I got everything I need in this big black box that wants to crush you.

One thing I can fault the X- Box for is that you can't play DVD's right out of the box like you could the PS2. But by the time the X-Box came out you could buy a DVD player for twenty bucks at Wal-Mart, so it's not like you really needed one anyway. I don't want a multimedia center either, I want a frigging console that plays games. If I want to watch a movie, I'll do that on the device that it was intended to be used for, thank you. (<<< Insert arrogant Comic Book Guy voice here)

Notice I've been pretty silent about the Gamecube thus far, as it's in its own class. Like ALL major Nintendo consoles, it will be fondly remembered simply BECAUSE it's a Nintendo product. Certain games on the N64 that had a release on other consoles played much better on the other consoles, but everybody remembers the N64 version. Why? Because it's Nintendo! Same thing last gen applies to this gen- it's not a question of GC, XB, or PS2, it's a bout between Sony and Microsoft. Right now, the Wii is off in its own little world while the PS3 and the 360 duke it out.

So between the two, I believe that the PS2 will be the most fondly remembered, possibly for none of the right reasons. I can tell you what I've had the most enjoyment out of between the three, as I'm sure a lot of other people can as well.

It's just like the NES and the Sega Master System, the Master System was hands down the better console, but how many of us are there that rank it as their favorite console compared to the NES? I had both, and I played the NES all day, every day. It was just more enjoyable.

We're busy arguing over which is the better system, who had the best games, whether Riddick was better than Goldeneye, etc. None of that matters a decade from now, when we'll be remembering what we had the most fun playing. :rocker:

[Solertia]

I agree, the Xbox is kindof unmemorable for me, but look where Microsoft is now, Xbox 360 is HUEG!

At least they got it right the second time around. :)

[Daltone]

The Xbox , whilst not bad for its time, really didn't have the impact of the PS2 or the Mario factor of the Cube. Whilst I enjoyed the games on the Xbox a hell than I did than half the shit I played on the Cube, ultimately I couldn't help shake the feeling that the thing was a PC in a slightly smaller box.

[ReaXan]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.
But now to the Xbox….where to begin
Well the Xbox controllers are probably the worst ergonomically designed in the history of modern gaming. Even the smaller ones are bulky and uncomfortable to use for fighting games. The sad thing is that 3rd party designers didn’t even bother redesigning the controller into something more comfortable(The button placement on the XBox blows).
The console itself is ugly as heck, the whole green/black theme is overdone to the extreme on the inside and out of the system (luckily the 360 toned down the green and included some more white on the GUI).
The Xbox only had one killer app and that was Halo. Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.
The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same except for a few like San Andreas where it looked more polished because of the extra RAM the Xbox had. There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.
Xbox Live was cool but wasn’t adopted by the masses until the 360.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Why on earth would you force people to buy a remote to use the DVD Player? That one aspect pissed me off more than anything. With the PS2 you could use a controller and navigate the menus. I don’t mind Microsoft wanting to increase profits but those kind of little things piss off the consumer especially when the competition doesn’t make you buy a remote kit.
On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.

The XBox I swear has some kind of curse on it where you could never get your money's worth investing in it and that trend still continues to this day. The XBox had nothing charming about it compared to the PS2 and even the Gamecube.

[Push Upstairs]

So I can pay $20 *once* to watch DVD's on an Xbox, or I can pay $25 to save my games on a memory card, only to buy more when that fills up.

[Bojay1997]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.
But now to the Xbox….where to begin
Well the Xbox controllers are probably the worst ergonomically designed in the history of modern gaming. Even the smaller ones are bulky and uncomfortable to use for fighting games. The sad thing is that 3rd party designers didn’t even bother redesigning the controller into something more comfortable(The button placement on the XBox blows).
The console itself is ugly as heck, the whole green/black theme is overdone to the extreme on the inside and out of the system (luckily the 360 toned down the green and included some more white on the GUI).
The Xbox only had one killer app and that was Halo. Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.
The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same except for a few like San Andreas where it looked more polished because of the extra RAM the Xbox had. There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.
Xbox Live was cool but wasn’t adopted by the masses until the 360.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Why on earth would you force people to buy a remote to use the DVD Player? That one aspect pissed me off more than anything. With the PS2 you could use a controller and navigate the menus. I don’t mind Microsoft wanting to increase profits but those kind of little things piss off the consumer especially when the competition doesn’t make you buy a remote kit.
On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.

The XBox I swear has some kind of curse on it where you could never get your money's worth investing in it and that trend still continues to this day. The XBox had nothing charming about it compared to the PS2 and even the Gamecube.

If you can't tell the difference in detail between Xbox and PS2 games, let alone the speed at which a character can move within a 3D environment, there is something seriously wrong with you or maybe your TV. As outlined in many posts above, there are tons of Xbox exclusive games, including both Halo and Halo 2, Dead or Alive 3, KOTOR 1 and 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc...as well as dozens and dozens of others. I personally love the Xbox controller, both the large Duke and the later S version. It is very similar to the feel of the Dreamcast controller and just works perfectly for FPS games. As for the DVD issue, by 2001 when the Xbox came out, DVD players were pretty common in many households in the US and Microsoft ultimately decided to cut the cost of the license fee out of the base console and leave it as an option for those who wanted it. I personally can't imagine ever using any console as a DVD player, so it didn't really bother me.

[Rob2600]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.

Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?

[ReaXan]

So I can pay $20 *once* to watch DVD's on an Xbox, or I can pay $25 to save my games on a memory card, only to buy more when that fills up.

Solid argument I will give you that one



If you can't tell the difference in detail between Xbox and PS2 games, let alone the speed at which a character can move within a 3D environment, there is something seriously wrong with you or maybe your TV.

I don’t remember mentioning anything about game speed. I know the Xbox is technologically better than the PS2 but it isn’t some mind blowing difference


As outlined in many posts above, there are tons of Xbox exclusive games, including both Halo and Halo 2, Dead or Alive 3, KOTOR 1 and 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc...as well as dozens and dozens of others.

While this is correct the PS2 still had more exclusive games on it then the Xbox, the Xbox would also usually get a later release for some games than the PS2 or none at all.


I personally love the Xbox controller, both the large Duke and the later S version. It is very similar to the feel of the Dreamcast controller and just works perfectly for FPS games.

You in a small minority of people who like the Small Xbox controller let alone the Duke. The Xbox controller was not in the same league as the Dreamcast controller and should not be mentioned in the same breath. Even the Gamecube controller was much better


I personally can't imagine ever using any console as a DVD player, so it didn't really bother me.

So you mean to tell me you prefer the hassle of switching between a DVD player and say a XBOX360 when the 360 can play DVD’s? Whatever rocks your boat I guess


Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?

While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

[Rob2600]

I still consider the Nintendo64 as probably the console that will go down in history as the one that aged the worst in a short period of time.


Not the RCA Studio II, Bally Astrocade, or Magnavox Odyssey 2?


While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

I think N64 games like Wave Race 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Rayman 2, Sin and Punishment, etc. have held up quite well.

[Bojay1997]

Solid argument I will give you that one




I don’t remember mentioning anything about game speed. I know the Xbox is technologically better than the PS2 but it isn’t some mind blowing difference



While this is correct the PS2 still had more exclusive games on it then the Xbox, the Xbox would also usually get a later release for some games than the PS2 or none at all.



You in a small minority of people who like the Small Xbox controller let alone the Duke. The Xbox controller was not in the same league as the Dreamcast controller and should not be mentioned in the same breath. Even the Gamecube controller was much better



So you mean to tell me you prefer the hassle of switching between a DVD player and say a XBOX360 when the 360 can play DVD’s? Whatever rocks your boat I guess



While those did age pretty bad the N64 is unplayable to me at this point.

Actually, to someone who plays lots of FPS games, the Xbox was a mind-blowing difference over the PS2. In fact, I can't stand a single FPS on the PS2 because it just can't pull them off. I also defy you to point to a single example of a multiplatform game that was better on the PS2 than the Xbox. While the PS2 might have had a larger library and probably more exclusives, I don't think it necessarily had more great games than the Xbox. I think they both had a handful of really great games and a number of good ones.

I think you're wrong on the controller issue. I have lots of friends that love the original Xbox controller. Of course, I'm 6'1" with fairly big hands and many of my friends are pretty big guys, so I suppose it might be different if I was a little guy.

I have a nice Blu Ray player and home theater system attached to my 42" LCD Flat Panel. I have no interest in using a game console to play movies. It puts extra wear on the console and doesn't perform at the same level as a stand alone player. In the Xbox days, I owned several DVD players and I had zero interest in using either my PS2 or Xbox for playing movies. I suspect most people felt the same way as other than Japan, I don't think any major survey ever showed that a significant number of people in the US were using the PS2 or Xbox as their primary DVD players.

Just because you don't like the Xbox or the N64 doesn't have anything to do with the topic of this thread. Obviously, lots of us have good memories of both systems and will pass those memories along to the next generation of collectors. Heck, the millions of people who spent hours playing Halo and Halo 2 will guarantee that the Xbox maintains a prominent place in the history of consoles whether you like it or not.

[backguard]

speaking of controllers - i found a (new) "limited release japanesse style" xbox controller the other day. apparently it was released between the complaints about controller size and the official switch to smaller controllers.

but that first controller was PAINFUL to use after even 20 minutes. i do have small hands though.

[Astrocade]

On a side note it seems that the Xbox is almost a worthless piece of equipment to the masses these days even though GameStop is still charging 50 bucks for it and is about to discontinue it. That toppled with the fact that only about 40-50 percent of the library of Xbox games works on the 360.
I am having problem’s selling mine on Craigslist even though I have discounted it many times and no one on here even wanted to buy it.


The reason that Gamestop (and I'm no Gamestop fan at all) still charges fifty dollars for a console that has been dead for over two years should tell you something. They sell Gamecubes for thirty dollars and PS2's for forty- and the PS2 is still a "current" console! A lot of people that own a 360 are keeping their original Xbox- they're not winding up being thrown out. That has to due with a lot of different issues, from people that have sot mods and massive game libraries downloaded, or emulators, etc; or the guys that realize some of their old games will not play on the 360. Original Xboxes still sell for a premium price because people are willing to pay it. The people that want an X Box don't have twenty million used consoles floating around like people looking to buy a PS2 or a GC.

One reason that you may have trouble selling your console on Craigslist may be the price. How much are you asking for it? Nobody is going to pay you anything near what Gamestop charges for a used X Box. If you're selling your X Box for forty five dollars, and Gamestop is selling one for fifty, who's going to risk saving five dollars by buying an X Box from some stranger that they have to meet up with some where and hope that the system works? Gamestop guarantees that the console is going to work, and if not you get your money back or an exchange. Can you offer the same thing?

If I'm buying something on Craigslist, I'm not going to put more money into it than I can afford to lose. I buy everything with the understanding that it's probably not going to work. That way, if I get ripped off I'm not going to punch a brick wall.

If you're selling a console on Craigslist, you have to price it so low that someone wouldn't consider trying to get it from a store. Or if it's a classic, rare system you can pretty much price it how you want. For an example: Yesterday I bought a Gamecube, two wired controllers, one Wavebird wireless, and Mario Kart Double Dash for twenty dollars. The guy said that he's had it on Craigslist off and on for a year. I asked him why so long and he said that he originally priced it at 100.00. Gradually he dropped it down to 20 bucks and I was the first person to contact him. I told him that I was mainly buying it for the Wavebird and MK: DD, so the console was negligible. He probably would have made more money splitting up the goods. But even at twenty bucks, what if none of the stuff worked? The controllers and the game work fine, but I haven't tested the console yet. He didn't throw in the AV cable anyway so if I didn't have a GC already I'd have no way of testing it. That's the trap you walk into buying consoles from guys that want to meet up with you in the mall parking lot- you're taking a gamble.

As to why you weren't able to sell your X Box on here, we're a video gaming community. Everybody here that wants an X Box already owns one. If it was a Neo Geo or a Fairchild, you would have better luck selling it here than you would on Craigslist, where it wouldn't be appreciated outside of a non-gaming crowd. If you're selling a common console that has to be shipped, you would do better selling it locally to a casual gaming crowd.

There are "soft" and "hard" sells. A thirty dollar X Box on Craigslist with a ton of games is a "soft" sell. A fifty dollar X Box with a bunch of games is a "hard" sell.

[The 1 2 P]

Since several others have already deflowered the majority of your augument I'm only going to tackle these few things.


Almost every game that came out on the XBOX came out on the PS2 as well.

Yeah, I totally loved the PS2 versions of Farcry, Star Wars: Kotor 1-2, Chronicles of Riddick, Fable, Jet Set Future, Otogi, Ninja Gaiden and the other 100+ exclusives. But those PS2 versions must be SUPER rare because I've never seen them.


The hardware inside the Xbox was only marginally better than the PS2, most games looked almost the same

They looked the same? Then how come in the PS2 version of the Blade 2 game Blade didn't wear his trench coat during game play like he did in the Xbox version? Oh I remember, because the PS2 wasn't powerful enough to display a trench coat on him. As an interesting side note, did you know that Doom 3, Farcry, Half-Life and Chronicles of Riddick(among a few others) were all suppose to be multiplatform games too? I mean, why wouldn't you won't to be on the console leading PS2? So what happened and why didn't they have PS2 ports? Um....because the PS2 wasn't strong enough to handle ANY of them. It's that simple.


There was no real reason to buy the Xbox over the PS2 except for Halo.

And once again we see an example of why drugs should not be legalized, because they make you say nonsensical stuff like that. Seriously though, 90% of this thread is filled with reasons you should buy an Xbox. The other 10% are common sense if you are a true gamer.

[otoko]

And once again we see an example of why drugs should not be legalized..


It's stupidity that causes stupid answers.. not drugs.

[ReaXan]

And once again we see an example of why drugs should not be legalized, because they make you say nonsensical stuff like that. Seriously though, 90% of this thread is filled with reasons you should buy an Xbox. The other 10% are common sense if you are a true gamer.

I guess the bottom line is that alot of people have fond memories of the XBox. I am not advocating the XBox is trash, it just stayed at a premium price used for so long I couldn't find any titles that justified me getting one until last August when it was 60 dollars at Gamestop. Alot the titles I could play on the XBoX I could also play on my more powerful PC(Doom 3,KOTOR). The exception to this was Halo and a few others.

I still stand firm on the fact that the controller wasn't very good. I guess people with huge hands apreciated it but as someone who has medium sized hands it was hard to use in action intensive games. For RPG's it was fine. I still think people would prefer the Gamecube controller if they had the choice. I think alot of my points had merrit and arent drug induced by any means :)

I didn't have a positive experience with the XBox as some did so I will admit that is my bias.

[bangtango]

The reason that Gamestop (and I'm no Gamestop fan at all) still charges fifty dollars for a console that has been dead for over two years should tell you something. They sell Gamecubes for thirty dollars and PS2's for forty- and the PS2 is still a "current" console! A lot of people that own a 360 are keeping their original Xbox- they're not winding up being thrown out. That has to due with a lot of different issues, from people that have sot mods and massive game libraries downloaded, or emulators, etc; or the guys that realize some of their old games will not play on the 360. Original Xboxes still sell for a premium price because people are willing to pay it.

That and an Xbox is more convenient. The second you bring it home and hook it up, you're done. Buy a PS2 or Gamecube and it is one memory card after another and those things sure as hell ain't cheap if you're looking for a first party card (particularly a brand new one).

As for the dvd thing, I don't understand buying a console to be your primary dvd player. About people who say it saves space and space is a premium, they need to cut the crap because it is a big charade. Half the people who claim to be all about "saving space" and say they don't have the room for a regular dvd player and a couple video game consoles (360/XBox 1), you know damn well they have stacks of old Magic Cards or Todd McFarlane figures piled to their ceiling and thus they don't really have room to talk.

Same goes for a lot of people who have such a hard-on for backwards compatibility. Get rid of the stacks of Magic Cards, 50-100 model airplanes, 50-100 beanie babies along with all of the other junk in your bedroom (or game room) and you'll have "space" for a measly $50 Xbox, a 360 and a dvd player in the same room.

[Daltone]

Am I going spastic or are Halo, Halo 2, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, the majority of the good stuff (although I use that term loosely around Halo 2's single player), available on the PC?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Am I going spastic or are Halo, Halo 2, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, the majority of the good stuff (although I use that term loosely around Halo 2's single player), available on the PC?

You're absolutely right. In fact, I'm sure a lot of the PC versions have better graphics too. But this happens to be a console-centric message board, and quite a few people here would rather not fuck with PC's for gaming.

[Rickstilwell1]

I can't say it will be forgotten. My opinion on the last generation of consoles is that there were so many good games for all 3 systems that you couldn't do without any of them if you were really into video games.

I don't think there were ever 3 systems so neck to neck in success at the same time before. I'll explain:

We all know that Atari was pretty much the king back in the day. Then that throne was replaced by Nintendo as soon as it came out. After the market domination we remember that Sega stepped up a second time and started the true competition.

SNES and Genesis were always close but the other competitors that came and went such as TurboGrafx-16, Jaguar, 3DO and Neo Geo were so far behind in sales because of high price tags or smaller amounts of games. So there were just 2 really popular systems there.

Playstation was a booming success and Nintendo 64 was doing well, but then Saturn sales were not the best. Saturn wasn't available in all stores. Just some. Some stores chose to make a section to keep selling SNES and Genesis alongside N64 and PS1 rather than clearing a space for Saturn. So again, you have only 2 major competitors.

It's because of things like marketing problems that I didn't have any of these lesser known competitors until the past couple years.

Dreamcast was a good intro to the last gen, but it dropped out too soon to run beside PS2, Xbox and Gamecube, making it act more like it was a replacement for Saturn rather than a system meant for running in the generation we are talking about. All 3 of our systems in this generation were readily available at any common store that sold video games. All 3 had good varieties of games and a very large amount of titles.

I'll tell you why I bought an Xbox. Remember Oddworld 1 & 2 for Playstation? I loved those games, and when Munch's Oddysee for Xbox was announced I was disappointed that they had to switch platform brands, making it so I couldn't just play the whole series on a PS2. I already had PS2 and GC thanks to favorite series continuing on them. There were many times I bought new systems just because there was a game on it that was part of a series I liked. Sonic the Hedgehog was notorious for that. I pretty much only bought a Virtual Boy because of wanting to play the Wario game and the 2 Mario games.

So yeah, you can blame that funny blue Mudokon, Abe for my interest in the original Xbox. If it weren't for the Oddworld team switching like that, I probably wouldn't have tried hunting it down until a little later. I keep 2 Xboxs myself. One for playing actual Xbox games, and one hard modded for just playing roms.

[Rickstilwell1]

So I can pay $20 *once* to watch DVD's on an Xbox, or I can pay $25 to save my games on a memory card, only to buy more when that fills up.

And that is exactly the reason why I bought a PS3 when it was fairly new and was PS2 compatible. All because of that, you will almost never catch me using my PS2 system again, unless I want to cheat with Action Replay which doesn't seem to work on PS3. And after I'm done I always transfer my save to the PS3 hard drive with the memory card adapter. I'm hardly using my PS3 as a true PS3. I'm using it as more of a hardware boost for my favorite old Playstation 1 & 2 games to be used with. When games become used and prices are dropped, that's when I'll rush to the new generation's games.

I always do that unless something I really really want comes out. I concentrate on cheap old stuff first, so by the time I get to the newer stuff it will be cheap too.

I wish Nintendo would have made a hard drive, maybe as an optional accessory to the Wii and allowed GameCube files to be transferred to it. But at least I don't have 70 GC games like I do for PS2. I usually go for Nintendo for their trademark character series or exclusive RPGs over anything else. So the memory card issue isn't as bad for me yet.

[roushimsx]

Am I going spastic or are Halo, Halo 2, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, the majority of the good stuff (although I use that term loosely around Halo 2's single player), available on the PC?

Nah, there's still plenty of good-to-great games that aren't available on PC and are better than releases on the other consoles. For the first person shooters and RPGs (better controls, more content, etc), I'd rather play them on the PC, but when it comes to stuff like the Splinter Cell and Tomb Raider games (Anniversary and Legend), I'll take the Xbox versions instead any day of the week (analog movement? Yes, please).

Even with the first person shooters available on PC, sometimes the Xbox version has additional goodies. Ghost Recon and its expansions received a significant graphical overhaul, Doom 3 had co-op, Half Life 2's autoaim changed the play of the vehicle segments to make them much faster paced, Operation Flashpoint Elite was a complete overhaul of Operation Flashpoint, etc.

2009 and still loving the hell out of my Xbox. Not loving the hell out of Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, but that's to be expected with an Ubisoft Shanghai game. Thank god they didn't do the Xbox versions of Double Agent or Ghost Recon 2.